Opinions on the I.E. (San Diego, Anaheim: renting, appliances, buying a home)

[vegaspilgrim]

This thread just caught my eye. Interesting discussion going on-- reminds me of a thread a started a year ago, http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-b...n-compare.html. I'm curious why a business, a family, an individual would move to the IE just to say you live in SoCal-- when if you go just another 5 hours east on the 10, you could live in Phoenix-- which still has palm trees, in-n-out burger, El Pollo Loco, spanish tile roofs, brown hills, deserts-- the whole works. Why live in a congested, smog trap, appendage of an overbuilt, overcrowded, overrated city (LA) and STILL pay up the nose for it when if you can handle even it a bit hotter, you could have a much better environment for an even lower price-- only instead of calling it "Southern California" it's named "central Arizona"??? I just don't get it.

[SoCal Bottom Rider]

I will speak to housing. Why move to PHX for affordable housing if you can get it know in Inland empire? My parents are retired in Tucson. Have aunts in Phx. No way in hell I would move to hell. sucks a$$!!!

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

This thread just caught my eye. Interesting discussion going on-- reminds me of a thread a started a year ago, http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-b...n-compare.html. I'm curious why a business, a family, an individual would move to the IE just to say you live in SoCal-- when if you go just another 5 hours east on the 10, you could live in Phoenix-- which still has palm trees, in-n-out burger, El Pollo Loco, spanish tile roofs, brown hills, deserts-- the whole works. Why live in a congested, smog trap, appendage of an overbuilt, overcrowded, overrated city (LA) and STILL pay up the nose for it when if you can handle even it a bit hotter, you could have a much better environment for an even lower price-- only instead of calling it "Southern California" it's named "central Arizona"??? I just don't get it.

Eh?

Maybe because people move to certain places for subjective reasons that are not easily 'quantifiable'. And/or they are moving here for a combination of reasons. Or maybe they're doing it for reasons of their own that don't fit your criteria. Lastly, maybe some of us were already here so we didn't actually move here.

Keep in mind, people have chosen Phoenix as opposed to SoCal. Phoenix is growing rapidly, too; the argument could be reversed. Bottom line is people choose what they choose. Your 'getting it' is not a prerequisite for other people's choices.

[alf8mycat]

I think the appeal of the IE is that it's an hour away from everything.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

This thread just caught my eye. Interesting discussion going on-- reminds me of a thread a started a year ago, http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-b...n-compare.html. I'm curious why a business, a family, an individual would move to the IE just to say you live in SoCal-- when if you go just another 5 hours east on the 10, you could live in Phoenix-- which still has palm trees, in-n-out burger, El Pollo Loco, spanish tile roofs, brown hills, deserts-- the whole works. Why live in a congested, smog trap, appendage of an overbuilt, overcrowded, overrated city (LA) and STILL pay up the nose for it when if you can handle even it a bit hotter, you could have a much better environment for an even lower price-- only instead of calling it "Southern California" it's named "central Arizona"??? I just don't get it.

As I recall Phoenix has plenty of smog ... and heat too.

[ConsideringLA]

Originally Posted by that1guy

My point was not to say that the IE is like OC or LA, but rather we are not some backward hick region. Socal, my bro works as an executive in the IT field, I do also have A LOT of insight into the field. I have friends that work IT in the IE, my neighbors work in IT in the IE...so again LOTS of IE IT!!! Abbott expanded in Temecula, not IT, but biotech. IT layoffs are ALL over. I mean you industry, you heard of what happened to the OC office of Micron, right? Well, let's just say that it wasn't pretty. Part of the reason that they went under was their overhead on the rent on their office.

Actually, why can't the IE compete with LA or the OC? If the OC competed with LA (which many people felt that it would remain suburbia forever, now with highrise condos being built in Irvine), then the IE can to. Yes I undersand the whole ocean arguement...but economics plays a greater role. Had it not, then IE would not have seen the gains in the first place. Another thing, while San Jose was losing jobs, the IE was GAINING jobs in IT. So it was competing against SILICON VALLEY!!! A much bigger fish than LA. LA has a relatively small (in terms of percentage) IT sector.

