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Old 08-02-2006, 03:42 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,023,677 times
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Ah huhÖ.whatever man. Just like SA has a booming urban scene. Guess thatís why all those new neighborhoods are being sprawled out north of 1604.

Iíll leave it to a former resident of the Bay Area to judge whether San Antonio is ďprogressiveĒ or not.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:45 PM
210
 
Location: san antonio - 210
1,722 posts, read 1,645,768 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin
210-

Very few people live downtown in San Antonio…very few. I was just there a week ago and know numerous people that live there and even compared to the rest of the state (which has sparse downtown options), San Antonio lacks urban living.
With the downtown population set to triple within the next two years, I doubt there's much in the way of urban living downtown.

Not to mention I can give you three plus 25 story condo highrises planned for downtown.

Two twin 25 stories and a 27 story on Houston St.

I can go on, like the 13-story Piazza San Lorenzo mix use going up on Houston St. as well.

I'm sure you saw the numerous cranes downtown when you were here last week or whenever.

Quote:
For San Antonio’s size, its urban downtown area is small. What, San Antonio is the 6th biggest city in the country now? Places like Hartford, CT and Charlotte, NC have bigger downtowns.
By bigger you mean skyline wise, right?

Because in terms of downtown density, San Antonio beats both.

Quote:
Look where the new companies are opening up. They are not moving downtown but building office complexes in the burbs. WAMU is a perfect example.
That has to do with downtown housing in what way?

Downtown still boasts over 100,000 workers.

Not mention the HQ for AT&T, Frost Bank, HEB, etc.

Quote:
And as far as suburb sprawl, San Antonio has most places beat (maybe apart from LA, Houston, or Phoenix).
Actually it doesn't.

LA, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Las Vegas def. have SA beat.

And unless you live in New York City, you live ina metro area with sprawl. That's the post World War II pattern every major metro area has taken.

Could your dislike for everything San Antonio be coated any thicker?
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:48 PM
210
 
Location: san antonio - 210
1,722 posts, read 1,645,768 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin
Ah huh….whatever man. Just like SA has a booming urban scene. Guess that’s why all those new neighborhoods are being sprawled out north of 1604.
Do you actually think the area north of 1604 is the only booming area of the city?

lol

The far west side is booming, the southeast side is booming, and downtown to Uptown is starting to boom.

Do I really have to run off the porjects for you?

Quote:
I’ll leave it to a former resident of the Bay Area to judge whether San Antonio is “progressive” or not.
And what resident would that be? Not you.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:00 PM
210
 
Location: san antonio - 210
1,722 posts, read 1,645,768 times
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Here's one of the cranes I'm sure you saw when visiting downtown SA.

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Old 08-02-2006, 04:03 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,023,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
With the downtown population set to triple within the next two years, I doubt there's much in the way of urban living downtown.
Triple from what? 5,000 out of a city of a million. WOW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
Not to mention I can give you three plus 25 story condo highrises planned for downtown.

Two twin 25 stories and a 27 story on Houston St.

I can go on, like the 13-story Piazza San Lorenzo mix use going up on Houston St. as well.

I'm sure you saw the numerous cranes downtown when you were here last week or whenever.
Yes. I noticed some new buildings going up downtown. The problem is that there is no infrastructure down there to support and sustain a community. Almost everything outside of the Riverwalk closes down after 6pm. The downtown still caters to tourists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
By bigger you mean skyline wise, right?

Because in terms of downtown density, San Antonio beats both.
By bigger I mean total area. San Antonio may be denser, but thatís because the downtown area is so small in area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
That has to do with downtown housing in what way?
Because when you create a downtown urban living community without the jobs to support that community, they have to go work somewhere. That means driving, because San Antonio has a non-existent public transportation system. So, more drivers, in a more dense areaÖtraffic! Thatís why it matters.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:12 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,023,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
Do you actually think the area north of 1604 is the only booming area of the city?

lol

The far west side is booming, the southeast side is booming, and downtown to Uptown is starting to boom.
Course the burbs are growing all around SA. The south is growing because of the Toyota plant (which is good for SA). My point is that is how the city has always grown. North of 1604 is simply the fastest growing area.

And as far as your photo....wow, one crane. Stunning. The downtown of SA will be NYC in no time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 210
And what resident would that be? Not you.
No, the former resident of San Francisco that asked the question regarding progressive areas in San Antonio; the question I was originally answering. If you would have simply read the posts instead of being so defensive, maybe you could have figured that out.

And no, I donít hate San Antonio. Like I said, it is a unique city and a great place to visit. Would I move back there? No. Probably not. But that doesnít mean I hate the place. So **** defensive. Seems like a serious case of inferiority complex to me.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:13 PM
210
 
Location: san antonio - 210
1,722 posts, read 1,645,768 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin
Triple from what? 5,000 out of a city of a million. WOW!
A little over 7,000.

However, if you compare our downtown with larger more "urban" downtowns/cities.

San Diego 17,894
Pittsburgh 8,216

You'll see the difference isn't big.



Quote:
Yes. I noticed some new buildings going up downtown. The problem is that there is no infrastructure down there to support and sustain a community. Almost everything outside of the Riverwalk closes down after 6pm. The downtown still caters to tourists.
What infrastructure do you speak of? A grocery store, sure. But that'll come as the population increases downtown. Besides, there's tons of mom and pop grociers who can provide the basic needs now.


