U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > San Bernardino and Riverside Counties
 [Register]
San Bernardino and Riverside Counties The Inland Empire
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-11-2008, 05:09 PM
 
2 posts, read 21,258 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

Hello!

We are looking to move into "The Preserve" this October but have since learned of some serious issues about the area. I'm interested to hear what others living there have experienced and any other information related to these concerns.

Questionables:

1. EMF Exposure from major 220KV & 500KV power lines, located within a quarter mile radius of our new potential home - increased risk of childhood leukemia. (We have a 3-yr. old and expect at least another new addition shortly after our move).

Table 1 - Electric and magnetic fields from devices found in the environment, home and workplace (from: Lee et al 1989, Florig 1987; WHO 1984, 1987) SOURCE ELECTRIC FIELD MAGNETIC FIELD Strength (kV/m) Strength (uT)
Natural fields (at 50 Hz) approx. 0.0000001 approx. 0.000001
500,000 volt transmission line - directly underneath 7 7 - 14 - edge of easement (20 m) 3 2.5 - 5 -at 100m from line 0.1 1 - 3
230,000 volt transmission line - directly underneath 2 3.5 - 7 - edge of easement (15 m) 1.5 1.5 - 3 - at 100 m from line 0.01 0.1 - 0.3
Household appliances at 30 cm -
Vacuum Cleaner 0.02 up to 20 -
Hairdryer 0.04 up to 7 -
Irons 0.06 up to 0.3 -
Toasters 0.04 up to 0.7 -
Electric shaver up to 9 - Television 0.03 up to 2 -
Electric blanket (at user distance) up to 2 up to 5 Homes (various rooms) up to 7 Workplace (distance in m) -
Induction heaters - (0.1 - 1) up to 65000 -
Ladle furnace (0.2 - 8) up to 8000 -
Arc furnace (2) up to 1000 -
VDT's (30 cm) up to 0.28

Electric Magnetic Fields In Your Environment (http://consumerlawpage.com/brochure/emf.shtml - broken link)

I plan to drive out to measure the exact distance from the edge of the utility easement (using a GPS) from my potential home in order to calculate the amount of exposure to this possible threat. This is also another reason why we decided not to move to Fontana's new master planned community.

2. A new SCE substation (66KV) proposed for construction and completion by summer of 2009 within a quareter mile radius of our new potential home. http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/Environment/i...et_9_19_06.pdf

3. Prop 65 - Detectable amounts of lead in the air from the Tamco steel mill located in Rancho Cucamonga (South of the 210, down through Chino - The Preserve).

4. Area of potential flooding - Prado Dam... while our potential property is not located on a fault line, the Prado Dam has one running diagonally through it. There is a potential risk for flooding, which will cause major problems to structural foundations. I believe separate flood and earthquake insurance is required.

5. Underground Plume located at the Chino airport and areas SW of the airport. Levels of trichloroethylene exceeding the maximum contaminant allowed in drinking water were found. "Trichloroethylene mainly affects the central nervous system (the brain), causing headache, nausea, dizziness, drowsiness, and other effects like those of being drunk. It can also damage facial nerves, and it can cause skin rash. Heavy exposure can damage the liver and kidneys. TCE causes cancer in animals and may cause cancer in humans." Ongoing efforts to cleanup this mess began on Oct. 31st, 1990 and has not yet been completed.

Other than these major issues, I feel the most troubling is the one dealing with EMF and the major power transmission lines, including the proposal of the new substation; all within a quarter mile of our new home.

