KB homes sued in SA! (again?) (Houston, Dallas: contractor, earthquakes, subdivision)

[wellguy]

We can sit here and judge those people that were given an opportunity to purchase a home for the first time. They were scr.......... .That's the bottom line.
Henry, SAHA, and KB were sleeping together on this project.
I am not in the home construction business but I can say these homes were not built to City Code. The City Building Inspectors were more than likely told to look the other way.
I have been in three of these homes. All three had the sheetrock removed from the floor to midway up the wall. I saw plumbing (sewer drains) that were not put together properly NO PVC GLUE. There were parts of the home wiring that were spliced together only to be a fire hazard. Roofs Leaked, etc. There was mold on the inside of the walls.
They were not built to code. Do you know that most of the homes were built without a back door. What were these people to do if there was a fire and they were unable to get out through the front door? Oh maybe they could climb out through the back windows. WRONG. Those homes were not built with back windows.
These people were taken advantage of. They had a chance to buy a home and get out of public housing, get away from crime, and have a better life for their family. They are not at fault. Just because someone is low income it doesn't mean they are stupid. Imagine the excitement you had when you bought your first home. The excitement overshadowed the faults that were in the home.
The bottom line is they were scr...... and many people made alot of money.

[wellguy]

I forgot to mention all three homes that I went inside had concrete borings in the driveways and sidewalks.

banker -Have you ever seen these homes. Would you even dare to go to the depths of "The Westside"? How many da..... City of San Antonio Building Inspectors do you know?.I know several and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Thats' not very far. How many times have City Inspectors been caught taking bribes from builders? MANY. (I assure you all that there are many many great COSA Employees.)
I guess the homes I went inside (by the way have you?) were torn apart for a little QA QC.

By the way banker- You have a Section 8 house next to you.

Give these people a chance. I have met them and I can say there are some good people who reside there.

[merc11ty]

Originally Posted by wellguy

I forgot to mention all three homes that I inside had concrete borings in the driveways and sidewalks.

banker -Have you ever seen these homes. Would you even dare to go to the depths of "The Westside"? How many da..... City of San Antonio Building Inspectors do you know?.I know several and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Thats' not very far. How many times have City Inspectors been caught taking bribes from builders? MANY. (I assure you all that there are many many great COSA Employees.)
I guess the homes I went inside (by the way have you?) were torn apart for a little QA QC.

By the way banker- You have a Section 8 house next to you.

Give these people a chance. I have met them and I can say there are some good people who reside there.

You're fighting a losing battle here. banker will not be objective enough to see the slightest bit of fault with his builder. He maintains his home is the best built and that many other KB communities are the same. Good luck.

[nrlatsha]

and may the force be with you.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by wellguy

I forgot to mention all three homes that I went inside had concrete borings in the driveways and sidewalks.

banker -Have you ever seen these homes. Would you even dare to go to the depths of "The Westside"? How many da..... City of San Antonio Building Inspectors do you know?.I know several and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Thats' not very far. How many times have City Inspectors been caught taking bribes from builders? MANY. (I assure you all that there are many many great COSA Employees.)
I guess the homes I went inside (by the way have you?) were torn apart for a little QA QC.

By the way banker- You have a Section 8 house next to you.

Give these people a chance. I have met them and I can say there are some good people who reside there.

Totally agree homes should have been built to code. Shoddy construction work is prevalent in all builders. Usually the lower the price of home the more corners cut - like you mentioned no back door. However, $20M to put people in homes is a waste of tax payer money. The reason we are in this housing mess is that people bought beyond their means. If you can't afford to put 20% down on a home, then you shouldn't buy it.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by merc11ty

You're fighting a losing battle here. banker will not be objective enough to see the slightest bit of fault with his builder. He maintains his home is the best built and that many other KB communities are the same. Good luck.

KB does build some very good homes , and they can build some pretty shoddy ones also. All major tract builders have built some very very bad subdivisions. Buy on reputation of the builder instead of watching the home construction like a "hawk" is asking for problems.

In San Antonio many parts of the city has very bad clay soils. Very bad to build on, but we as consumer still buy the homes. However, an educated consumer knows that when you build on clay you are rolling the dice for potential problems. The best way to protect against this is to buy a home with a pier beam on grade foundation. However only 1% of homes are built this way. Why? It is because it is expensive and we consumers typically won't pay for it.

The addage you get what you pay for is typically true. I am a happy KB owner , but I made the effort to make sure it was built right. Do I trust the builder supt is going to catch everything? Hell no. In my subdivision there were 30 homes going up at the same time. There was no way the two Supts would catch everything.

I wouldn't trust a custom builder or any builder as far as you can throw a stick at them.

[rigas]

Originally Posted by joe123456

When it comes to shoddy construction i.e. Mirasol and other subdivisions, the common theme is foundation problems. One way to mitigate a lot of these foundation problems is to build foundations to stricter engineering specifications. What does this mean for a lot of homes in TX and the south where clay soils are prevelant? Pier and Beam Foundations - 20K more than typical slab. People won't pay $20K more for a better foundation and thats one of the reasons why there are a lot of foundation problems.

