Possibility of moving to Riverside County (San Bernardino, Santa Rosa: environment, real estate, hoa)

[DessertRat]

My wife and I currently live in Jersey City; we've been trying to move out west for a number of reasons. We were shooting for the Las Vegas area, because it's central to a lot of things we care about, but there's no way we're moving unless at least one of us has a job offer in the area first, and so far, we've had no luck trying to get jobs long distance in Vegas (although admittedly, I haven't yet worked at searching as diligently as I should).

So why am I here? Well, there's a possibility that my wife might be able to transfer to Southern California. She would need to visit clients in Orange County, but not all the time. We could live right in Orange County or LA, of course, but we prefer to live someplace a bit less crowded (hence one of the reasons we're looking to move in the first place). I don't know a lot about Riverside County, but based on the research I've done so far, and the places nearby that I do know, I think it's probably going to be our best bet (but maybe San Bernardino would be). So, any advice on the best place to look that's the closest to these ideals (the target locations do not have to match exactly):

(1) It has more of a rural feel than a suburban or urban feel.
(2) It's within not much more than an hour commute by car to Orange County. (less of a commute is fine, of course)
(3) It doesn't get too hot in the summer. (So I'm guessing something at a higher elevation if possible).
(4) Not ridiculously expensive (the lower the better, really, but I'd guess something not above, say, $230k MAX). We're also considering buying land and doing a manufactured home at first, because we'd like more property. We could build a better house on the land later.
(5) As close as possible to government owned nature areas with good hiking trails--mountains, forests and/or deserts. I especially love deserts, and Joshua Tree National Park and Death Valley National Park are two of my favorite places in the world. No matter where we are if in Riverside, it seems we won't be too far from Joshua Tree (I'm hoping a 90 minute drive at most), and Death Valley seems to be a relatively short trip for a weekend. I've only been to Mojave National Preserve briefly, so I'm looking forward to spending more time there, too, and I can't wait to check out Anza Borrego for the first time. Someplace that's kind of central to all these locations would be ideal.
(6) Something without an HOA if at all possible, or if we must belong to an HOA, the least restrictive one possible. I'm a pretty hardcore Libertarian and dislike the idea of HOAs.

What we don't care about:
(1) Schools. We do not have any school-aged children, and we're not going to have any. We're middle-aged.
(2) Having any (especially fancy) restaurants, stores, etc. nearby. We can drive to that stuff--we're not going to be that far from LA anyway. (An hour or so is not far to us).
(3) The typical community stuff--it's fine if there's not a strong neighborhood feel, if there are hardly any churches (I'm an atheist and my wife is Hindu (she's Indian)), etc. --we don't mind a stronger community feel as long as folks are pretty laissez-faire, but we're used to people not being friendly/neighborly (we live in metro NYC now after all in a very urban neighborhood), and we were hoping for something more rural anyway.
(4) Crime statistics. We've both lived plenty of places that the majority of people who frequent city-data.com would avoid because they think they're not safe based on crime statistics. Without getting into a debate about it, suffice it to say that we're not worried about this. Anyway, more rural areas are unlikely to have this as a big concern.

I had been looking at houses/properties in the Moreno Valley area and Lake Elsinore, but I don't know if those meet our criteria . . . we also found a couple great buys in Hemet, but that may be too far--it's difficult to judge commute times for the area just based on maps. It's also difficult to search online for property and homes in more rural areas/unincorporated areas, as online search forms almost always want a city, and there is none for those locations!

Feel free to pm me if you're a real estate agent for the area, too.

[nay624]

the more inland the hotter in the summer, unless you're in the mountians

[Niners fan]

I can't think of any place that would fit all of your criteria. Maybe you were expecting that to be the case. Here are some thoughts, for what they are worth:

You could find everything you are looking for in the mountains of Riverside County (Idyllwild area) except the proximity to OC. It is about 2 hours to OC without traffic.

Hemet is a decent area but gets over 100 degrees frequently in the summer. It is also about 90 minutes or so from OC without traffic. But you could find something in your price range and you could find a rural feel in the right spots there.

Moreno Valley would be okay but also gets hot in the summer. And the air quality is pretty bad there, worse than Hemet. But you would be less than an hour from OC without traffic. You could also find a rural feel in the NE side of town.

