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Unread 05-01-2009, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Austin
20 posts, read 42,531 times
Reputation: 13
Default Real Estate "Investing"

Eleanor
I'm glad I didn't heed your advice regarding the investment value of homes in Texas. I've done quite well-especially considering the relative disaster of my other "investments."
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Unread 05-01-2009, 01:25 PM
 
175 posts, read 98,508 times
Reputation: 97
Look, I really do have to agree with hello's sentiments here. The fact is that these towers were conceived and planned four to five years ago, before the market crashed, before AT&T left, and before there was any serious competition in this market.

Of course, now, all of those variables have changed, and the project is not as successful as developers initially planned it to be. As to the comments about incomes and their effect on the success of projects like these, yes, it's true, San Antonio as a whole does not have the income support base to establish a luxury high-rise haven comprable to the likes of Uptown Dallas or West Hollywood LA. The Broadway is ONE project, and the city's first foray into the luxury condo market, and even it's a failure.

Compare this to sales figures for the new 360 towers in Austin, or the new ultra-lux Austonian, both downtown, and one can see how income disparities effect high-end projects such as these.

So this should demonstrate that SA is not at an economic level to support the continued building of such projects, and perhaps that original demographic research was flawed and overly enthusiastic as to San Antonio's reception of such a project.

And lastly, to those who doubted the serious effects of AT&T's departure to Dallas need only look at the failure of this project. In these economic times, it's hard to sell a 1,500 sq/ft condo for $600,000 when decent-sized homes can be found at the same price in Alamo Heights (especially considering that supply now exceeds demand in that neighborhood). The fact of the matter is that, AT&T, and it's high-paid executives were kind of a "cushion" for this project, as they were one of the largest employers of people living in the '09/'12. Now, they're gone.

SA does not have large numbers of people coming here that can afford a $500,000 property, and those that do are more likely to consider a single family home over a small condo. This project has some major hurdles to overcome, and the recession isn't making that feat any easier.

Last edited by L3XVS; 05-01-2009 at 01:40 PM..
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Unread 05-01-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Austin
20 posts, read 42,531 times
Reputation: 13
Default Towers

How has the project done? I live in Austin and there are more new high rises than you can count downtown. I have not been back to San Antonio lately but I can't imagine there are nearly as many new buildings there. That being said, I would suspect a city of San Antonio's size could support a few new high rises. I grew up in Alamo Heights and I don't think there has been a new high rise there since before I was born. That is a long time.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 01:46 PM
 
175 posts, read 98,508 times
Reputation: 97
There has been no condo/tower development in SA since the Patterson, until now. Again, it all comes back to economics and Austin has a larger base of people with incomes to support such growth, not to mention a more developed downtown and more attractions near these towers than just a Central Market. I mean, was that really the main draw to these places (outside the fact that it's in AHISD), that they were close to a Central Market?
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,286 posts, read 1,647,543 times
Reputation: 783
Hmmm, I'm going to disagree with you on a few points...

Quote:
Originally Posted by L3XVS View Post
Austin has a larger base of people with incomes to support such growth,
Yes, Austin has higher overall income levels, but cost-of-living factors cut into that margin. Rather, I think it's more that the people here with those incomes are more of the family-type, for whom a single-family detached dwelling makes more sense than a high-rise condo. In Austin, the people who have those incomes consist of more young, single professionals, for whom a high-rise condo is more their style.

Quote:
not to mention a more developed downtown
Seriously?

Quote:
and more attractions near these towers than just a Central Market. I mean, was that really the main draw to these places (outside the fact that it's in AHISD), that they were close to a Central Market?
That's kind of a boneheaded statement. This tower wasn't marketed as being near attractions; it's in a midtown location, not downtown. The condo projects in downtown San Antonio, on the other hand, do fit that bill. Let's compare apples to apples please.

Quote:
There has been no condo/tower development in SA since the Patterson, until now.
Actually, the Patterson was built ca. 1984; the Towers at Park Lane (formerly USAA towers) were built ca. 1989.

Last edited by TexHwyMan; 05-01-2009 at 02:47 PM..
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Austin
20 posts, read 42,531 times
Reputation: 13
Certainly the demographics in Austin are different than San Antonio, but I can't believe there are 10-20X as many likely high end condo buyers in Austin. Those numbers are not feasible. If there were 4 or 5 new luxury condo towers in SA, that would likely be a very different scenario. I know my parents are considering moving into a condo or townhome in the Alamo Heights area. I don't know if they have seen broadway towers yet or not.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:34 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 721,456 times
Reputation: 493
What sales figures are you talking about L3XVS?

No sales figures have been released for The Broadway. So again, what are you talking about?

Also, why do you keep bringing up at&t? The people that left due to the relocation already had homes why would The Broadway's success be dependent on consumers who already own homes? That makes no sense whatsoever. And seriously, do you honestly believe at&t was/is the only company in this city to have high paying executives?

Lastly, if you actually think the Broadway was SA's first foray into the luxury condo market, well, you're wrong, just wrong.

Moderator cut: see comment

Last edited by Bo; 05-01-2009 at 02:56 PM.. Reason: See my DM for details on what was deleted.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:36 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 721,456 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMIgrad View Post
Certainly the demographics in Austin are different than San Antonio, but I can't believe there are 10-20X as many likely high end condo buyers in Austin. Those numbers are not feasible. If there were 4 or 5 new luxury condo towers in SA, that would likely be a very different scenario. I know my parents are considering moving into a condo or townhome in the Alamo Heights area. I don't know if they have seen broadway towers yet or not.
A lot of residential construction where you are is suffering because too much was built and because the cost. The bubble has burst there while its still fine in SA because the market isn't over saturated. Also, do not mistake SA's lack of downtown high rise housing for a lack of downtown housing or downtown housing construction. There are many residential housing projects going on downtown and the immediately surrounding area that are in high rise form as well as mid rise and low rise form.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:41 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 721,456 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexHwyMan View Post
Actually, the Patterson was built ca. 1984; the Towers at Park Lane (formerly USAA towers) were built ca. 1989.
There is also the Vidorra which is in the downtown area and opened a couple of months ago.
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Unread 05-01-2009, 02:53 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,286 posts, read 1,647,543 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by L3XVS View Post
I mean, was that really the main draw to these places (outside the fact that it's in AHISD)
Oh, and one more point-of-fact-- it's not even in AHISD. It's in SAISD.
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