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Old 11-17-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
1,512 posts, read 2,607,212 times
Reputation: 2219

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You know, xGrendelx, there are artists who make fantastic pieces of art from junkyard bits and other assorted things. I have seen some amazing creations (steel, aluminum, plastic, etc.).

I'd like to try it myself, actually.

Would you mind if I came over to your house/apartment/whatever and dismantled your car (just a little) and look around the outside of your house for things I can use? I promise--it will be for art.

Oh, and you'll have to pay for any repairs that may be needed after I create my "art."

--Dim
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 12,789,652 times
Reputation: 2534
My form of art involves keying in pictures to the side of cars. May I borrow yours???
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: NW San Antonio
2,953 posts, read 8,600,860 times
Reputation: 3211
Quote:
Originally Posted by xGrendelx View Post
What makes you say they're not artists? You may not like the painting they did because it was done illegally, but the act of painting will always be an artistic one despite where the painting is. Since the act of painting is always an artistic one, the painter is always an artist. If someone plays music on a street that has banned street performers and gets removed, is that person no longer a musician?
They are not "Artists" nor should they even be labeled with the euphemism, "TAGGERS" They are VANDALS!! Clear and simple. Criminally trespassing on someone else's property, defacing it, and then claiming it's their territory. BULLSHEEIT. This PC crap has gone so far as to believe that if we call a turd, Play-Doh, we can sell it at Christmas as a toy. The fact that there are people that say, "Oh, what a lovely expression of someone's feelings." doesn't make it any less criminal. You think its so great, wake up one morning and find your fence sprayed, your house, your car, or a business that you work 10 hours a day to make a living "Vandalized" with someone's "Emotional Expressions" YOu spend hours and hundreds of dollars cleaning it off and then you come back here and praise the innocent "artists" that are simply "misunderstood" Be responsible for cleaning up the mess before you whitewash the crime.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:46 AM
 
Location: West Creek
1,720 posts, read 4,006,091 times
Reputation: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by xGrendelx View Post
What makes you say they're not artists? You may not like the painting they did because it was done illegally, but the act of painting will always be an artistic one despite where the painting is. Since the act of painting is always an artistic one, the painter is always an artist. If someone plays music on a street that has banned street performers and gets removed, is that person no longer a musician?

Whats wrong with your logic?
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Tejas
443 posts, read 779,605 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by xGrendelx View Post
What makes you say they're not artists? You may not like the painting they did because it was done illegally, but the act of painting will always be an artistic one despite where the painting is. Since the act of painting is always an artistic one, the painter is always an artist. If someone plays music on a street that has banned street performers and gets removed, is that person no longer a musician?
I don't feel your analogy a fair one, but I'll play along.

___________

Reality:
Spray painting hideously obnoxious stuff all over my fence - criminal

Analogy:
Someone who comes onto my property to bang out their tune - criminal.

___________

Reality:
I paint my fence (gee, I'm an artist too) and someone comes along to tag it once again - they're a criminal

Analogy:
Someone who interrupts my performance (my nice, newly painted fence), at my venue to drown me out - criminal

___________

I could go on, but you should be able to grasp the idea. Or, shall I drop by your home with my paint and express myself all over your private property?

Do the kids have artistic ability? some do.. Is it art when it is on the side of private property and causes grief, financial burdens and wastes countless man-hours in repair? that's not art. Art can elicit unpleasant feelings and still remain art, but it does so in a proper venue amongst a voluntary audience.

Art is not to be involuntarily inflicted upon people, causing them physical and monetary harm. Sort of like if I held you down and involuntarily gave you a tattoo.

Even if it isn't my property being tagged, it doesn't fit my vision of a happy and healthy neighborhood. If my neighbors agree, then it is an ugliness which is harming something much larger than any one individual. It is a creeping malaise that reminds everyone that crime and a lack of safety await them right outside their door.

