San Antonio Light-Rail... Possibility?...Give SA Light Rail...Light Rail Trolley (Houston: schools, taxi)

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

I think you forgot to add in the taxes from the rental cars and also both of the same for Austin. Also, both of these areas are among the "fastest growing " metros in the country...ain't no way the ridership would decrease after opening. This would be a "new" tax and dedicated solely for this project at 100%.

Does no one consider cost any longer?!?? I just pointed out the VERY conservative raw costs - and you want to jump up with MORE taxes??? Look - at some point, there's just no more milk to be gotten from the cow - and both cities have hit that mark. All the years of "we'll just add this much tax to this" and "just this much increase to that" - you've hit saturation. Right now, HOT is 10.75%. You'd be looking at (conservatively) quadrupling that to over 43% - and that's before state sales tax!

[Pancho-Villa]

So what? You'd be effectively shifting the tax burden to mostly out of staters. This happens frequently now in many other states. Why would you be opposed to this? Better them, than us. Your numbers are sensationalized (good job of that). Make the tax perpetual and adjust as necessary (no quadrupling necessary)
Seems to me that cost is ALL that you consider. Besides, you'll most likely not be here when it's done anyway, given your age.

[TrapperL]

ain't no way the ridership would decrease after opening.

I have to strongly disagree. WE had family that worked at VIA before it was VIA. It was called the San Antonio Transit Company. Riders on the buses were common. Buses sometimes were standing room only, they were that full. Didn't take but a few times that somebody got stabbed or a couple of deadbeats robbed the passengers at gun point; I haven't seen a loaded bus in decades. To say ridership will never go down is not correct. Nobody in their right mind is going to travel on any public transportation unless they are safe. There's virtually no way to guarantee your safety on one of these things. There's a reason the current buses are not full, people don't trust their safety in one. And who wants to get all dressed up for a ride somewhere only to have some drunken bum sitting next to you? It happens. People that are riding the buses now are doing it due to economic issues and can't afford a car or the mandated insurance that goes with it. This is not New York and folks around here are just not going to willingly get on any public transit system. While some of you from other parts of the world are accustomed to public transit, it hasn't worked here in decades and that's not about to change no matter how much money you throw at it. How did that go about putting lipstick on a pig....

[Pancho-Villa]

That thinking is obsolete. Are you another oldie? We are also talking two cites here...not one. Two of the fastest growing cities in this country. Sorry, but more and more are moving here from places that ARE used to public transport (and there are less and less old school thinkers), and these aren't buses. Now I see why progress is slow (but starting to move a little faster) here. Once a lot of these people die off, things should be different.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

That thinking is obsolete. Are you another oldie? We are also talking two cites here...not one. Two of the fastest growing cities in this country. Sorry, but more and more are moving here from places that ARE used to public transport (and there are less and less old school thinkers), and these aren't buses. Now I see why progress is slow (but starting to move a little faster) here. Once a lot of these people die off, things should be different.

So - now you're saying it's because we're "old", eh? Well then, Junior - let an "Oldster" give you a little insight into your future.

You go ahead and tax those convention goers and hotel visitors - at some point, they're going to find more cost-effective lodging (it happens already, convention bid packages include the HOT rates on all major convention proposals). It IS a factor. You don't understand that because you're not dry behind the ears enough to understand basic economics, so you can't help yourself. Maybe you can find an adult to explain it to you in single-syllable words.

Human nature doesn't change - nor does reality. Based on YOUR thinking, given that public transportation has now been around for over 50 years, we should have full buses......seen one lately? Because I have news for you, Mr. "New Generation" - those bus lines were running when I was a kid - and we had street cars back in the early 1900's, as well. Folks found them inconvenient and that they really didn't take them where they wanted to go in a timely manner.

Seems to me that YOU are the one with the blinders on. I took the time to do some research on some of the basics of the proposal, which you obviously haven't bothered doing - like so many, you're operating off of what you WANT rather than what is feasible. Thinking like that is what's brought many cities to bankruptcy - but you obviously think you can tax your way out of that. That's what Detroit and Chicago thought, too. Don't think it's worked out too well for them, has it?

[Pancho-Villa]

Not physically old, silly (although it sounds like you both are). Yer thinking is old and obsolete. I suppose we ought to start using the hammer and chisel again too. Last time I looked, Detroit and Chicago were still standing and always will be.

[WilGar]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

I think you forgot to add in the taxes from the rental cars and also both of the same for Austin. Also, both of these areas are among the "fastest growing " metros in the country...ain't no way the ridership would decrease after opening. This would be a "new" tax and dedicated solely for this project at 100%.

Another "NEW" tax and let's let the tourist pay it.

The tourists have an option-to come to SA or go somewhere else.

Just got a bill for a rental car in Scottsdale , AZ The quoted daily rental was inflated 40% with:
"Tourism Fees"
"Airport Fees"
"Concession Fees"
"Sales Tax"

40% is robbery.

Guess who ISN"T going to Scottsdale for a golf outing next year?

The old phrase about squeezing the goose that laid the golden eggs is appropriate here.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

Not physically old, silly (although it sounds like you both are). Yer thinking is old and obsolete. I suppose we ought to start using the hammer and chisel again too. Last time I looked, Detroit and Chicago were still standing and always will be.

True - then again, I live in a house that's paid for and drive vehicles that are paid for. We live well within our means. Obviously, indebtedness means little or nothing to you....yet.

"Still standing"? Really? You driven through either of them lately? Shells of former homes, businesses and weed-infested streets in many areas.

[TrapperL]

Okay, I'll play. Yes, I'm officially old, I guess. I'm 71 and remember when there was no Wonderland mall....I mean Crossroads mall. Then again, I remember them building the first mall in San Antonio- McCreless Mall. What you might find out about us old folks that we've seen a lot of things you have no clue about. Debt is one of them. You and I are suppose to live within our means. Yes, my house is paid for as are the 5 cars/trucks in the driveway/garage Notice something I have in common with TexasRedneck? We don't owe anybody. We learned fairly quick that the best way is to pay your way. Same thing works for ANY Government entities. If it doesn't pay for itself, it's a bad deal. If it was profitable, it would already be there. Folks are already in the choking mode of living due to the incredible tax loads dumped on them. The tax load should never exceed 10% of your income yet we are over that by a lot- over 40%. The average person in Texas works 225 days just to cover the taxes. There's a reason people are moving to Texas. We're fairly cheap on taxes and frankly, the amount paid by Texans is robbery. If you like taxes, I suggest finding your way to New York. They have lots of taxes. You'd be right at home. And to the people that are moving here, we like it like it is. You don't like it, go home. See, that was so simple even a caveman gets it.


FWIW, the right of way between Austin and SA that was considered for the high speed rail project was also under scrutiny by the Buffet bunch for wind generators and the associated wires/towers. Buffet thought so much of the project that he bought and paid for 365 units. Then found out the cost of the right a way was WAY TOO MUCH. He ended up selling most of the units. A bud of mine that is a rancher in S Texas bought 100 of them from him.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

Not physically old, silly (although it sounds like you both are). Yer thinking is old and obsolete. I suppose we ought to start using the hammer and chisel again too. Last time I looked, Detroit and Chicago were still standing and always will be.

It's ok, we'll build our bullet train to Austin and will make sure it doesn't stop in New Braunfels.
All kidding aside TR, I appreciate the effort you put into researching the cost.