Opinions on the I.E. (San Jose, Riverside: condos, mortgage, new home)

[chuck22b]

Yes, you guys are right that overall the education level in the IE has been fairly low... but it has been improving. Here's a news article from the Press Enterprise based on a report by the Public Policy Institute:
As state's growth leader, the Inland Empire reigns on, a new study says | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

"By 2015, the share of residents with less than a high school diploma will decline 1 percent. The share of residents with at least a bachelor's degree will increase just 2 percent."

Not stellar, but it's also because of the shear number of people growth, and the size/expanse of territory that encompasses the IE. You'll find higher education levels more concentrated in the Western parts of the IE vs. high-desert, eastern parts.

In my neighborhood, a lot of folks have college degrees or are self made entrepreneurs, law enforcement, have high levels of technical training, etc. So, it'll definitely depend on the neighborhood in the IE whether you meet white collar/technical types. Overall though, yes the levels are increasing but it'll depend on location.

I'm sure there are a lot of Phd's/Doctor types in Chino Hills... and maybe a few in Chino/Rancho Cucamonga/South Corona. It's good that the governing bodies in the IE are aware of this problem and building more educational facilities to increase the current levels.

Anyways, I'm not really a firm believer that everybody should have a four year degree. Think about all the kids that go to college that don't even want to be there or go there just to "party". A bunch of people with sociology degrees are far less useful to society than people learning technical/mechanical skills in trade schools. In Rancho, they have a huge facility by the Universal Technical Institute for mechanics training.

-chuck22b

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by sheri257

That was my experience as well. I'm sure the number of people with four year degrees is increasing but, overall, it's still probably a very small percentage of the overall population ... at least from what I saw.

Although that may change as the IE grows. It is the future growth area of the state so hopefully that would include college educated residents as well.

I've always debated whether the IE is the future OC or not. In a lot of ways it could be. On the other hand ... a lot of the business expansion seems to be blue collar related ... not white collar like what you see in Irvine.

You'll be surprised as to what goes on in board rooms. If companies are willing to save costs and move across the world... I'm sure as more technical/white collar labor force moves inland, the costs savings alone from moving from a very high cost area (Irvine/South OC) to the IE would have substantial savings effects on the bottom line. Why would companies pay exhorbant amounts for both labor, lease, and development? When they can get newer better facilities and lower labor, development costs. Especially as the economy slows... cost savings are areas where a lot of companies will look at.

South Corona and Rancho Cucamonga/Ontario has seen quite an expansion in office space/office facilities. Sooner or later... companies will put 2 and 2 together.

The issue isn't that the IE is the greatest place ever. It's that a good chunk of LA/OC is old, congested, and deteriorating... and the nice areas... South OC... West LA... North/East OC... are waaay too expensive and prohibitive.

-chuck22b

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by that1guy

The IE is following the path of OC. The IE is currently where OC was in the 1970s. It's in a transition state of white, middle class, blue collar and diverse, lower/middle/upper classes, more white collar. The OC in the 1970s was not the end all be all today. The IE will develop nicely as population center, just like the OC.

The IE core economy is built around transportation ... i.e. like the Long Beach port-railway expansion out in the High Desert. If those kinds of expansions continue then you're looking at mostly blue collar jobs and a blue collar population.

The question is whether the big companies will start locating in the IE like they did in Irvine. Some of the elements are there but not necessarily all of them ...

The IE is cheap, it's got multiple interstate access, room to grow and it's got the Ontario airport. That's on the plus side. The down side is that it's just as congested as OC and it lacks OC weather as well as the quality of life that attracts executive talent (who makes these decisions). It also lacks the universities and college educated population necessary for white collar jobs.

But who knows? The OC was once very blue collar so maybe it will happen. But OC was a no brainer ... the weather was great and it was a great place to live. The IE doesn't necessarily have the same appeal in that regard.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

South Corona and Rancho Cucamonga/Ontario has seen quite an expansion in office space/office facilities. Sooner or later... companies will put 2 and 2 together.

-chuck22b

Yeah but, you've also got to look at who's filling those offices. You're not seeing the major corporate presence like you do in Irvine ...

Like I said ... maybe it will happen ... but I wouldn't bet on it either.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by sheri257

The IE core economy is built around transportation ... i.e. like the Long Beach port-railway expansion out in the High Desert. If those kinds of expansions continue then you're looking at mostly blue collar jobs and a blue collar population.

The question is whether the big companies will start locating in the IE like they did in Irvine. Some of the elements are there but not necessarily all of them ...

The IE is cheap, it's got multiple interstate access, room to grow and it's got the Ontario airport. That's on the plus side. The down side is that it's just as congested as OC and it lacks OC weather as well as the quality of life that attracts executive talent (who makes these decisions). It also lacks the universities and college educated population necessary for white collar jobs.

But who knows? The OC was once very blue collar so maybe it will happen. But OC was a no brainer ... the weather was great and it was a great place to live. The IE doesn't necessarily have the same appeal in that regard.

Your right... the executive types are the ones that make the decision. And since they live down in South OC AND East OC, more than likely they don't want the long commute (Western IE can meet the needs of the East OC Executives).