I look forward to hearing any comments you may have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-12-2008, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Chino Hills
43 posts, read 165,173 times
Reputation: 19
I'd rather take an older house in Chino Hills. The houses in The Preserve look really nice, but at the end of the day, "Chino, California" isn't going to appreciate as much as Chino Hills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2008, 12:46 PM
 
7 posts, read 44,141 times
Reputation: 12
Mikey700,

Are you looking at the homes at Enchanted Forest? I am currently looking at those as well and seriously considering buying. I too have the same concerns but wasn't sure if those powerlines have that significant of an impact. Chuck22b, who lives in the Preserve and posts here from time to time may have some input on this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,097,206 times
Reputation: 535
Hi Mikey700 and Trapspeed,
Hope your visit to the Preserve was eventful. Going through our sales contract papers (there's a huge packet of papers to sign regarding "disclosures") and prior research into the area, I also found these issues to be of concern. In spite of them we continued and bought the house. Here are my reasonings and so far experience with the issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey700 View Post
Questionables:

1. EMF Exposure from major 220KV & 500KV power lines.
According to the charts if your past 300' from the power lines there is negligible exposure. Our community at the Mulberry's is way past that threshold so we weren't too worried about it. As for the Enchanted Forests/Shady Lane some of the units could be close to that boundary.

The health affects are debatable, but in terms of resale, I could see how close proximity to power towers could be an eye sore. The Preserve is fairly big (11+ communities), and depending on the community, you can be close or far from them. But, in the most part they seem acceptably distanced away.

That's also one of the main reason's we didn't go for the Edenglen development because of the visible power lines and sub-station behind the community.


2. A new SCE substation (66KV)
The new substation would actually help the area for future growth and expansion. From what I can tell from the site, it'll be well shielded from view, and appropriately distanced from homes. In where we used to live in Diamond Bar there's actually an Edison Sub-Station in a shopping plaza. I didn't even realize it was there until I read the writing on the wall.

3. Prop 65 - Detectable amounts of lead in the air from the Tamco steel mill
The plant is in the East side of Rancho Cucamonga and over ~18 miles from the Preserve. I'm sure anybody living in the Inland Basin would have exposure to it. Prop 65 is a warning on all the cancerous materials in the air/water/ etc.... I'm sure the plants in Anaheim, Orange, Tustin, City of Industry, Downtown LA, etc. and the rest of Orange, LA counties also emit some harmful materials. If you live in LA your going to get something in the air. Sadly, but true.

4. Area of potential flooding - Prado Dam... while our potential property is not located on a fault line, the Prado Dam has one running diagonally through it. There is a potential risk for flooding, which will cause major problems to structural foundations. I believe separate flood and earthquake insurance is required.
The nature reserve area (nesting ground for the native burrowing owls built by the developers) in the Preserve doubles as a flood catch basin. Because of that, we aren't required to have flood insurance. All of Southern California is Earthquake prone. The good thing about new developments is that they would have to follow the California Building Codes which are more stringent since the Northridge quake. Most of the Preserve is above the Flood Inundation zone. I think the future nature trails, bike trails, etc. are going to be more by the flood zone boundaries. A bonus of being close to the "Flood Lines" is that it should prevent any major developments South of the Preserve. That would help keep the area a green area. Also, I'm not too worried about being above the dam. I'll be more worried being bellow the dam.

5. Underground Plume located at the Chino airport and areas SW of the airport. Levels of trichloroethylene exceeding the maximum contaminant allowed in drinking water were found.
I think they have been working on this issue for some time. I'm pretty sure the water we're using out of the tap is safe or else there would be health violations or protests or something going on. Also the Inland Empire Utilities Agency is down the street and has water treatment plants, and are constantly monitoring and testing the water supply and other natural resources.

IEUA - Home
Chino Basin Watermaster - Home
So far none of the above concerns has affected us since living here. Of course they are long term and potential natural hazards that can't be measured until it happens. But it is good that you are being aware of them and that the builders are required to disclose them.

If you want more reading material and studies, you can find the Environmental Impact study and the overall specific plan for the Preserve. Overall, I feel that they did a lot of planning prior to building the place. Here's the link to the documents:

Chino Website - The Preserve (http://www.cityofchino.org/about/the_preserve.asp - broken link)

Hope this helps,
chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 05-12-2008 at 04:00 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,097,206 times
Reputation: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandiegan View Post
I'd rather take an older house in Chino Hills. The houses in The Preserve look really nice, but at the end of the day, "Chino, California" isn't going to appreciate as much as Chino Hills.
True for now... from what my wife and inlaws say, Chino Hills was a lot like Chino less than 15 years ago. So, for the price of a Chino place today, I could be living in a Chino Hills type place in the future? Who knows... but the future prospects so far look pretty good for the area.