Have you looked at Lake Elsinore? That would put you much closer to OC, there are some trails in the area (possibly around the Ortega Hwy, definitely on the Santa Rosa Plateau. But it gets hot there too. I haven't seen prices there recently but you could find something rural.

What time of day would your wife be commuting? That will make a HUGE difference in travel time.

You are going to have to live with the heat, up your price range, or live farther from OC. If you give in on one of those 3 then you can probably find something that will meet your other 5 criteria.

[DessertRat]

Thanks, Niners. Having to deal with heat in the summers would be the first choice--just because we can't really compromise on the price and too long of a commute is going to be a bigger problem. We were going to have to deal with heat in the summers in Vegas, too--I just would prefer not to, lol. (But I grew up in South Florida with bad heat + humidity for most of the year, so I know I can deal with it.) Sounds like NE Moreno Valley and possibly Lake Elsinore are the best bets so far--those are the two areas I pinpointed initially, too.

[da jammer]

While it is really tough to be able to have it all I certainly wouldn't kick the little tiny "town" of Devore off your list of possible places. Just north of Berdoo, very quiet and rural..kinda "out in the boonies" feel but the 215/15 split is right there affording a decently acceptable commute into the OC/LA areas. Skiing, fishing, Glen Helen (or whatever they call it now) concert amphitheater, Little League Regional Championship field, off roading in the upper desert, Vegas...all kinds off stuff and you are right in the middle of it in Devore.

Down side....some pretty whack rainstorms roll through there on occasion

[DessertRat]

Originally Posted by da jammer

While it is really tough to be able to have it all I certainly wouldn't kick the little tiny "town" of Devore off your list of possible places. Just north of Berdoo, very quiet and rural..kinda "out in the boonies" feel but the 215/15 split is right there affording a decently acceptable commute into the OC/LA areas. Skiing, fishing, Glen Helen (or whatever they call it now) concert amphitheater, Little League Regional Championship field, off roading in the upper desert, Vegas...all kinds off stuff and you are right in the middle of it in Devore.

Down side....some pretty whack rainstorms roll through there on occasion

Sounds good, too, da jammer--I had overlooked that one, and this is just the kind of info I was hoping to get--small towns that I'm not familiar with that might be good choices. I see it's nestled right in the middle of the San Gabriel Mountains and the San Bernardino National Forest, so I'd probably like it. And the rainstorms actually sound good to me, too, lol--maybe it's that growing up in South Florida thing. I used to like those intense thunderstorms we'd get in the summer . . . anyway, going off to add "Devore" to the list.

[WhyNotSki]

I grew up in PA, lived in various places in Socal, now live in Utah but moving back to Socal. I have taken your preferences and responded to each of them.

(1) It has more of a rural feel than a suburban or urban feel.

Some areas of Wildomar have a rural feeling, as do some parts of Lake Elsinore and Murrieta, but you just have to find an area that you can feel comfortable. Although Temecula is nice, it is a bit crowded and can make people feel overwelmed. Be very careful when picking places in Lake Elsinore, as you may end-up in a neighborhood you will not enjoy or feel safe. There are very nice places in LE, but be careful. You may want to look in Mira Loma, as homes prices are coming down. The air quality is not the greatest, it does smell like Cow Poop pretty often (but if you want that rural feel, you smell it!)


(2) It's within not much more than an hour commute by car to Orange County. (less of a commute is fine, of course)

Well, I will be very honest here. I commuted from Temecula/Murrieta/Corona/Riverside/Mira Loma and others and the commute can be less than an hour if you are not commuting during rush hour. The drive from Corona to OC in rush hour can be between 45 to 90+ minutes, but really depends on the day, the time and where you are commuting from. If you want a LESS stressful environment, the commute from Riverside County to OC will not be that. In Southern California, you pay more for a shorter commute. If it is affordable, plan on driving more. There are affordable places in OC if you want to live in a dump.


(3) It doesn't get too hot in the summer. (So I'm guessing something at a higher elevation if possible).

If you are planning on moving to Las Vegas, then not many places in Riverside County are hotter than LV (with exception to Palm Springs). If you live in New Jersey, than you will think 80-90 is comfortable because there is practically no humidity.


(4) Not ridiculously expensive (the lower the better, really, but I'd guess something not above, say, $230k MAX). We're also considering buying land and doing a manufactured home at first, because we'd like more property. We could build a better house on the land later.

