What do you love/hate most about San Antonio? (Houston: new house, buy)

[LiveUrban]

I love the flea markets, anything downtown, real new urbanist developments, thunderstorms, Hill Country, festivals

I dislike sprawl, suburban strip malls, suburban lifestyle. <---- Unfortunately, that's most of San Antonio.

[L3XVS]

Originally Posted by ksan

I moved from San Francisco to San Antonio almost a year ago. I have been fortunate enough to live in wonderful interesting cities all my life and have spent a significant amount of time visiting and staying in London, Oxford, Edinburgh, Paris, Berlin, New York, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, Tokyo, and a small town in Spain near Seville. I have always been attracted to major metropolitan centers for their art and culture scenes, for street life, for good food, for music, for festivals, for above all a strong sense of character.

First of all, welcome to San Antonio. Clearly, you're a well traveled individual.

Originally Posted by ksan

I say all of this to establish that I am not unaware of what's out there; my points of reference are not Waco and Kerville. I have lived a pretty cosmopolitan life. And in the context of all that, I can say gladly and without reservations that I love San Antonio.

I'm happy you've found a place that suits you, however, being just as well traveled myself, and having spent numerous time in far more polished and sophisticated places, several of which you mentioned, I must admit I find your prizing glorification of this place to be both mystifying and discordant.

Why? Because fundamentally, San Antonio, by it's own nature, is so vastly paradoxically opposed to those places.

Originally Posted by ksan

San Antonio has character. Like New Orleans, San Francisco, and Boston, it has something about it unlike anywhere else in the states. It mixes old and new, funky and fine, with a tremendous sense of fun, passion, strangeness, and love.

Unfortunately, the only element of San Antonio's urbanity we can seem to agree on is that, yes, there certainly is not anywhere else like San Antonio.

While your obverse adjective descriptors sound great, I really question the ability of someone, who, admittedly has only been here a year, to make objective, well-balanced, and well-shaped conclusions about the cultural theme, or essence, of a place.

The only thing San Antonio shares in common with New Orleans, San Francisco, and Boston, is that they all are historical cities established under a strong a monocultural heritage -- the French in New Orleans, the Spanish in San Francisco, the Irish in Boston, and the Mexican in San Antonio, respectively.

In fact, I find the most glaringly absent of your characterizations to be that of "passion". In San Antonio, I see a distinct lack of passion everywhere around me.

A lack of passion amongst many citizens to expand their horizons outside the realm of San Antonio and south Texas. A lack of passion to acknowledge and improve the mundane, characterless, and largely sub par art and culinary milieu, as well as the largely culturally uniform festive celebrations. A lack of passion to become educated and possess knowledge. A lack of passion to get the job right the first time. A lack of passion to be on time. A lack of passion for life.

Clearly, we have very different interpretations of this city, as it compares to the other three metropolitan areas you described. In fact, so different, I'm incredibly compelled to ask, "what are you smoking", but that, I think may come across a bit rude.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that people are from here. Don't get me wrong, I loved living in San Francisco, and I love reconnecting to the people I left behind when I go back to visit. But most people I knew from San Francisco were from other places, and it gave the whole city the feeling of a temporary, tourist sensibility. San Antonio has generations of family that leave their marks all over the city. The history is remembered in heirlooms and old homes. My brother in law's Mexican grandfather built the building I work in 50 years ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't having constituent elements, including people and the cultural norms they bring with them, from all over the world, what ultimately makes a place cosmopolitan? Doesn't the definition of that word also signify that a place is free from local, provincial, or national ideals, prejudices, and/or attachments?

Yes, San Francisco may have large numbers of people from other places, and yes, it may be more difficult to find natives, but foreign influences (these can be national or international) are what ultimately make a place aware, accepting, and sensitive to cultural diversity. This is what makes a place worldly. San Antonio is not worldly for precisely this reason.

A disproportionate number of the population (in comparison to similarly sized cities) are native born and bred San Antonians. This provinciality is compounded by the fact that many natives fail to travel extensively outside of San Antonio and Texas, and so therefore lack the breadth of experience to change their viewpoint and mindset to encompass a larger scope of reference.

Yes, there's history and lineage which has left it's mark here, but these are the same families who are born, live their entire lives, and die here without ever gaining a perspective outside of "what they know". While it's great to have a strong history, I also think outside/foreign/worldly influences are very important in establishing a true world class city.