-chuck22b
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2008, 12:12 AM
 
1 posts, read 17,892 times
Reputation: 13
Default Your nuts buying in the preserve

With the market falling apart buying in a half built development is like playing craps. What happens when the builders decide it's no longer profitable to plonk homes down out there? They will leave and you might end up stuck next to a large weed filled dirt field. Also, with the area being all new homes sold at the peak of the market, you can put money on a wave of foreclosures hitting the area real soon. Many of those new green lawns will turn brown as people stop paying the mortage. Take a look at Eastvale, it's foreclosure central. The Preserve will look like that very soon, as will most newer developments. What person is his right mind is going to keep paying a $700k mortgage when the value of the house has fallen to $400k?

Wait a year or two or buy in an established area. Prices are still falling like a brick thrown from tall building.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2008, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,097,206 times
Reputation: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFLG View Post
With the market falling apart buying in a half built development is like playing craps. What happens when the builders decide it's no longer profitable to plonk homes down out there? They will leave and you might end up stuck next to a large weed filled dirt field. Also, with the area being all new homes sold at the peak of the market, you can put money on a wave of foreclosures hitting the area real soon. Many of those new green lawns will turn brown as people stop paying the mortage. Take a look at Eastvale, it's foreclosure central. The Preserve will look like that very soon, as will most newer developments. What person is his right mind is going to keep paying a $700k mortgage when the value of the house has fallen to $400k?

Wait a year or two or buy in an established area. Prices are still falling like a brick thrown from tall building.
Sorry, but it irks me when I see someone that talks so badly about a place without actually seeing what's going on there now. Unlike many other communities, The Preserve doesn't rely on a single builder (11+ communities), and the Master Planner, Lewis Operating Group is a Private company (less investor pressure on profits NOW!) that has done numerous projects throughout the IE.

Feel free to wait... it's your choice... but the current situation at The Preserve isn't as dire as you've said. There are foreclosures... and newer areas are most likely going to be hit or have been hit harder than older areas... but as far as what I've seen... it doesn't look like we'll be sitting next to a dirt heap or an abandoned project anytime soon. My community is already built out and sold out and many of the others don't have any/few "sitting" new inventory. The Preserve, as a community also has an excess of 200k+ for Reserve Funding for running the HOA and facilities and the facilities are still operating compared to some of the other places that are bankrupt.

The City of Chino also has big plans for the Preserve and College Park Developments and has just completed a multi-million dollar expansion of Ayala park from 40 acres to 140 acres. Also, Chaffey College just opened and is in the process of constructing two additional large facilities for culinary and nursing schools. The City of Chino also has a large budget reserve on excess of ~14 million and is still bringing in more revenues than expenses. They are expanding the police and fire departments and continue to operate community development programs. Hence why Chino has earned it's rank in the 100 Best Communities for Young People Two out of Three Years.

The city is very involved with its' residents. A few weeks back about ~10 reps from Police, Planning, Public Works, Finance, Community Development, etc. came to the Preserve to talk about the City and it's plans for the area. The city does this all throughout Chino in it's "Chino Connects" program.

The City of Chino has built a new shopping center, Rancho Del Chino with a Home Depot and JC Penny with future plans for a La Quinta Inn. Furthermore, our neighbor in Chino Hills is continuing it's growth with the new Shoppes at Chino Hills Development, building of The Commons at Chino Hills, and their new civic buildings to be completed in the Fall. Growth in Chino Hills has filtered over to Chino.

Of course the housing slow down and "collapse" has affected the area and slowed things down. But I doubt growth will stop completely. That's mainly because Chino, Chino Hills, Corona, and Western IE aren't located completely out of range of major city/job centers and will continue to grow.