Also the focus was on white collar jobs in general using IT jobs as a sort of bellweather. \

In closing, due to proximity to urban areas, viable clean living areas, cheap rent, great univerisites, the IE is a very good place for businesses.

Do a quick search for "SQL" or "Active Directory" jobs near Riverside on indeed.com (google-like job search engine).

Do the same searches for Burbank or Irvine.

There are 7x-10x the IT job postings in the LA area than IE.

Why?

Executives make $$$ and they put the corp HQ near their homes. IT jobs in large numbers are at the corp HQ.

Are there exceptions to all this? Sure.

But I haven't yet seen the IE skyline full of tall buildings.

Just some distribution facilities around Ontario.

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Do a quick search for "SQL" or "Active Directory" jobs near Riverside on indeed.com (google-like job search engine).

Do the same searches for Burbank or Irvine.

There are 7x-10x the IT job postings in the LA area than IE.

Why?

Executives make $$$ and they put the corp HQ near their homes. IT jobs in large numbers are at the corp HQ.

Are there exceptions to all this? Sure.

But I haven't yet seen the IE skyline full of tall buildings.

Just some distribution facilities around Ontario.

Wow...did the read the post you quoted? No? Well, here it is again? I simply stated that IT jobs are growing faster in the Inland region. Not that there are more IT jobs in the Inland Empire. You are right, there are no skyscreapers in the IE...but wait...wasn't it in the IE that had a faster rate of office construction than in LA? Is it because white collar workers would rather pay 300-400k for a house close to their job than 500-600k?

Sorry for the sarcasm...bad day today...I digress. Execs realize that housing options are good in the IE. They realize that it's cheaper to put an office in the IE as compared to the OC, LA, or SD. That's why in 2006 the IE had more office starts than SD and LA (not the entire county of LA just LA city...same population as the entire IE). Also the IE had a lower vacancy rate in 2006. If you can save on overhead...which they did and can...then why not? The workers of these companies are moving further east due to cheap, nice homes (Corona, Rancho Cucamonga, and Ontario are more akin to Orange County cities than traditional IE cities due to move eastward...hence why Redlands, Riverside, Moreno Valley, Perris, are two years behind the curve). It's a matter of costs, and many non-logistic companies are taking note (obviosly logistic companies as well, but also IT sector jobs.)

[ConsideringLA]

Originally Posted by that1guy

Wow...did the read the post you quoted? No? Well, here it is again? I simply stated that IT jobs are growing faster in the Inland region. Not that there are more IT jobs in the Inland Empire. You are right, there are no skyscreapers in the IE...but wait...wasn't it in the IE that had a faster rate of office construction than in LA? Is it because white collar workers would rather pay 300-400k for a house close to their job than 500-600k?

Sorry for the sarcasm...bad day today...I digress. Execs realize that housing options are good in the IE. They realize that it's cheaper to put an office in the IE as compared to the OC, LA, or SD. That's why in 2006 the IE had more office starts than SD and LA (not the entire county of LA just LA city...same population as the entire IE). Also the IE had a lower vacancy rate in 2006. If you can save on overhead...which they did and can...then why not? The workers of these companies are moving further east due to cheap, nice homes (Corona, Rancho Cucamonga, and Ontario are more akin to Orange County cities than traditional IE cities due to move eastward...hence why Redlands, Riverside, Moreno Valley, Perris, are two years behind the curve). It's a matter of costs, and many non-logistic companies are taking note (obviosly logistic companies as well, but also IT sector jobs.)

I get the promise of cost savings ... but you have to appreciate the mindset of the execs. When you live in Malibu or Pacific Palisades, Rancho Cucamonga is in a different state. And if you're after cost savings, why stay in California at all ???

Sure there's some uptake. But it's laughable.

