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Old 06-14-2009, 12:22 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,884 posts, read 4,337,102 times
Reputation: 1606

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
I'm not gay, but I understand why they would want to have a place to get together and feel comfortable, safe and talk to people that go through the same things they go through everyday.

Why a gay section?
I dare you to live 1 day as a "openly gay person with your partner"
and then come back and tell us if people treated you the same way as they always have treated you.
Why a gay section?
A gay section will never last, you will attract the best and the brightest in art and music and talent. Gay or not, many of us in this city would venture there, especially since they are killing First Friday.

I have many friends who are gay, and some that have gone over to Thailand to make "the change". My response is always the same: "We all, every one of us, have a right to our own happiness. As long as we don't hurt (physicaly) anyone else on the way, we should have it!"
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:53 AM
 
15,062 posts, read 19,631,781 times
Reputation: 12219
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
Why a gay section?
A gay section will never last, you will attract the best and the brightest in art and music and talent. Gay or not, many of us in this city would venture there, especially since they are killing First Friday.
That's what I was thinking about, in a way it helps to educate people.

People can go there and "experience" the gay community for a few minutes (same as going to Chinatown, a german area, italian area, etc).
If people don't like it, they can get in their car and keep on driving.
If it doesn't bother them, they can stay and learn from the people that they meet there.

And for the people that say that having an ethnic district is discrimination
I always think is interesting that I've never heard anybody complain about Chinese, German or Italian districts. (I believe New Braunfels could be consider one)
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:04 AM
 
175 posts, read 240,582 times
Reputation: 97
San Antonio's 'gayborhood' is very unimpressive, in offering and substance, compared to Dallas, and Houston, and lacks the vibrancy of 4th street in Austin. I think these changes will serve the area well.
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:01 AM
 
126 posts, read 378,775 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post
To BigDog....good luck with your endeavors. But I hope they expand past a gay bar and an adult video store.
Yes, we started business with a "gay bar" (which I have always wondered why nobody ever refers to any other bar as a "straight bar", you know.. the straight bar the W.. I mean Aloft) and we have no interest in an adult video store... and not because because it may bother someone morally that lives 12 zip codes away but because DVD's are a dying format and it would be a horrible business decision.

A gay bar is a perfectly legitimate business the last time I checked and when responsibly operated no more harmful than your neighborhood "straight bar". I know it ruffles some feathers that gay bars are the most visible gay operated business in any given city but if you know your gay history, recall that stonewall was not just the name of a gay rights movement, it was a bar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post

We've all seen some very "x-rated" displays in pride parades that are honestly unnecessary. Sex is sex.....no matter the gender.
Where in San Antonio have you seen an "X-rated" pride parade? Really? Was in actually on you TV? Was it Fox News? Was it on Glen Beck?

I have attended all of the gay pride parades here (all 5 of them) and have never seen anything more offensive then the "sexy cheerleading" you would see at any local high-school football game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post

Honestly, my gay friends keep their private life private...as most any other couple. I just found it troubling that you asked Ryeone if he held hands or acted like hetero couples in public. Honestly, that's really none of your business. You may feel some gays feel repressed in their outward expression of affection, but that is their personal cross to bear. They have to come to that place as a couple or individual. There are plenty of hetero couples that don't show public displays of affection....just because that's their choice. Everyone should have that same privilege and choice.

I
Awww the usual "I don't mind gays as long as they keep their private lives private" speech. But when it comes to YOUR private life we are expected to hear every little detail of it.

There may be some stone cold straight couples that don't even share a peck on the cheek on their Valentines dinner, but is that the bare minimum we are allowed have for ourselves?

Are gay couples not allowed to express passion just because some straight couples choose not to? What is the point of spending a good portion of ones weekly pay for a dinner out if there can be no comfortable expression of romance or love?

Why can there not be a place for gay couples of singles to be themselves? This absolutely does not mean the exclusion of anyone else. I have never seen a gay friendly business exclude any person or couple because they are straight.

Not everyone want to make a political statement with their partner at Chili's restaurant when all they want is an affordable night out to celebrate a promotion at work on a Tuesday night. One thing you cant say about San Antonio is that we are definitely not sterile when it comes to our expression of emotion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post

I feel like we need to bridge gaps by becoming a more homogenized community, instead of creating barriers. And I see this as being one of those "barriers".

.
True but I really don't understand how straight singe men and women can mix in a bar or club with gay single men and women without mass confusion and embarrassment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post

I feel like we need to bridge gaps by becoming a more homogenized community, instead of creating barriers. And I see this as being one of those "barriers".