If you want, check out all the builders that are in The Preserve, they all don't have any or have limited amounts of sitting inventory. Standard Pacific, Parde Homes, Centex, Shea Homes, Brookfield Homes... and from what we see here everyday... there is constant construction and development going on. Also, it isn't a ghost town. The last count of total homes in The Preserve sold has gone up close to ~1800 units. With an estimated 3.5 people per household... that's about 6300 people living here.

Well, that's the current status of the place from my perspective by attending board meetings, city planning sessions, HOA meetings, and reading the news about the area. May the best communities survive the current housing down turn. Of course living in a new community is a risk... but you can mitigate your risks by doing research, and following demographic trends.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 06-11-2008 at 04:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2008, 07:22 PM
 
315 posts, read 96,597 times
Reputation: 54
Of course. Good old Chuck, the Preserver official cheerleader to the rescue.
There are several developments around the IE that I would be very hesitant to buy into. The preserve in Chino is a perfect example of this. There were BIG plans for this development but they are turning into a steaming pile of empty promises for the few residents that bought homes there. One perfect example is there are too few students to open the new schools. Children will have to be bused for miles now. You have to wonder if the builders will keep building or just pack it up, leaving residents living next to barren fields.

BTW...the Rancho del Chino has been open for several months and is having a hard time finding tenants. Chino hills mall will fare better as Chino Hills demographics are more supportive of an upscale mall than Chino. Lets face you live next to cows for a reason. I agree with the previous poster. The preserve will be sticky on the way down but there will be more foreclosures in the future. Dont kid yourself buddy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2008, 07:40 PM
 
315 posts, read 96,597 times
Reputation: 54
As you can see the preserve as of today has quiet a few FC and pre-FCs. Chuck, I dont understand why you equate a sold out community to not being impacted by the housing crisis happening in surrounding cities. Is it because you purchased at the peak and refuse to accept the reality of things to come?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,097,206 times
Reputation: 535
Hi Guys,
I never said there aren't any foreclosures. All I'm saying is that things aren't as bad as everybody says it is. If you go there now... you'll see on going construction and people moving in constantly. I mentioned sold out because not to long ago my community had over a dozen units that were sitting or haven't been sold. They weren't moving much from Oct - Feb.. but started picking up in March to sold out now. That means that there isn't much or any more "sitting" inventory... which from my understanding of supply and demand is good news.

Of course there are houses that are empty, bank-owned, etc. But, if new home inventory falls, then those will be the next units to go. Especially if they are significantly cheaper than the original purchase price.

Btw, from my count at Foreclosure Radar.com there are about 40 properties pre-foreclosure/bankowned/delinquent in The Preserve. So considering there being 1800 units (which btw isn't little), then 40/1800 = 2.2%. As far as I know, the delinquency/foreclosure rate in San Bernardino/Riverside is way higher ~ 4-10%

Foreclosure rate hits record high - Los Angeles Times

"The foreclosure rate was somewhat worse in California, with 2.23% of mortgages in foreclosure compared with 2.04% nationally. The delinquency rate was marginally better, with 5.39% of mortgages past due compared with 5.82% nationally."

So all in all, The Preserve has been hurt, but not dying. The HOA has a reserve fund and The City of Chino isn't bankrupt and has positive revenue streams and a large reserve. Anyhow, if you take realtytrac or foreclosureradar.com maps and put any town's zip code you'll be peppered with dots. Putting 91709 for Chino Hills pours out pages on pages of Pre-Foreclosures/Foreclosures.

So, yes, the market circumstances is hurting The Preserve and likewise many other developments and cities. But, I don't think it'll kill the project (why would the builders have to build if there wasn't any demand? - they just started picking up in building early this year a few months ago). The market conditions will hurt existing owners, but help new owners (with better credit and down payments) get into communities they weren't able to before. And, there is nothing wrong with having community/city pride of the place you live. I hope you like your community as much as I like mine.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 06-11-2008 at 08:19 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > San Bernardino and Riverside Counties
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top