San Antonio should get a NFL team (Houston, Austin: costs, vs.)

[Bo]

Originally Posted by firstclassflyer

I doubt they'll be that high. Even NY Giants (amongst the most expensive markets) with the brand new stadium aren't that high. They even have $1000 licenses (High up but middle of field).
Sure, some of the best seats are 7.5k and10K (and even a very select few) are 20K....but the lions share are 1K,4K and 5K.

With the zero-subsidy by taxpayers that satx56 and I are looking for, those PSLs will need to be unprecendentedly high-priced. If you want the team, you'll get your checkbook out! Besides, it'll give San Antonio bragging rights for having the priciest PSLs. Higher than Dallas. Higher than NYC.

[firstclassflyer]

Originally Posted by Bowie

With the zero-subsidy by taxpayers that satx56 and I are looking for, those PSLs will need to be unprecendentedly high-priced. If you want the team, you'll get your checkbook out! Besides, it'll give San Antonio bragging rights for having the priciest PSLs. Higher than Dallas. Higher than NYC.

I personally, don't have any money issues and would buy my limit immediately (and know many others that will also). I'm quite sure that they'll sell out no matter what. . Those PSL's almost always have great resale as well.

[SweethomeSanAntonio]

Originally Posted by tindo80

It did if you judge it by when it got its team. Its not really accurate to say 'New Orleans of last 10 years has a franchise but SA doesnt', when in fact NO got its franchise in 1967, a time when the NFL was much smaller as a corporation, as were its franchises.

As I said previously, you have to judge with context. Sure, one could look at plenty of cities, buffalo, green bay, NO etc, and say 'hey, they have teams, why doesnt SA', but you must take the NFLs entire history into account. Those teams joined at a different time and remain as legacies.

In order for SA to get a team, the $$$ has to be there, and it just isnt. Never was.



Yes, but you must look at when they got their respective teams, and how much money each team brings in.

Also, Texas isnt like california with football. The coyboys are damn near a religion, everywhere, even in Houston.

Also, as I said above, economically, business wise, and logically, its foolish to judge football legacy team cities as a reason for expansion. Those cities have teams because they got them a long time ago, when the small teams were big deals. If we were debating that SA should have gotten a team in 1949, well thats maybe true, but its not smart business to create comparison model using legacy teams as a comparison.

If you think I am wrong, just think about why SA does not have a football team already. If it were that profitable, it would, or it would at least be on the 'big table'. Its not.




I never said there were not rich people. What I said was-



Which is true. SA's main market is still primarily services, military and tourism, not very big corporate industries when you compare it to other metros in the 1-3 million area (seattle, Minneapolis, Salt Lake are biggest examples).

Spurs sell out now because they started winning. Before the late 90s, it was a different story. The city had to practically promise the dome (as one of its very expensive and practically wasted taxing options) to get them to stay, then after they started to complain about it, the city goes and spends to build a brand new SBC center.

The alamodome wont bring a team, the city would have to pay for a brand new dome, which would be more expensive. This is a recession as well. It all does not seem very likely. Add to that the fact that ticket sales would be high in price (which is even steeper when you factor in the low cost of living) and the fact that expansion teams usually do not do too well for their first years...well, lets just say I understand the native hype and support, but logically and businesswise, it would be a bad investment at this point in time. And thats coming from a guy who 10 years ago would be arguing on your side that the SA 'just deserves' a team.


The commission has given thumbs up for plenty of cities. Its good PR. Telling a city 'hey, we think you guys arent good enough' would be bad for business. It would turn locals off to the NFl, and cut any distant future prospects short at the bud, due to resentment.

Just wanting it and having a city with x amount of people is not enough. It is all about bringing in the cash. If SA could bring the cash, it would already have an NFL team, and/or a baseball team, and/or a hockey team. Its just business.

Or just my opinion

Sure some of those teams you mentioned were awarded to several cities long ago. If it is just too expensive for smaller markets, then they would have relocated already, once venue leases are up, kinda of a contridiction to what you are saying.

You are dead wrong about San Antonio being a mostly Tourisim and Military driven city. Actually Financial, and Healthcare-Biomedical are the largest industries, Financial (largest in Texas)over $20 billion, and Healthcare nearly $17 billion. National Defense is third, followed by Manufacturing. Toursim-Convention is huge at nearly $11 billion, but it's not what drives this city economically. I recommend you catch up on the San Antonio of today, rather than, living in it's past.

I know it won't be cheap, San Antonio will have to prove itself.

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by sweethome san antonio

Sure some of those teams you mentioned were awarded to several cities long ago. If it is just too expensive for smaller markets, then they would have relocated already, once venue leases are up, kinda of a contridiction to what you are saying.

? Yes, that was my point. That whats a 'legacy team' that I keep mentioning, is. Its not too expensive for smaller markets because they have already expanded and established. If they hadnt, they would have moved again. No need for a move.

San Antonio does not have a team. It is not a comparison. Saying "Hey, San Francisco got a team in 1949, when the NFL was a smaller entity, so San Antonio in 2009 deserves a team" just does not work. The time comparison and cost benefits do not work.

