new idea for relief on 281 ?

[ChrisSA_wxatUIW]

Originally Posted by SAAggiemom

I was told that 100,000 travel 281 daily. 70,000 reach their destination or turn off 281 on or before they leave Bexar County. BTW over 100 Encino residents showed up for the SS presentation last week and they overwhelmingly supported the plan. I checked and no other public meeting are currently planned. I'll post here if any come up. If they find the funding and everything get approved there will several public meetings held to explain it to the public. (according to Councilmen Rowe)

doesn't Bandera Rd have that high of a count also, if not higher??? [they REALLY REALLY REALLY should do something about that too]

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by mmac12

TexHwyMan, while I do agree that better synchronization and the idea of a super-street will work alot better at freeing all the traffic congestion than toll roads,

Well, no, it won't. As even the designer of the super-street plan acknowledges, it's just a temporary band-aid. As I've pointed-out time-and-time again, the ultimate solution for that section of 281 is a full freeway (e.g. a controlled-access divided highway with overpasses at major intersections and frontage roads); in other words, the existing freeway that ends at Sonterra needs to be extended northward. Given the traffic volumes and frontage development along 281 north of 1604, no other solution will adequately solve congestion there for the long-term. The toll road proposal would build that freeway; it would just toll the new mainlanes and overpasses in order to fund the project more quickly. Of course, it could also be built as a toll-free road paid-for strictly by tax funding, but the cost to do it at the moment outstrips the ability of existing tax revenue to fund it in a timely manner, although that may change during this legislative session.

I'm still not sure why people think that a toll road is somehow different from an ordinary freeway; it's just a freeway that you pay a toll to drive on. The 281 tollway wouldn't even have toll booths. So, if the toll road were built and you were driving from the airport north to Bulverde, you wouldn't even notice a difference between the existing freeway south of 1604 and the new one north of 281 other than signs indicating that it was a tollway.

why is it when you finally get past Marshall Rd. where the last traffic light is at Overlook Pkwy, the traffic flows so much freely? Why ... no stopping and starting because no lights. therefore longer green lights on 281 will help dramatically. just my thoughts!!

Because, as heimerswt, pr57001, and SAAggiemom correctly pointed-out, traffic volumes north of Marshall are substantially lower than they are south of there. Traffic volumes more than double between Stone Oak and Sonterra. Nearly all of that extra traffic comes in at the three signalized intersections there, which is why the signal cycles for those intersecting roads have to be longer. It's not the signals themselves that cause the congestion per se, it's the signals in combination with the extremely heavy traffic along lower 281 that is the issue. (And that's not just the case on 281; you could say the same about Stone Oak Pkwy., Bandera Rd., Loop 1604 West, etc...) Here are the traffic volumes along 281 north of 1604 (in average vehicles per day,2007):

• Sonterra: 112,000
• N of Stone Oak: 52,000
• N of Borgfeld: 31,000

That 112,000 vpd at Sonterra is about the same number of vehicles that drive on I-35 in front of BAMC or on Loop 1604 between Huebner and I-10 West.

BTW, there are also traffic lights on 281 north of Overlook at Bulverde Rd. and at Borgfeld Rd.

Originally Posted by ChrisSA_wxatUIW

doesn't Bandera Rd have that high of a count also, if not higher??? [they REALLY REALLY REALLY should do something about that too]

2007 traffic counts for Bandera Rd. outside Loop 410:

• At Wurzbach: 57,000
• At Grissom: 47,000
• At Eckhert: 56,000
• At Braun: 29,000
• At Stonecroft: 38,000
• Outside 1604: 32,000
• S of Scenic Loop: 17,000
• N of Scenic Loop: 12,600

After 281 north of Sonterra, Bandera at Wurzbach and Bandera at Eckhert are the highest non-freeway traffic counts in Bexar County, followed by Culebra just outside Loop 410 (53,000) and San Pedro at Isom (52,000). CORRECTION-- Forgot Loop 1604 at Braun: 69,000.

[mmac12]

then why is it that in the AM rush hour the traffic is just as congested heading south. I do know that there is also a light at Borgfeld Rd. , but by the time you reach it , the traffic is flowing nicely. I do realize that alot of people turn at Stone Oak, Evans and Marshall road but since I head that way often I see almost the same amount of cars that are still heading north and when we pass Marshyall road the light at Overlook seems alot shorter making the traffic free up .

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by mmac12

then why is it that in the AM rush hour the traffic is just as congested heading south. I do know that there is also a light at Borgfeld Rd. , but by the time you reach it , the traffic is flowing nicely. I do realize that alot of people turn at Stone Oak, Evans and Marshall road but since I head that way often I see almost the same amount of cars that are still heading north and when we pass Marshyall road the light at Overlook seems alot shorter making the traffic free up .

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. During the AM rush hour, of course southbound traffic is going to be congested. Did you mean PM rush hour? If that's the question, then it's because of those heavy left turn volumes from NB 281 onto those streets. Or did you mean northbound traffic is congested in the AM? If so, that's because of the heavy volumes of traffic turning left onto SB 281 from those side streets like you said. In either case, yes, the light for through traffic on 281 has to be red longer to facilitate those movements and yes, having to stop for a red light is going to backup traffic. But if there's a light amount of traffic (relative to the capacity of the roadway), then the signals can clear out the queues more easily. But just arbitrarily increasing the green time for 281 means longer queues on the side streets, which then can only be remedied by subsequently increasing their green time (which of course lengthens the red time on 281 again). Do you see the Catch-22 here?

The problem on lower 281 is multi-faceted-- very heavy traffic volumes, heavy left turn volumes, and heavy inflows from side streets, all in a relatively small area. You don't have those issues along upper 281, so that's why things flow so much better there.

[heimerswt]

What do we need to try to make sure this gets done?

Board grapples with 281/1604 interchange funding questions | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News

[Dopo]

Damn, I didn't want to admit that I was wrong,
but I talked to a traffic engineer that has worked in many project in the city and he says that the "Super-Right" or whatever is called would work.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by heimerswt

What do we need to try to make sure this gets done?

Board grapples with 281/1604 interchange funding questions | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News

I think there's enough momentum on this project that funding will be found somewhere. I was a little surprised and disappointed to see that it was the bottom item on the MPO's stimulus funding list, but at least it's there, which says a lot about a project that's only had its genisus in the past couple of months. It likely will be able to get safety funding from the state as well, so there's a good chance that the stars will align for it soon. But if you want to be proactive, contact your city councilperson or county commissioner to let them know you support the project. You can also drop a line directly to the MPO on their website at San Antonio-Bexar County Metropolitan Planning Organization.

[SAAggiemom]

FYI - In case you missed previous presentations and have an interest . . . you might want to attend.


Presentation on 281 “Super Street” Concept

Thursday March 19th, 2009 at 7:00 PM

Roan Forest Elementary School
(22710 Roan Park, 78259)

On Thursday March 19th at Roan Forest Elementary there will be a presentation
to the community on the “Super Street” concept for US Highway 281

This concept for US 281 North of 1604 could potentially decrease travel times by 30-40%.

Please join us for a presentation followed by Q&A.
The meeting is open to any and all interested residents.

[SAAggiemom]

The MPO will vote next Monday (March 23rd) on the Super Street. I sure hope it gets approved and gets started!

[pobre]

Originally Posted by SAAggiemom

The MPO will vote next Monday (March 23rd) on the Super Street. I sure hope it gets approved and gets started!

Link to story on StoneOakInfo.com: MPO to vote on 281 Superstreet March 23 | StoneOakInfo.com