I can understand wanting to see the good in these kids. If you see beauty in their art, that's great. But do maintain a proper balance and consider those negatively effected by their actions. Exercise equality in the distribution of your empathy.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
 
1,653 posts, read 5,146,162 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapscallion View Post
I can understand wanting to see the good in these kids. If you see beauty in their art, that's great. But do maintain a proper balance and consider those negatively effected by their actions. Exercise equality in the distribution of your empathy.
I do. I never said I approve of their actions (even though the majority of you who posted after me seem to think that), and I never said what they did wasn't a crime, but I just wanted to know what it was they did that makes what they did un-artistic. I personally don't think legality has anything to with art. I thank those of you who actually answered my question instead jumping all over me and talking about destroying my car. I can agree to disagree with the rest of you on your definition of art, especially since I don't want to debate each of you individually. All I can say is that I feel most of you have a warped sense of what graffiti is to the person doing it. In fact, many of you are confused on what the act of graffiti is in general. Graffiti has a long (I'm talking centuries) and interesting history - I'd ask you all to read up on it from a graff writer's point of view but I doubt that'll happen. If anything, try to remember that not every graffiti artist is a vandal. And for those of you who don't think graffiti is art, I ask you to watch this video of an artist doing what's known as a "masterpiece" on a wall in a gallery. Nothing illegal about this:


YouTube - Graffiti

I'm sorry for those of you who have had your property tagged, and I can understand your anger towards graffiti. Maybe one day San Antonio will make a "safe zone" for graffiti. It's an easier, and cheaper, alternative to chasing, cleaning up after, and jailing taggers.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Tejas
443 posts, read 779,605 times
Reputation: 424
Assigning it as "art", being an illegal action, denigrates the term. That is my problem. It does a disservice to both real artists and yourself, in explaining your point of view. They are artists when they pursue acceptable avenues for their expressions. They may have artistic talent, but their method of expression is injurious.

I have perused a large coffee-table book on graffiti. I recall some really humorous ones from the Roman era (surprising how little humor has changed over the centuries), and I have worked as a graphic artist in the past. I also appreciate the aesthetics of what some would consider mundane which come together as an expression of a culture. Graffiti can act as a gaping wound in that.

We all are known by what we do. If you break the law, you are a criminal. We even sometimes refer to a criminal as an "artist" (eg, con-artist), being that one is so accomplished in executing his crime, but that is NOT art. A smooth talker can paint a picture of reality which plays upon anything from sympathy to greed, and lead someone into handing over a wheelbarrow of money, but he doesn't deserve recognition as an actor. Bernie Madoff won't be getting the Academy Award this year.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:08 PM
 
1,653 posts, read 5,146,162 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapscallion View Post
Assigning it as "art", being an illegal action, denigrates the term. That is my problem. It does a disservice to both real artists and yourself, in explaining your point of view. They are artists when they pursue acceptable avenues for their expressions. They may have artistic talent, but their method of expression is injurious.

I have perused a large coffee-table book on graffiti. I recall some really humorous ones from the Roman era (surprising how little humor has changed over the centuries), and I have worked as a graphic artist in the past. I also appreciate the aesthetics of what some would consider mundane which come together as an expression of a culture. Graffiti can act as a gaping wound in that.

We all are known by what we do. If you break the law, you are a criminal. We even sometimes refer to a criminal as an "artist" (eg, con-artist), being that one is so accomplished in executing his crime, but that is NOT art. A smooth talker can paint a picture of reality which plays upon anything from sympathy to greed, and lead someone into handing over a wheelbarrow of money, but he doesn't deserve recognition as an actor. Bernie Madoff won't be getting the Academy Award this year.
I appreciate your point of view, and in many ways agree. I thank you for your civility.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:44 PM
 
872 posts, read 1,633,022 times
Reputation: 440
I think the legal criminal penalty for this garbage should be much more severe than the current standard and there should be some embarrassing public punishment to discourage further deviant behavior of this nature. Due to the deliberate and costly destruction of other people's property, this should be a felony. This is trash, plain and simple and if left unchecked will lead to a dramatic further reduction of the stability of a neighborhood or a city. There is nothing cute or admirable about tagging. You want your name on a sign then contact Adopt-A-Highway and you'll have your own street sign that you can admire each time you pick up trash along that portion of the highway and you can admire your sign at anytime.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,807 posts, read 26,289,640 times
Reputation: 3987
I think you should be able to protect the value of your property. Moderator cut: no violence comments

Last edited by Chickrae; 11-17-2009 at 07:53 PM.. Reason: no violence comments
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