Help me out on this one... who are the major employers in the IE? Here's from your beloved resource:

1. County of San Bernardino
   San Bernardino, 909-387-2020
2. National Training Center
   Fort Irwin, 760-380-3369
3. Loma Linda University
   Loma Linda, 909-558-1000
4. U.S. Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center (broken link)
   Twenty nine Palms, 760-830-5476
5. San Bernardino City Unified School District
   San Bernardino, 909-381-1000
6. Stater Bros.
   Colton, 909-783-5000
7. Ontario International Airport
   Ontario, 909-973-2700
8. Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
   479-237-4000
9. Kaiser Permanente
   Fontana, 909-427-5000
10. UPS
    800-742-5877

When you take government and schools out of the mix, you've got... STATER BROTHERS in COLTON. The next largest employer (unless you work at the airport) is... WAL-MART (those greeters get great benefits I'm sure). And if you're not a nurse or a doc at Kaiser, you can work at a distribution facility at #10 UPS.

I can understand the gov't employers being large, but Stater Bros is the largest non-gov't employer in the entire IE ?!?!


Yeah, the employers are heading there in droves. Watch out 10 fwy - traffic is about to change directions !!!

[that1guy]

Different state? Since when was going 30 miles inland considered a different state? Laughable? So that's why it made bigger gains than LA? OK...Nice list...but really it mirrors the ocean counties as well...here's LA's list:
Largest Employers... wow!!! Look it kind of mirrors San Bernardino...Who would have thought that?

[SIZE=2]County of Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]93,200[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]93,354[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles Unified School District[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]74,632[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]80,802[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Federal Government*[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]53,200[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]56,100[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]University of California, Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]35,543[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]36,354[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]City of Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]53,471[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]51,150[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]State of California (non-education)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]30,200[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]32,300[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Kaiser Permanente[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Pasadena[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]32,180[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]27,635[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Northrop Grumman Corp.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]21,000[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]10,000[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Boeing Co.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Long Beach[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]15,825[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]23,468[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Kroger Co. (former Ralph's Grocery Co.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]14,000**[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]17,211[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]University of Southern California[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]12,379[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]9,297[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Bank of America[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Los Angeles[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]12,200[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]11,943[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Vons[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Arcadia[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]12,116[/SIZE][SIZE=2]N/A[/SIZE][SIZE=2]Target[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Pasadena[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]12,066[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]10,993[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Walt Disney Co.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Burbank[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]N/A[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]11,200[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Metropolitan Transit Authority (L.A. Co.)[/SIZE]

Ok... I will give you Boeing and Northrup Gruman... Vons? Ralphs? Target? hmm.... Geez...something fishy. Oh wait, that's because the largest employers typically are the same largest employers in every county. I wonder why? It might be due to the fact that the majority of people do not have a 4-yr degree (In Orange County, it hovers at at 65% of people do not...). Bad logic dude.

Okay now demographics 101 has taken off, it's important to look at trends. Trends show that businesses are moving east. It only takes a second to notice new office buildings in Ontario. Wait office buildings? New? I wonder what people do in said buildings? Maybe work in a white collar position...nah...that makes too much sense.

Look Southern California was built on a nodal system. That's why LA doesn't have a central downtown...(Yes there is downtown LA, but also Warner Center, Glendale, Burbank, Santa Monica, Westwood, Miracle Mile, Century City) there issuppossed to be a collection of downtown centers with housing surrounding them. Hence why there are jobs coming out here. It fits with the plan. Ontario, Riverside, Rancho are nodes for the Inland Region...surrounded by outlying communities. It's simple demography.

As for people headed east for work...nice try on sarcasm...but again flawed. It relates to the nodal system in place from around the 70s. These nodes are not going anywhere, but 3 million people are moving eastward to the IE. So, why wouldn't a company move to where it's base of people are moving too?

I have question, why is it that the IE had the fastest rate of IT job creation in the state? Or why did the IE have the largest increase in its college educated population? Surely, there is rationale explination. Maybe again, because there is cheap land that is not an entirely different state (I've never met anyone who thought the Pacific Palisades and Rancho Cucamonga were so different that they ought to be in different states. I have several friends in both areas.) Maybe this cheap land is in such close proximity to America's second largest city.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

I get the promise of cost savings ... but you have to appreciate the mindset of the execs. When you live in Malibu or Pacific Palisades, Rancho Cucamonga is in a different state. And if you're after cost savings, why stay in California at all ???

I agree.