.
So we have to become homogenized by trying to fit in to you social customs.. why don't you come and homogenized yourself with some homos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post


The best experience I participated in was a community project in another city that helped confused or angry youths get to know other people that they did not understand. Kids that were acting out with escalating hatred and marginal hate crimes toward others of different religions, or race or lifestyles were to spend time in supervised workshops where they had to get to know each other and work on a project as a team. As a chaperone, I literally wept with amazement as I watched complete transformations in mindsets that were simply afraid of someone who was "different" from them. "Different" being relative to where they came from.

I hope you can inspire that type of community bridge as well. We need to come together through the things that we have in common.....and when we strip our needs down to the bare bones, we all share more in common as human beings than we have differences.
Ok that sounds great but we are businesses that generate money and not social workers... Hopefully some of the 30K we spend a month in Liquor Tax goes to programs like this but its not really in our business plan, other than to treat all employees and customers with respect. I doubt you will find a staff and clientele as diverse and accepting as ours anywhere in San Antonio.....
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:09 AM
 
126 posts, read 378,775 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonfresh View Post
bigdogs, to what extent do you envision the scope/primeters of the district to be?

Also, how familiar are you with the people who run Tobin Hills and do they plan to debut a logo/slogan any time soon? What about infrastructure improvements via the city? Any plans that you know of?
Carolyn with the Tobin Hill community association has been working hard on getting a design for the sings to be placed at the entrances to the neighborhood with a look and slogan appropriate to Tobin Hill. We were recently approved for a $15,000 grant with the city to produce some of these basic Identifying signage.
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:22 AM
 
1,131 posts, read 1,473,393 times
Reputation: 493
That sounds great. Who is "we" when you speak of the $15,000? You and your partner or Tobin Hill (which you are a part of).

Also, is this an open competition for a new logo/slogan or are you going with a firm?
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:25 AM
 
175 posts, read 240,582 times
Reputation: 97
BigDogsTX, that was a great post. I concur the continued need for designated 'gayborhoods' within cities, allowing gays their own place to be themselves. Despite the progress that has been made recently in regards to gay rights, this country is still largely homophobic.

In a city like San Antonio, which is largely "family oriented" and religious, I can understand how a gay couple would feel uncomfortable showing affection in public, thus reenforcing the need for this type of segregation, albeit unfortunate.

I hope, in the future that people can learn to embrace diversity and stay out of others business.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,432,633 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
Why a gay section?
A gay section will never last, you will attract the best and the brightest in art and music and talent. Gay or not, many of us in this city would venture there, especially since they are killing First Friday.

I have many friends who are gay, and some that have gone over to Thailand to make "the change". My response is always the same: "We all, every one of us, have a right to our own happiness. As long as we don't hurt (physicaly) anyone else on the way, we should have it!"
"making the change" is NOT gay. that is transgender. no offense, but i think that gays still need a place where you can safely assume that other guys are gay too. i don't want a strip overrun by hetros. i've seen really gay venues overrun with hetro "gawkers". i don't wish to feel like a freak in a "gay strip". but i do really appreciate your live and let live attitude
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,432,633 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnoxiaSan View Post
You got lucky, but when you live in other areas of town, like the Eastside and the Westside... dont EVEN get me started on the south, people are less forgiving due to poor education and such.

I went to a highschool that was full of open minded people, and full of gays, lesbians, and others. I think I was lucky to experience that.
yes, that is very true. i work with a lot of otherwise nice elderly folks from the southside and westside. it is OK for them to utter the word "q***r" (in a mean way) and get away with it - except around me of course. i gently nudge them with the old jerry seinfeld quote - "not that there's anything wrong with it" - they are clients after all. i can;t afford to alienate them too much.
this city is way TOO catholic and that adds a lot to the anti-gay hysteria that goes on here.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:01 AM
 
4,796 posts, read 13,713,541 times
Reputation: 2709
BD...I didn't post to start a debate over being "gay". I'm very accepting, and probably being straight used some un-pc hot button words unintentionally. It's out of simple ignorance. It's clear from your defensive remarks that I did that. I apologize. Please don't be defensive with me. I'd love to keep this friendly. Possibly you could point out certain statements that seem unfair or insensitive instead of immediately assuming I watch Fox or am a bigot. I'm don't and I'm not. I really want to know....but it does work both ways. I don't understand some of the references you used, but that's ok. Help me understand. Help others understand. That's how we come together, instead of getting defensive and giving people that don't understand another reason to keep the walls up.

I'll insert a few comments in your post below for clarity....but I'm not here to win a contest. Quite the contrary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogsTX View Post
Quote:
Yes, we started business with a "gay bar" (which I have always wondered why nobody ever refers to any other bar as a "straight bar", you know.. the straight bar the W.. I mean Aloft) and we have no interest in an adult video store... and not because because it may bother someone morally that lives 12 zip codes away but because DVD's are a dying format and it would be a horrible business decision.