The main hopes for the IE for future development will lie with the next wave of new companies and innovations. Mainly the clean tech/alt energy economy. In that regards, the IE has the land, facilities, labor, and education (Cal Poly Pomona and UC Riverside are engineering colleges) to succeed. Maybe the IE will be the engineering heartland of Southern California. White-collar doesn't just mean tech/finance work. Also, with the retired communities mostly located here... maybe some medical can also be moved into the IE.

I agree with MIKEETC... that land equals opportunity.... and engineers need land and "middle" class labor to work with. Hmm.... isn't infrastructure/clean tech on both Presidential Candidate's agenda?

-chuck22b

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

You'll be surprised as to what goes on in board rooms. If companies are willing to save costs and move across the world... I'm sure as more technical/white collar labor force moves inland, the costs savings alone from moving from a very high cost area (Irvine/South OC) to the IE would have substantial savings effects on the bottom line. Why would companies pay exhorbant amounts for both labor, lease, and development?

Here's the problem, just as an example ...

Companies pay exobitant amounts of money to be located in Silicon Valley because ....

1) the weather is great and it's a fantastic place to live
2) it's literally the tech mecca of the world
3) you've got Stanford and these great universities churning out incredible talent
4) and ... you've got incredible talent moving there from all over the world

Companies aren't going to find those kinds of things in inland California towns like Fresno or the IE.

Now ... Fresno and IE are a lot cheaper than Silicon Valley ... but they're not as cheap as places like Texas or Alabama. There, you've got the same shot of getting an educated work force out of state as you've got with inland California at, more than likely, half the price.

So if a company is primarily looking for cheap ... the IE has a lot of competition in that department.

I have no doubt that the IE is going to grow ... I'm just not sure it's going to attract the same job quality that you would find in places like Irvine or Silicon Valley.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by sheri257

Here's the problem, just as an example ...

Companies pay exobitant amounts of money to be located in Silicon Valley because ....

1) the weather is great and it's a fantastic place to live
2) it's literally the tech mecca of the world
3) you've got Stanford and these great universities churning out incredible talent
4) and ... you've got incredible talent moving there from all over the world

Companies aren't going to find those kinds of things in inland California towns like Fresno or the IE.

Now ... Fresno and IE are a lot cheaper than Silicon Valley ... but they're not as cheap as places like Texas or Alabama. There, you've got the same shot of getting an educated work force out of state as you've got with inland California at, more than likely, half the price.

So if a company is primarily looking for cheap ... the IE has a lot of competition in that department.

I have no doubt that the IE is going to grow ... I'm just not sure it's going to attract the same job quality that you would find in places like Irvine or Silicon Valley.

I hope not... we don't really need more "finance" jobs... and finance "wizzes".... America needs to rebuild its' production economy. And that would start by building more, designing more, innovating more here in America.

Texas and California are very different creatures... and have a whole different set of arguments. Also comparing Fresno to the IE is odd too. Fresno is over a hundred miles from Silicon Valley and almost 200 miles from San Fran with less than Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowedhalf a million people... Southern California also has a significantly larger population than all of the rest of California (The whole bay area has about 7 million people , while Southern California has close to 23 million... the most populous city in Texas was Houston with around 2 million - yr 2000).

The Western Parts of the IE to South OC is less than 25 miles, and the further points of Riverside to South OC is less than 50 miles. Western IE to North/East OC are neighbors (Brea/Yorba Linda/Anaheim Hills (Executive talent locations)). Furthermore, the IE has easier access to downtown LA than South OC. We're totally forgetting LA in all of this analysis.

Weather isn't dramatically different in the IE compared to inner LA/OC or Burbank, etc. And the typical salary for white collar jobs can't even cover the exhorbant costs of living in South OC (unless you think everybody makes over 200k working as accountants, software engineers, marketing, finance, etc.). How are all those "executives" going to keep the talent... when the talent can't even afford to live down there?

Furthermore, competing against other States, Southern California weather by far beats most any State in the Country. As for the IE, the winds, the flat land, geothermal, mountains, rivers, sun, etc. are great resources as test beds for future clean tech/alt energy companies. Where else in the States can you find such variety?

Anyhow, who knows what's going to happen in the future... maybe America will go down the tube... but... if America is returning back to basics and heading back toward a production economy... the IE will be an integral part of the Southern California economy.

After all, it's China/India and East Asia that's growing. California holds to benefit the most from the growth of these countries being the western most State with harbors and airways already transacting with Asia. Maybe the IE will become the engineering, manufacturing, industrial strong-hold that will export more overseas... then importing in. There are already seeds planted in the region heading that direction.

-chuck22b

[dude25]

I.E. is not getting any better

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by dude25

I.E. is not getting any better

Wow, so insightful.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

Weather isn't dramatically different in the IE compared to inner LA/OC or Burbank, etc.

LOL ... Ok Chuck ... if you say so.

Look: when I moved to the IE, I wanted it to be the next OC also ... because I had just moved from OC and that was all I could afford at the time.

But after living there five years I realized wishing wasn't going to make it happen. Yeah ... there was a lot of building and expansion but not for the kind of jobs and projects that would make it the next OC.

Maybe that will change but, if it didn't happen during the boom it's not likely to happen during a recession either. Some places are just the way they are and there's nothing you can do about it.

All of this relentless cheerleading must be exhausting for you so ... I'll let you have the last word.