If I was given an option, I would have forked over 20K more for a better foundation. But I would be in the minority. Pier and Beam foundations are found on alot of commercial construction, but seldom found in home construction unless it is an expensive custom home. In fact less than 1% of homes are built this way which is the best way to built on clay soil.

And we wonder why all builders say water your foundation? Give me a break...build the foundation right. However, no one wants to pay.

i have not really read much of this thread (i have a friend who works for KB in SA so i am sure he has) but this post is not right.

i am a concrete contractor in houston and i know several guys in SA personally. i ask this simple question how/why would you try to build a pier and beam foundation on solid rock? i grew up in the gardenridge area as well as the NW side (went to clark high) and i know the soil (or lack there of) in the area. SA sits on huge deposites of limestone and granite both of which are nearly impossible to drill through.

a simple rule of thumb which i learned as a child growing up in a concrete family (my father has been in concrete since the late 70's and my grandfather started in the mid 50's) is that concrete is only as strong as the ground/soil it sits on. san antonio sits on near solid rock. not like here in houston where we have to build on "gumbo clay/mud". pier and beam is completely impracticle and would cost much more then 20k and would be a waste of money.

most people see a simple post tension foundation to be a "bad foundation" which is also false. or people say "conventional is the best slab you can get" which is also false. it is not a mater of opinion each foundation has its place. in SA and austin a lot of homes are built on steep slopes this makes post tension difficult but not impossible. generally in a case like this a conventional rebar foundation is used.

in the end, yes production builders will look for an inexpensive way to build and if you are buying one then you should be prepaired for this. if you dont want something made for "the masses" then build custom and do it how YOU want it. no engineer in texas will design a bad foundation regardless of builder pricing because ultimately they are the ones responcible if something goes wrong.

cheap is not always bad! expensive is not always better!

[wCat]

Obviously watching a house being built is a good idea....but the bigger problem is the inventory of KB, KAufman Broad, Rayco and Ray Ellison sub standard homes that are already built and will come and go on the market.

It's really a good idea to know the developer of a neighborhood that is pre-existing. More obvious, would be the general condition of the neighborhood considering the age of the homes.

[rigas]

yes watching ah ouse being built is a great idea IF you know the codes, IF you know construction, IF you have even a slight clue as to what is going on. my suggestion is to get a certified private inspector instead. there is not a single builder in teh state that would not allow your inspector in, and if they did DO NOT BUY!

my wife is a custom home builder (and yes i do her foundations) so when we had our house built we watched like a hawk. you would be surprised how many home owners come out to buy a production home with no clue but they still stick their nose in and slow the project down, try to get things changed for no reason or what ever. a nosey homeowner is fine, a nosey home owner with no clue about construction or codes is a NIGHTMARE not only for the builde but the nosey homeowner as well.

[wCat]

Originally Posted by rigas

i have not really read much of this thread (i have a friend who works for KB in SA so i am sure he has) but this post is not right.

i am a concrete contractor in houston and i know several guys in SA personally. i ask this simple question how/why would you try to build a pier and beam foundation on solid rock? i grew up in the gardenridge area as well as the NW side (went to clark high) and i know the soil (or lack there of) in the area. SA sits on huge deposites of limestone and granite both of which are nearly impossible to drill through.

a simple rule of thumb which i learned as a child growing up in a concrete family (my father has been in concrete since the late 70's and my grandfather started in the mid 50's) is that concrete is only as strong as the ground/soil it sits on. san antonio sits on near solid rock. not like here in houston where we have to build on "gumbo clay/mud". pier and beam is completely impracticle and would cost much more then 20k and would be a waste of money.

most people see a simple post tension foundation to be a "bad foundation" which is also false. or people say "conventional is the best slab you can get" which is also false. it is not a mater of opinion each foundation has its place. in SA and austin a lot of homes are built on steep slopes this makes post tension difficult but not impossible. generally in a case like this a conventional rebar foundation is used.

in the end, yes production builders will look for an inexpensive way to build and if you are buying one then you should be prepaired for this. if you dont want something made for "the masses" then build custom and do it how YOU want it. no engineer in texas will design a bad foundation regardless of builder pricing because ultimately they are the ones responcible if something goes wrong.

cheap is not always bad! expensive is not always better!

I'm not going to be presumptuous enough to disagree with someone in the concrete business....but I do want to make one small correction. Not all of SA is built on hard rock. The northern most areas and far NE even have exposed limestone bedrock....but the southern part of the county has more flat sandy loam type soil more conducive to farming. There are other higher elevation areas (Alamo Heights, Terrell Hills, Balcones Heights....etc that are definitely full of bedrock.

You are absolutely correct about pier and beam not being ideal in all areas.