Originally Posted by sweethomesanantonio

You are dead wrong about San Antonio being a mostly Tourisim and Military driven city. Actually Financial, and Healthcare-Biomedical are the largest industries, Financial (largest in Texas)over $20 billion, and Healthcare nearly $17 billion. National Defense is third, followed by Manufacturing. Toursim-Convention is huge at nearly $11 billion, but it's not what drives this city economically. I recommend you catch up on the San Antonio of today, rather than, living in it's past.

My family still lives in SA, so I assure you I am as caught up as one can be, relatively. Yes, those sectors you mentioned have grown, but Military and Tourism are still the staples. There are no national corporate entities equivalent to microsoft or Boeing (there used to be) or 3M, or Target or Cargill or General Mills equivalents in Texas. Most big markets in TX do not extend far outside of San Antonio.

(no offense).

Again, this is all just my opinion, and if it were 10 years ago I would be arguing what you are, but looking objectively from a business sense with a broad looking glass, it would not be a smart investment for the NFL to expand to SA at this time.

At the very least as proof, if it were such a good investment, there would already be a team there. If the money was good, the NFL would be all over SA. Its not.

[SweethomeSanAntonio]

Originally Posted by tindo80

? Yes, that was my point. That whats a 'legacy team' that I keep mentioning, is. Its not too expensive for smaller markets because they have already expanded and established. If they hadnt, they would have moved again. No need for a move.

San Antonio does not have a team. It is not a comparison. Saying "Hey, San Francisco got a team in 1949, when the NFL was a smaller entity, so San Antonio in 2009 deserves a team" just does not work. The time comparison and cost benefits do not work.




My family still lives in SA, so I assure you I am as caught up as one can be, relatively. Yes, those sectors you mentioned have grown, but Military and Tourism are still the staples. There are no national corporate entities equivalent to microsoft or Boeing (there used to be) or 3M, or Target or Cargill or General Mills equivalents in Texas. Most big markets in TX do not extend far outside of San Antonio.

(no offense).

Again, this is all just my opinion, and if it were 10 years ago I would be arguing what you are, but looking objectively from a business sense with a broad looking glass, it would not be a smart investment for the NFL to expand to SA at this time.

At the very least as proof, if it were such a good investment, there would already be a team there. If the money was good, the NFL would be all over SA. Its not.

The NFL isn't all over any city at this time becasue it isn't expanding yet. Many exsisting teams always use San Antonio as a threat, as a possible relocation, to help push for new venues.

And... NO, Toursim and Military do not dominate San Antonio's economic force. Government/Military is 3rd and and Tourism is 5th. Why do you insist it is otherwise?

Valero the largest Oil and Gas company in North America, now larger than Exxon, plus there is USAA, Tesoro Energy, Nustar Energy, Clear Channel are all F500. AT&T was HQ in San Antonio untill just recently. Plus Micosoft, Boeing and many major Regional offices have campuses in San Antonio that employee tens of thousands.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by satx56

As a taxpayer I pray some other city is the proud recipient of an NFL franchise!! Not San Antonio!! If you want it please volunteer to pay for it!!

Put it on a ballot and let democracy decide,
ask people if they want to pay their $$$ share of the price to have an NFL team in San Antonio.

[bresilhac]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Put it on a ballot and let democracy decide,
ask people if they want to pay their $$$ share of the price to have an NFL team in San Antonio.

I would bet that referendum would pass with flying colors. I don't think it will come to that though. All the city or county would have to do is offer some free land and a bunch of tax abatements. Any potential owner concerned with costs would gladly accept that deal.

[ged_782]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Put it on a ballot and let democracy decide,
ask people if they want to pay their $$$ share of the price to have an NFL team in San Antonio.

Originally Posted by bresilhac

I would bet that referendum would pass with flying colors. I don't think it will come to that though. All the city or county would have to do is offer some free land and a bunch of tax abatements. Any potential owner concerned with costs would gladly accept that deal.

Uh, the taxpayer-funded Alamodome was built because supposedly that's all we lacked - a suitable venue - for an NFL team to play in. Building this domed stadium with public money would send a powerful message to the NFL - that San Antonio is so serious about NFL football, that the citizens will fund and build a suitable facility without private investment.

The referendum passed, the facility was built, and twenty years later, we're still waiting for our NFL franchise.

[firstclassflyer]

Let the team make a commitment, fund their own stadium and charge for PSL's (it won't pay for the whole thing..but they can obtain private funding for the remainder)...like the other guys said. This way the whiners around town can't say anything.

[firstclassflyer]

Originally Posted by ged_782

Uh, the taxpayer-funded Alamodome was built because supposedly that's all we lacked - a suitable venue - for an NFL team to play in. Building this domed stadium with public money would send a powerful message to the NFL - that San Antonio is so serious about NFL football, that the citizens will fund and build a suitable facility without private investment.

The referendum passed, the facility was built, and twenty years later, we're still waiting for our NFL franchise.

Obviously, I wasn't living here back then...but was there some sort of guarantee that a franchise would move here if a stadium was built? What was the situation?