San Antonians, as a whole, seem to overwhelmingly take pride in and embrace a parochial mindset, while showing little interest in learning about or experiencing life outside of San Antonio. I think the word uncosmopolitan is consistent with the cities overarching cultural being.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that San Antonio is down to earth. In San Francisco, New York, London, and a bunch of other places it is never enough for a lot of its denizens to eat or drink at a laid back, enjoyable place. You must find the finest wine, the stinkiest cheese, the best of everything. Give me a break. I love how San Antonio has wonderful food and wine and beer and music and art but doesn't get so snooty about it.

I agree, however, I must assert that if you were unable to find laid back, unpretentious coffee houses, watering holes, and hole-in-the-wall greasy spoons in San Francisco, New York, or London, you clearly were not going to the right places.

I won't doubt that San Antonio does have some culinary gems, many of which are of sort you describe later on in your post. However, from my experience, the number of mediocre, unremarkable places far outnumbers the miniscule number of genuinely appetizing options.

Furthermore, it's difficult to find quality, non-chain restaurants, and the city has more than its fair share of taco diners, barbeque joints, and fast food restaurants seemingly clogging every major intersection, much like the high cholesterol content in the food they serve clogs your arteries.

There's just a lack of culinary diversity in San Antonio, and I don't doubt this is compounded by the fact that many residents are either ignorant of, or unwilling to try different kinds of food.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that San Antonio has a vibrant festival life. Fiesta and the dozens of other gatherings give the city a feeling of passion, of life, of community.

And this is the same guy who's (allegedly) been to Pier 39 and experienced the gay pride parade in San Francisco's Castro district, delighted the eclectic artistic expression at The Great San Francisco Fair, marveled at the breath taking beauty of the Japanese Cherry Blossom festival, and learned the fascinating diversity of the Jewish culture through the Israeli Garden Festival? Not to mention countless other very diverse festival attractions spawning seemingly every ethnic, social, or cultural interest, and you think San Antonio has a "vibrant" festival life?

I personally find that utterly, incomprehensibly astounding.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love the art here. The Tobin Gallery of the McNay Art Museum houses one of the best collections of European Theatre Design in the country. The AtticRep does top notch performances that blast plenty of more established companies in major cities out of the water in their intensity, relevance, and quality. The Museo Alameda Smithsonian is out of control cool. SAMA is cool and striking and fascinating. The new Riverwalk museum reach extension looks gorgeous. The whole River is beautiful and old and fantastic.

Again, this is from the perspective of someone who relished the awe-inspiring performances of the San Francisco Opera, enjoyed endless genres of music at the Herbst Theatre, and witnessed numerous classical and contemporary theater productions at the American Conservatory Theater?

This is coming from someone who soaked up the vast collections of modern 20th century art at the Museum of Modern Art, reminisced your time in Paris at the Palace at the Legion of Honor, with its abounding French antiquities and works of art, and experienced over 6,000 years of Asian history at the Asian Art Museum?

And yet you're satisfied with San Antonio's artistic offerings? Really?!?! I suppose I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by ksan

I LOVE the food. Breakfast tacos at Cafe Regio or Taco Taco, enchiladas at the Blanco Cafe or Picante, fish tacos at the Cove, burgers at Chris Madrid's or the Broadway 50/50, sandwiches at the Sandwich Garden, amazing Jamaican Jerk Barbecue at Willard's, good healthy fare at the Liberty Bar and anything imagineable available at Central Market: there's always something good to eat.

And one can't forget nationally renowned Italian faire at Le Reve, experimental vegetarian fusion at Green, the freshest seafood and most creative hor d' oeuvres at the Sandbar Fish House & Market, or Bourdro's and Pesca on the River, both delicious Riverwalk eateries with a distinctive interpretation of southwestern cuisine.

Yes, there's always something good to eat, but once you've been to all those places, then what? Let's not pretend that San Antonio has the breadth or culinary diversity of New York or San Francisco. There's basically one or two extraordinary restaurants in the most popular of ethnic/national cuisines (sorry, you're not going to find restaurants of the Eritrean, Indonesian, Lebanese, or Armenian sort in San Antonio!). The culinary focus in San Antonio is primarily of Mexican/Latin American origin.

Lastly, if you think you can find "anything imaginable" at San Antonio's Central Market, see the one(s) in Austin! They employ a much greater selection of cheese, wine, and ethnocultural specialties.

Originally Posted by ksan

I LOVE the laid-back bars with outdoor seating, live music, and an open funky vibe. Some favorites: The Cove, La Tuna, Candlelight, the Web House, Beethoven Maennechor, and Blue Star Brewery.

I've been to all those places and came back feeling each were uniquely "dead". They were missing something intangible that defines many of the bars, watering holes, and lounges of San Francisco, LA, Houston, and even Austin. I went in with the highest of expectations, genuinely wanting to enjoy myself, and came away yearning for "soul", and vibrancy, and diversity.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that this is a beer town.