This is going to be your biggest challenge, however Southern Riverside County will be your best bet. I would not live in the Riverside/San Bernardino area based on previous experience, for one reason and one reason only....The Air Quality is some of the worst in the United States, Riverside/San Bernardino always ranks in the top five of worst air quality index almost annually. Murrieta/Wildomar are under 100K people, which for California is "more rural" than LA or OC. Home prices are coming down, and you can find plenty of homes under 300K these days.


(5) As close as possible to government owned nature areas with good hiking trails--mountains, forests and/or deserts. I especially love deserts, and Joshua Tree National Park and Death Valley National Park are two of my favorite places in the world. No matter where we are if in Riverside, it seems we won't be too far from Joshua Tree (I'm hoping a 90 minute drive at most), and Death Valley seems to be a relatively short trip for a weekend. I've only been to Mojave National Preserve briefly, so I'm looking forward to spending more time there, too, and I can't wait to check out Anza Borrego for the first time. Someplace that's kind of central to all these locations would be ideal.

Murrieta/Temecula/Wildomar are close to the Anza Borrego desert as well as only about 30 minutes from Mt Palomar area, which is a nice place to hike, bike or just get away. Palm Springs/Palm Desert is 90 minutes from all three of these places (I did this drive 4 days in a row on a business trip two weeks ago)

(6) Something without an HOA if at all possible, or if we must belong to an HOA, the least restrictive one possible. I'm a pretty hardcore Libertarian and dislike the idea of HOAs.

Temecula/Murrieta/Wildomar all have areas that do not have HOA's. Some HOA areas are less restricted than others.

So in conclusion, unfortunately you might be disappointed to find something nice in your price range, and if you do your commute will be a little longer than you plan. I plan on moving to Aguanga to a home on 2.5 acres, and my commute will be 90 minutes to just about all my customers, but when I get home, i will be able to relax without having my neighbor looking at me relax in my back yard and the air will be clean enough to not be affraid have my kids play outside. Good luck in our search...

[DessertRat]

Originally Posted by WhyNotSki

I grew up in PA, lived in various places in Socal, now live in Utah but moving back to Socal. I have taken your preferences and responded to each of them . . .

Thanks for the comments, WhyNotSki. I added Murrieta, Temecula and Wildomar to the short list (well, short so far, lol) of places to check out should this transfer come through for my wife.

I see you live in Utah now--that's actually higher on my preference list for places I'd like to live, but the problem is trying to get a job in my preferred locations there. Although I like Salt Lake City quite a bit, I'd prefer to live in the southern half of the state, somewhere around Salina or a bit south (Richfield, Elsinore, etc.), because it's a closer drive to all the national parks in the southern half of the state (on both the west and east sides). At this point in my life, being close to national parks and similar areas (like Anza Borrego) is very high on my list of desired features, and I love all the parks in southern Utah. If I could just find some job in a location like that that would enable a decent living (I do not need to get rich--and I don't want the stress and lack of leisure time that comes with trying to do that; I just need to be able to pay for food/shelter, etc.), that plus being able to spend weekends hiking and hanging out in national parks would be heaven on Earth to me.

That's one reason that Las Vegas is a strong possibility otherwise, as it's a big city with lots of job opportunities, plus it's closer than Salt Lake City to Zion, Cedar Breaks, Bryce Canyon, etc. (although unfortunately not a close drive at all to Canyonlands, Arches, etc., but on the other hand, it has the advantage of also enabling day/weekend trips to Death Valley, Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree, etc.) If I were younger, I would work on becoming a park ranger. However, I'm not sure it's very practical to start that at this point (I'm in my early 40s).

At any rate, coming back from fantasyland, there's far more of a chance that the SoCal transfer will come through for my wife. Thanks again.

[Unkllars]

The market is better in Utah as well! If the transfer is here though, that's where you need to be. SoCal is a great place to live

[pronetoidiocy]

Let me give you my opinion. I live in Riverside, and I absolutely love it. Of al the places I have been, this is definitely my favorite. I lived in Tooele, Utah for a short time but 3 months later moved back here. It does get hot in the summer, but if you can take the heat it is no big deal. And just my thoughts, I would not live in San Bernardino. I hate it there. Anyway, I think SoCal is a great choice. We're close to the beaches, and that is always a plus.