A gay bar is a perfectly legitimate business the last time I checked and when responsibly operated no more harmful than your neighborhood "straight bar". I know it ruffles some feathers that gay bars are the most visible gay operated business in any given city but if you know your gay history, recall that stonewall was not just the name of a gay rights movement, it was a bar!
I personally don't care what it's called. I just know about them from my gay friends. THEY refer to it as a "gay" bar so other gays know it's "gay friendly".
Calling it a gay bar is not necessarily a derogatory word. But once again, it's defining gay or not gay.



Quote:
Where in San Antonio have you seen an "X-rated" pride parade? Really? Was in actually on you TV? Was it Fox News? Was it on Glen Beck?
Yeah....already responded to the Fox/Glenn thingie. It would be helpful to bridge gaps by not using that kind of assumption in discussions.

RE: the x-rated stuff. I didn't say I saw any of this in San Antonio. I lived in Dallas for almost 20 years...and saw plenty of this in store fronts....as well as in New Orleans and San Francisco. As far as the parades in other towns, blame the media for sensationalizing the perverts. Note I didn't say "gays"....perverts come in all forms. But the only coverage I've seen with actually walking sex organs has been in a pride parade....elsewhere. The History Channel is replete with "history" and "culture" on sexuality. Macy's or the Rose Bowl or Fiesta parades frown on nudity, let along perversion. I just don't get why SOME (emphasis on some) feel the need to shove the "sex" part in the face of the world. It really serves no other purpose than offend and separate.


Quote:
I have attended all of the gay pride parades here (all 5 of them) and have never seen anything more offensive then the "sexy cheerleading" you would see at any local high-school football game.

Quote:
Awww the usual "I don't mind gays as long as they keep their private lives private" speech. But when it comes to YOUR private life we are expected to hear every little detail of it.
Actually, I've heard your defense speech too many times as well. This isn't about being gay, or a double standard. Privacy comes from any lifestyle. If a gay couple doesn't want to be openly affectionate, that's their choice. That's why I felt it to be unfair to assume Ryone was intimidated to be openly affectionate because of the part of town he lives in. That may just be what he and his SO prefer. I'm also a private person, and you will never hear me discuss "details" with anyone. Again...this is an individual choice, not a gay or straight thing. If a gay couple wants to hold hands, or be affectionate, that's their choice. If someone else is offended, that's the offended person's problem. It's all about boundaries. In general, most people don't like seeing anyone making out or getting TOO physical in public. I don't. If I'm at a restaurant or club or theater, I do not want to be sitting next to two human beings that need to get a room. I honestly could care less about their sexual orientation.

Quote:
There may be some stone cold straight couples that don't even share a peck on the cheek on their Valentines dinner, but is that the bare minimum we are allowed have for ourselves?
no one has said this in this discussion. Your choice...not the world's.

Quote:
Why can there not be a place for gay couples of singles to be themselves? This absolutely does not mean the exclusion of anyone else. I have never seen a gay friendly business exclude any person or couple because they are straight.
So what does this mean? Being what? Human? I don't see where this was even brought up for discussion.

Quote:
So we have to become homogenized by trying to fit in to you social customs.. why don't you come and homogenized yourself with some homos!
Now...this comment is just silly. One of the things that many people like about San Antonio is that the population of cultures, races, ethnicity can be found in almost every area of town. There isn't huge segregation here...yes, pockets here and there...but as slow and backwards as some seem to think SA is, it's really one of the more accepting cities I've ever lived in. If you want me to elaborate on that I will....but this is already a book.

Quote:
Ok that sounds great but we are businesses that generate money and not social workers... Hopefully some of the 30K we spend a month in Liquor Tax goes to programs like this but its not really in our business plan, other than to treat all employees and customers with respect. I doubt you will find a staff and clientele as diverse and accepting as ours anywhere in San Antonio.....
Ok...so you're more about building your business. No biggie. I misunderstood when you posted on here about everything you are doing to broaden the gay community. Maybe we have different ideas about your purpose. I just think opening doors and building bridges along the way will help both purposes. I would like to see more tolerance among people that don't understand. Tolerance doesn't mean someone HAS to accept anything that goes against their beliefs, but it does mean we can live in peace with our differences as long as our civil liberties and human rights are not compromised.

I fully understand that while you take issue with whatever I've posted, there are plenty of straight people that are also in major disagreement with what I've said as well. But that's me....and I accept responsibility for my thoughts and actions. And I accept that many people don't agree with me on many points. It's all ok. I can live with that.
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