If by, a "beer town", you mean standing shirtless at a back yard barbeque with a Shiner in one hand and a brisket in the other talking about your undying love of the Spurs, I think I'll pass.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that there are funky neighborhoods radically different from each other, like King William, Monte Vista, St Mary's strip, Alamo Heights, Tobin Hill, downtown.

The neighborhoods you describe are radically different, however, as you describe later on, many are not the "prettiest" to look at. I must admit though that they do all demonstrate a distinct personality.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that there are a thousand shades of green and a tropical rainforest enmeshed with the old neighborhoods.

I love exploring via cable car the steep hills and inclines of Nob Hill, strolling the beautiful beaches and enjoying the delicious seafood of Fisherman's Wharf, and having to remind myself that I'm in San Francisco, not Toyko, when mitigating the narrow, architecturally striking streets of Japantown.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that people disagree. I love that there is a vibrant gay community as well as conservative gun-toting cowboys. I love that it's Mexican and German and Texan all at once. I love that you can meet a philosophy professor and a construction worker at the same blues bar. I love that people can't remain insulated from those with different backgrounds. In San Francisco, everyone's progressive, green, and totally in agreement about major political views. I happen to be quite liberal myself, so I felt at home -- but I also felt insulated, living in a bubble. It's not healthy for thought and debate.

If you're honestly suggesting that San Antonio employs a more diverse population in terms of political outlooks, culture, and attitudes, than San Francisco, you must have stayed confined in a very isolated part of the city, rarely having traveled outside of it. San Francisco is abundantly more diverse than San Antonio.

I mean, you lived in the heart of the gay revolution, a city which has arguably the most famous and well-known "gayborhood" in the world, Castro, and you're calling a 500-foot strip of four gay bars "vibrant"?

If San Antonio, being this bastion of diversity, as you claim it is, why is it then so difficult to find someone with a college degree? Why is it so difficult to find people who grew up or have lived outside of San Antonio for any period of time? Why is it so difficult to find visible ethnic minorities, particularly those of Asian descent?

Let's face it, San Antonio, and south Texas are not diverse. They were founded on the laurels of "Anglo"/Hispanic norms, and continue to embrace those ideals today, while showing little interest in expanding that cultural fabric.

You think living in San Francisco is like living in a "bubble"? Try being a middle-aged, single, childless, non-white or non-Hispanic, degreed, Spurs-hating lesbian woman in San Antonio, and tell me you wouldn't feel out of place.

In San Francisco, she'd be right at home. In San Antonio, she'd be more ostracized than a pro-lifer at a NARAL meeting.

Originally Posted by ksan

San Antonio has the funky warehouse artists of Berlin, the mystical stone side streets of Paris, the debauchery and festivity of New Orleans, the quirky flamboyance of San Francisco, and the heat of Mexico City. And yet in San Antonio all these aspects feel more real, less fairy tale, more grounded and even a little crappy. Everything is duller, filled with contradictions, and uglier. It's too hot, too sprawling, too conflicted, and too gritty to attain the kind of cosmopolitan je ne sais quoi that the overhyped, overpriced tourist-laden capitals of culture have. But I even like that.

I agree. But to suggest that Paris, London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Moscow, Rome, Dublin, and the like, are "overhyped", I think is rather curious.

Originally Posted by ksan

I love that San Antonio bumper stickers, in answer to the corporate "Keep Austin Weird" campaign, say "Keep San Antonio Lame." San Antonio is lame. There are crumbling 1920s mansions with people still living in them. There are potholes that can swallow your car. There is a sense of inertia that balks at anything pretentious.

Why would you want to live in a place that wallows invariability and embraces its own backwardness?

Originally Posted by ksan

Good for San Antonio. I love that it's lame. I'm pretty lame. If you're kind of lame, and you like funky, spicy, gritty, strange, lively, festive, laid-back, unpretentious, artistic life, you might like it too.

I certainly don't consider myself "lame", but I adhere to all of those other adjectives. Unfortunately, I do not like it here.

Originally Posted by ksan

But more than any of that, I hate the impulse among so many San Antonio transplants and natives alike to turn a snobby nose up at what is a truly striking, unique city unlike any other. You don't need to praise it, but if you can't recognize something quite special here, you're not looking hard enough. If you can say San Antonio has nothing to offer, you could find the dark side of the sun.

I don't think providing constructive criticism or pointing out the provincial qualities of San Antonio is looking down on it. Yes, San Antonio provides a glimpse into a very unique sub-culture of American history, and is unlike anything else in the US. But it suffers from a bureaucratic, stagnant city government, a largely poor and uneducated workforce, and an oddly placed middle class.

