I would like your opinion on the TAKS Test. (public school, live)

[slonga]

Originally Posted by slaleman

And this is why people who don't understand the educational process shouldn't be deciding what goes on in the classroom......

Yes, unless you are part of the 'educational process elite' you cannot decide how we educate our kids. You become chief member of the 'educational process elite' if you have a useless Ph.D. in education.

Originally Posted by slaleman

they see this type of activity as pointless, when what it is really doing is stimulating critical and creative thinking skills instead of creating zombies who can only recite back what is told to them. These are the kinds of things great teachers do all the time...

Yes but I would rather that my zombies be proficient in english comprehension and math - with a touch of Shakespeare thrown in for good measure. I am sure that the critical skills and creative thinking of your zombies will help them well in all the wonders of rap music creation or other such chosen creative endeavors.

Holy moly do we screen these people before we let them near our kids.

[slaleman]

Originally Posted by slonga

American kids are the most UNDERTESTED I have ever met. I have educated my kids in 3 countries (2 European and here). I would be happy to show you the levels of examinations that are standard in all of the European countries. My eldest child had to complete over 40 hours of examination over 2 weeks, not like the simple TAKS tests.

My beef with Teachers is that most refuse to accept that NCLB and the TAKS test, albeit imperfect, have been good additions and have helped to provide some accountability to our schools. This rejection of testing appears to be based on ideology and not what is inherently in the best interest of the kids.

So who is to blame that children are uninterested in education? Education starts at home, so how do you hold teachers at fault for attitudes that kids bring to school?

Is it seriously in the best interest of students to put such high stakes on a single test that students stress out about it for the days and weeks leading up to it? How does that make a positive testing environment? How can a student possibly be expected to do their best with everything riding on a single day...or in the case of TAKS four days (at most) out of the school year? We don't grade students that way...why should our teachers, students and schools be judged that way?

And I teachers don't have a choice in accepting or rejecting NCLB. NOBODY ASKED THEM, and that's where the problem is. Yes, it has brought about change, but is that change really what our schools needed? Maybe some of the needed accountability, but have you seen the accountability system? Have you seen how schools are judged? Did you know that some students count more than others, and how is that fair to the teachers and schools?

[slaleman]

Originally Posted by slonga

Yes but I would rather that my zombies be proficient in english comprehension and math - with a touch of Shakespeare thrown in for good measure. I am sure that the critical skills and creative thinking of your zombies will help them well in all the wonders of rap music creation or other such chosen creative endeavors.

Holy moly do we screen these people before we let them near our kids.

/responding to trolls.

[slonga]

Originally Posted by slaleman

So who is to blame that children are uninterested in education? Education starts at home, so how do you hold teachers at fault for attitudes that kids bring to school?

Good point I do NOT hold teachers at fault. Teachers have a lot to deal with and it is not an envious job......

But that is not a reason for rejecting testing.

[buffy888]

Originally Posted by slonga

Yes, unless you are part of the 'educational process elite' you cannot decide how we educate our kids. You become chief member of the 'educational process elite' if you have a useless Ph.D. in education.



Yes but I would rather that my zombies be proficient in english comprehension and math - with a touch of Shakespeare thrown in for good measure. I am sure that the critical skills and creative thinking of your zombies will help them well in all the wonders of rap music creation or other such chosen creative endeavors.

Holy moly do we screen these people before we let them near our kids.

It's the critical and creative thinking skills (as in critical thinking AND creative thinking, not as in critical skills and creative thinking) that the students need and that are lacking. These are the skills students should have to get past that ubiquitous McDonald's job and instead go into fields that require one to be able to actually think instead of just do something by rote - fields such as architecture, engineering, etc. Certainly creativity would help in rap music creation as well as all types of music and art, but creative and critical thinking lend themselves well to other fields. The tests that you are touting from other countries generally include an emphasis on how to process and analyze information; TAKS does not focus on this. The example prompts you posted

Originally Posted by slonga

Robert Frost – a poet of sadness?”
Write an introduction to the poetry of Robert Frost using the above title.
Your introduction should address his themes and the impact of his poetry on you as a reader. Support your points with reference to the poems you have studied.
The Poetry of T.S. Eliot – a personal journey.
Write a personal response to the poems by T.S. Eliot on your course. Support your points with reference to the poetry on your course.

would NOT be addressed by the skills covered and emphasized on TAKS. I'm sure you have made yourself aware of the actual content of TAKS for each grade level and subject area, so I'm certain you would notice the disparity. Should TAKS continue in its present form, we would have fewer students who could respond to these types of questions rather than more students who could.

No one is saying that we shouldn't teach math skill application, reading comprehension skills, or writing (or, goodness, fixing what was apparently a HUGE lack of emphasis on spelling and grammar skills in the education of some); rather, the point is that the emphasis placed on TAKS leaves little or no room for anything else. In a low-income district? That would be absolutely NO room for anything else. You teach 4th grade and make the silly assumption that because the TEKS show you should be teaching Social Studies and you know that 4th grade is a wonderful year for it because it is Texas History? Too bad. Maybe you can do that after TAKS. You want to do an integrated unit? Nope, not enough time. You want to take 5 minutes once a week to do a logic puzzle with your kids to help them with their thinking skills (which should logically help them with reasoning which might be needed on the test)? Nope, not directly TAKS-related.

[cwh]

I simply do not understand the stress this test causes. We need to stop coddling these kids as they need to realize that people are going to being looking at their performance for the rest of their life. Stress from academia is mild compared to the real world.


Easy tests or tests with no meaning, simply do not measure what students are capable of.