Quote:
By bigger I mean total area. San Antonio may be denser, but that’s because the downtown area is so small in area.
I'm sure you have the numbers to back that up. I'll wait.

Quote:
Because when you create a downtown urban living community without the jobs to support that community, they have to go work somewhere. That means driving, because San Antonio has a non-existent public transportation system. So, more drivers, in a more dense area…traffic! That’s why it matters.
Over 100,000 workers downtown as we speak isn't enough already?
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:17 PM
210
 
Location: san antonio - 210
1,722 posts, read 1,645,768 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin
Course the burbs are growing all around SA. The south is growing because of the Toyota plant (which is good for SA). My point is that is how the city has always grown. North of 1604 is simply the fastest growing area.
So the suburbs are growing.

You just described every american city.

Quote:
And as far as your photo....wow, one crane. Stunning. The downtown of SA will be NYC in no time.
Yeah, and if I had pictures of the others I'm sure I'd get an even better immature and sarcastic repsonse.

I'd like to see your cities skyline and the dozen or so cranes. I assume you live in Miami or Las Vegas. Right?


Quote:
No, the former resident of San Francisco that asked the question regarding progressive areas in San Antonio; the question I was originally answering. If you would have simply read the posts instead of being so defensive, maybe you could have figured that out.
Well, as a current San Antonian and as someone who is very liberal and has visited other cities, I think my defensiveness as you've described is warrented seeing as I think you're incorrect.

Quote:
So **** defensive. Seems like a serious case of inferiority complex to me.
Seems like you believe at Skyscraperpage or skyscrapercity. Why do I get the feeling that's where you already post.

And I have an inferiority complex? How so? Oh, because I don't find it well to just bash a city for small faults that any and evey other American city pocesses.

And you like San Antonio as much as Mel Gibson likes Jewish people. Rimshot for me please.
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Old 08-02-2006, 06:00 PM
 
3,107 posts, read 8,202,824 times
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Alrighty then...back to the original poster's questions.

The bottom line is that I agree: San Diego & Southern CA in general is very difficult these days to move forward in terms of buying a home, looking towards securing your financial future, etc...we love living in Southern California but we can't possibly hope to save for our future by continuing to live here in SD.

As far as progressive - can you define that a bit more? My first reaction was "Austin". As I've gotten older, I've become more conservative in my outlook but don't think I could quite ever cross the line to the right. In the 9 yrs that I lived in SA, I found that living as a liberal there was no big crisis.

I'll agree that San Antonio is not exactly an urban oasis. San Diego has been much more progressive on that count. Downtown here is booming...but I think we can attribute much of that to its proximity to the harbor and to its available space. It's a much bigger downtown than San Antonio.

If you're looking for an urban sanctuary the likes of the Bay Area or even San Diego, San Antonio is not it. However, if you're looking for a place to set down some roots and buy a nice home, San Antonio is not a bad place to start.

Where in SD do you live? I live in an area called El Cerrito - a semi-urban setting that has dozens of Spanish Colonial Revival houses & 1940s CA ranches. I had hoped to find an area like Kensington in SA, but I don't think it exists (Kensington is a 1920s/30s planned community - first one in SD - probably 98% of the houses are in the SCR style; these houses which range in size from 1200sf to huge start at roughly $800-900k).

The most comparable areas would be the ones 210 listed. I've heard that Mahncke Park is also up & coming (but it's too up & coming for us - we've already done City Heights & now El Cerrito).

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions in comparing SD to SA.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:37 PM
 
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Thanks Irwin and 210.

Well, first I'd like to say that I don't believe San Diego is as progressive as it likes to pretend to be. There is A LOT of OLD MONEY and the GOOD OL' BOY network is still going strong...hence the city government's string of embarrassing mishaps, bribery, embezzelment, etc. and the pension fund deficit. This is part of the reason the city's residents are struggling to survive. Very little $$ goes into promoting San Diego as a place to live and raise a family...it goes toward attracting tourists and millionaires to live in Rancho Santa Fe, La Jolla, Del Mar...you get my drift?

While I will agree with you Irwin that it's hard to compare the urban living in California to that of other states, I'm really not looking for an "urban hot spot."

I would like to hear your definition of progressive however. If you mean that there is not a Starbucks, McDonald's or PF Changs in every city, then I think I'll be fine. If you mean that they are not open to varying opinions or ethnicities, then that is a different thing all together. But SA does have a large military presence, as does San Diego (the Bay Area lost theirs when the Naval Base in Alameda was closed). This is one similarity.

210: Thanks for the picture and the insight. I agree - Democrats are Democrats. If he was elected...then SA is probably progressive. Funny thing is, of all the places I've lived in California, neither SD nor the Bay Area qualify on my list as "progressive" cities as far as politics go. And voting polls show this to be true. Especially in Orange County! Urban to me means more crime and congestion...both of which I am happy to say good-bye to. I believe all downtowns that have tried to mix living with business go through a very disturbing crime phase and have to rebuild and revitalize years later. No thanks.

So sorry Irwin...the Bay Area to me is not progressive - it's very much like SD in that you are either poor or rich (or robbin' peter to pay paul to perpetrate like you're rich)... the upper middleclass is squeezed out in each of these places. To me, this type of socio-economic division is very conservative.

Thank you both for your info and time.

Last edited by Jaded; 08-02-2006 at 10:37 PM..
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