I'm not saying San Antonio is the best place on Earth, but, from someone who supposedly lived in San Francisco, and experienced all that city had to offer, I must admit, I do find the picture you paint to be exceedingly enthusiastic.

However, I'm happy that you've found a place you genuinely love and enjoy. I look forward to hearing more about your exciting experiences, as I can only sit behind the confines of my desk, and read, in awe, of your incredible adventures!

[Bowie]

Based on a deleted post, I want to remind members in this thread of two things.

- It's not against the TOS to post disparaging comments about a place.
- It is against the TOS to post disparaging comments about a member.

The posts that remain are adhering to that nicely.

[Cathy4017]

As a native Texan, San Antonio is near and dear for obvious reasons...the Alamo and the history. I hate the fact that the city has grown up around the Alamo, and I wish that it were located off by itself with the countryside around it instead of crazy traffic and wall-to-wall people.

I hate the traffic.

I love HEB and the great Mexican/Tex-Mex food, though it's been a few years since I've been there.

I miss both of those like crazy here in NM. You'd think that a medium-sized town (for NM) 90 miles from El Paso would have decent Mexican food. If they'd put an HEB in EP, it would be worth the drive once a month for stocking up.

[Buffyfan]

In response to L3XVS post, you are right. San Antonio is NOT a polished and cosmopolitan city, opposite of what you expect in a city. But, this is what it is realistically to regular folks like me. It is a city where a middle class family can afford a very nice home and live in a place with an array of different activities and day trips to the beach.

I love Europe, and spent my Christmas in Rome this year. I would LOVE to live in Europe in the great historical and cosmopolitan cities of the world. But that is not realistic. If given a choice between a tiny flat in the not so great part of London, Paris, NYC, or San Fran (just for the sake of living in a cosmopolitan city) OR choose between a large house AND money to spare to do various things AND go on trips (which we do!) to Europe and various beaches...GIVE ME SAN ANTONIO.

In keeping with the theme of the thread. I love the fact that a middle class family can create a nice life for themselves here in SA. I love the history of the Alamo and the missions, and I love the riverwalk at Christmastime.

[JuneOf48]

To L3XVS (and everyone else):

That was a great reply in terms of depth, care, and insight. I'm sorry you don't like it here. You're clearly a very intelligent, perceptive, and interesting woman, and it'd be great to have more folks like you around.

I think the one thing that ksan and others (including myself) continually stress in our appreciation of San Antonio is its refusal to be pretentious. In fact, it's nearly impossible to maintain that attitude and enjoy this city. In some other thread, I wrote about the political climate of San Antonio, and I referred to it as "liberal" in a sort of Studs Terkel, populist-humanist sense. It's particularly appealing to people who don't need (or want) so much high-price and high-fashion "Culture." (Yes, the upper-case "C" is intentional.) We like our edginess to have a good dose of the low-brow. It makes us feel like we're part of the world rather than inhabitants of some uber-cool and uber-elite enclave.

I do think that "populist" is the key term. And there ain't nothin' wrong with not liking that! It just means that you probably won't be happy here. We like many of the finer things in life, yet we don't like the attitude of folks who need to be "where it's at." (By the way, as a long-time vegetarian, I think that Green's food could be much, much better. I would like to see some finer cuisine of that kind in this city.)

One other thing: I totally empathize with your situation, but your criticism does not come off as "constructive." It comes off as demeaning. You're clearly a very smart person, so you should know that criticizing someone's sense of the "desirable" and the "enjoyable" can get very personal. (What is more basic to who we are than what we value? And if someone disparages the value of our values they are basically disparaging US! I'm fine with that, by the way, but the TOS on this site are pretty specific.)

Anyway, I'm always up for good debate and discussion, and I even enjoy a good fight. So I applaud you for your posts and especially the lovely replies that they've brought out in the regulars and the newcomers. (By the way, I've touched base with ksan, and he/she has spent a lot more than one year in this city.)

[crystamichelle]

I think one thing I dislike about San Antonio is how many people I've met who live here and hate it.

[perticusrex]

If by, a "beer town", you mean standing shirtless at a back yard barbeque with a Shiner in one hand and a brisket in the other talking about your undying love of the Spurs, I think I'll pass.

You almost had that juuust right, except for the Shiner....that's mas high class. Budlight.

[JuneOf48]

Originally Posted by perticusrex

You almost had that juuust right, except for the Shiner....that's mas high class. Budlight.

Bud Light? Where you from?

It's LONE STAR!!! (And maybe Lone Star Light, every once in a while.)

[perticusrex]

Clearly you are more hood than me. You win.