[quest51210]

been there and still doing that. nobody ever said it would be easy. anything worthwhile never is. if you can message me your info i would like to get together with you and discuss your issues. i am in the process of a much worse situation with SAISD. i would like more people like you involved.

Originally Posted by winterscorpion

Get involved huh? Does that mean getting thrown out of meetings when you display frustration because no one seems to be answering a valid and intelligent question? Does that mean sending emails and written correspondence to council and baord members only to get nothing in return? Does that mean speaking to the school administration over and over challenging them to prove how this is working? Does that mean joining several school related boards at the local level to try and change the system that refuses to listen to parents? Because if all that means involvement, I've been there and gotten the t-shirt. Unless you are a political powerhouse they can and will shut the door inyour face everytime. Hence this forum. Its voting time again folks......thats how we really get involved!

Perhaps rather that pushimng Involvement, you could propose some valid ways to do so, starting with something a simple man like me could do that would have a definate effect on this BS.
Winter.

[winterscorpion]

Originally Posted by Montirob

Why? My class (honors English) had already completed all of the "standard" curriculum. What should be taught in English? Diagramming sentences? Done. Learning vocabulary we would only see on the SAT test (with a little Latin thrown in)? Done.

So what does talking about advertisements have to do with English? Well, we deconstructed them. We examined how they used language to manipulate opinions. We noted things that were implied but not said so as to be legal. So how does this help us in the "real world"? Well, we were able to take the lessons and apply it to examining propaganda. We were able to write more persuasive essays. I guess you could say we learned how to examine things - a highly useful skill in my opinion.

Oh, and by the way, our school was always one of the top producers of National Merit Scholars.

Me thinks you just handed someone a "smackdown" and I dont care whether my grammar is correct.....LMAO!!!

Peace
Winter

[winterscorpion]

Originally Posted by buffy888

It's the critical and creative thinking skills (as in critical thinking AND creative thinking, not as in critical skills and creative thinking) that the students need and that are lacking. These are the skills students should have to get past that ubiquitous McDonald's job and instead go into fields that require one to be able to actually think instead of just do something by rote - fields such as architecture, engineering, etc. Certainly creativity would help in rap music creation as well as all types of music and art, but creative and critical thinking lend themselves well to other fields. The tests that you are touting from other countries generally include an emphasis on how to process and analyze information; TAKS does not focus on this. The example prompts you posted would NOT be addressed by the skills covered and emphasized on TAKS. I'm sure you have made yourself aware of the actual content of TAKS for each grade level and subject area, so I'm certain you would notice the disparity. Should TAKS continue in its present form, we would have fewer students who could respond to these types of questions rather than more students who could.

No one is saying that we shouldn't teach math skill application, reading comprehension skills, or writing (or, goodness, fixing what was apparently a HUGE lack of emphasis on spelling and grammar skills in the education of some); rather, the point is that the emphasis placed on TAKS leaves little or no room for anything else. In a low-income district? That would be absolutely NO room for anything else. You teach 4th grade and make the silly assumption that because the TEKS show you should be teaching Social Studies and you know that 4th grade is a wonderful year for it because it is Texas History? Too bad. Maybe you can do that after TAKS. You want to do an integrated unit? Nope, not enough time. You want to take 5 minutes once a week to do a logic puzzle with your kids to help them with their thinking skills (which should logically help them with reasoning which might be needed on the test)? Nope, not directly TAKS-related.

Excellent Post! Forgive my grammar....Most excellent! I know that ruffles some feathers, but Im not one to care much....lol. Your points are right on the money. Let me know when you run for office as I would love to spearhead your campaign! Like I said, excellent post.

[winterscorpion]

Originally Posted by cwh

I simply do not understand the stress this test causes. We need to stop coddling these kids as they need to realize that people are going to being looking at their performance for the rest of their life. Stress from academia is mild compared to the real world.


Easy tests or tests with no meaning, simply do not measure what students are capable of.

Ok, let me see if I can clear this up for you. My daughters are doing exceptionally well in school. I like to think that this is due to a good home situation and a passion for education. We set the example and they follow. My oldest has been in AP (Advanced Placement) courses since she was a freshman in high school. She is now a senior and getting ready to go to a college (Not sure which one just yet as she is still trying to decide) at the end of this year. I know she will qualify for scholarships and thats going to help me out a bunch. She is currently enrolled in Physics, French, Pre calculus, and many other classes I have no understanding of. When she graduates she will have many college credits already. She is driven and goal oriented. She was recently inducted into the national honor society and she is active in school. Now imagine all these courses, this homework and a passion to do well. This is all fine and good until your teacher says "No matter what your grades are, if you dont pass the test, you do not promote". Can you imagine how that would make a student feel? One person hit the nail on the head when they said that they are teaching strategies related to the test and not related to real life. I concur. My daughter passed her TAKS and does not have to take them this year...thank God! So now my younger daughter is following the same steps. Where they differ is that she is an excellent student, but a horrible test taker. She busts her butt to get the grades she does and studies twice as hard to get them. Imagine how that would make YOU feel if you were working twice as hard as the other kids only to be told you run the risk of failing if you dont pass the state mandated test. Now you look around and see some of the other kids I've made mention of who could give a crap and still progress irregardless of thier work output. Yeah its stressful alright. Guess you dont have young kids anymore do you? Yeah the stress of the real world is terrible, but a child should be allowed to be just that...a child, once in awhile and not have to stress herself out to the point of tears because she is not well versed in the strategies the state wants them to learn. Like I said, its a sham and say what you will, I know what Im talking about. There are ALOT of parents out there who feel the same way and as this thread marches on, I'm sure I'll hear from more of them.

Winter