Opinions on the I.E. (Anaheim, Riverside: home, employment, buying)

[ConsideringLA]

Ok... I will give you Boeing and Northrup Gruman... Vons? Ralphs? Target? hmm.... Geez...something fishy. Oh wait, that's because the largest employers typically are the same largest employers in every county. I wonder why? It might be due to the fact that the majority of people do not have a 4-yr degree (In Orange County, it hovers at at 65% of people do not...). Bad logic dude.

When you look at the population of the list of major employers and compare IE vs LA, the mix of private sector blue chip companies vs. public sector employers is startling.

Which blue chips are headquartered in the IE? I hear Crickets...

LA? Hmm...

Toyota USA
Honda Motors USA
Disney
20th Century Fox
Paramount Pictures
Univision
Capital Group
21st century Insurance
Premier America
Gibson
Dunn & Crutcher
Guess?
O’Melveny & Myers
Robinsons-May
Sunkist Growers

And countless others.

Okay now demographics 101 has taken off, it's important to look at trends. Trends show that businesses are moving east. It only takes a second to notice new office buildings in Ontario. Wait office buildings? New? I wonder what people do in said buildings? Maybe work in a white collar position...nah...that makes too much sense.

These are merely distribution or satellite offices - small presence and small potatoes compared to major operations or HQ. Are some businesses moving east? Yep - generally out of the state. Again, think like you're a CEO living on the westside. If you're going to relocate the HQ, why stop at Riverside? Go all the way to AZ or NV and really drive down costs.

Look Southern California was built on a nodal system. That's why LA doesn't have a central downtown...(Yes there is downtown LA, but also Warner Center, Glendale, Burbank, Santa Monica, Westwood, Miracle Mile, Century City) there issuppossed to be a collection of downtown centers with housing surrounding them. Hence why there are jobs coming out here. It fits with the plan. Ontario, Riverside, Rancho are nodes for the Inland Region...surrounded by outlying communities. It's simple demography.

As for people headed east for work...nice try on sarcasm...but again flawed. It relates to the nodal system in place from around the 70s. These nodes are not going anywhere, but 3 million people are moving eastward to the IE. So, why wouldn't a company move to where it's base of people are moving too?

There is an excess of housing in IE because dirt is, well, dirt cheap. I appreciate that there is a large base of skilled workers there. But there is simply an excess supply of workers for available jobs. Period. Remember, I'm an IE native and went to university and grad school in IE. Tried for 3 years to get employment in IE while receiving numerous job offers on the coastal side of the state... I finally gave up in 2006 and moved to where the jobs are !

I have question, why is it that the IE had the fastest rate of IT job creation in the state? Or why did the IE have the largest increase in its college educated population? Surely, there is rationale explination.

This is meaningless. "Fastest rate?" So there were 100 jobs last year, now there are 150 jobs. That's a 50% increase !!! WOW!!!!

Again, do a quick search for "SQL" or "Active Directory" jobs near Riverside on Indeed or Simply Hired. Now compare the same query for, say, Burbank.

It's 7-10x the jobs on the Burbank query compared to Riverside. To make matters worse, you're competing with a ton of hungry commuters for those jobs, so the gigs pay less.

At the end of the day, the traffic jams heading west on all the respective IE freeways tell the tale: an inadequate supply of jobs for the millions of souls in the IE.

[SoCal Bottom Rider]

'At the end of the day, the traffic jams heading west on all the respective IE freeways tell the tale: an inadequate supply of jobs for the millions of souls in the IE.'

Bottom line and nuff said!
I work out here in IT middle management. I was able to negotiate an LA or OC salary range but from experience and research, most IT positions pay less.

And those new offices that popped up everywhere..what make you come to the conclusion those are white collar jobs? Mostly clerical and RE related. Most of the Kaiser satellite offices are related to medical billing, blue collar, hourly pay.

[SoCal Bottom Rider]

form wikipedia..dont be one of the majority demographics!

'There is a trend of lower educational attainment in the IE, which starts early. Only 37% of 3- and 4-year olds in the region are enrolled in pre-school, with only one school in the region for every 343 children, as compared to 48% enrollment in San Diego County. 35% of the IE's ninth graders do not graduate from high school, and only 37% of its college age residents enroll in a post-secondary education program of some sort. Only 24% of the IE's adult residents have attained a college degree or better. 25% do not possess a high school diploma.[18] According to CSUSB President Al Karnig, "We have a very low college attendance rate that is scantly above half of what the average is in other states. We have only have about 20 percent college graduates in the Inland Empire while the average in other states is 38 percent."[34][35] 21 inland area high schools rank in the top 100 in California for producing dropouts.[36]'

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Help me out on this one... who are the major employers in the IE? Here's from your beloved resource:

I listed largest employers for LA County...not what is headquarted in LA. The conclusion that came to white collar jobs is that if it was agreed upon by demographers and the US census that again...the IE is a rapidly growing IT region...wouldn't it be a fair assumption that offices are housing IT jobs? Most would agree. The statement of 35% of IE's n 9th graders not graduating from the region, may stem from a transitory nature of Southern California. Because it only makes sense that if there is a higher proportion of people in a given area that have a high school diploma, then they must be graduating. (Not GED, but diploma). In San Diego County, only 55% of students graduate... USATODAY.com - Big-city schools struggle with graduation rates but we know that the majority of people above the age of 25 have a high school education. So a high possibility, which I even heard at a conference in CSUSB concerning San Bernardino city and high school graduation, is that shifting from school to school skews the numbers. Typically, the method in which the studies are done, is that they track the individual at a given school. Thus, the rate is based per school. If John went to Riverside Unified in 9th grade, but ended up in Temecula Unified, then John, according to the studies 'dropped out'. In reality, John graduated from Temecula.

Why would a person move there headquarters from the nations second largest metro to Phoenix? Silex corp is planning to move back west because they realized that cost is GREATER in Salt Lake City. Not only rent wise, but also infrastructure is better here in terms of shipping products, designing said products is on the west coast, and also greater proximity to the Asian market.

I am an IE native as well, who has seen the changes. Many of my friends from UCSB, UCI, UCR, have taken (in the past, prior to the economic meltdown) have taken lucrative postions in the IE. It was cheaper to live in the IE, and thus, a small pay (a few thousand off). There is a market that has grown. As the universities in the region grow, companies will and have taken notice. Actually there are currently about 25,000 IT jobs in the IE. Not much granted, but still more than the 150 jobs. Meaning that it is significant.

I have done searches for LA, OC, SD, IE. Yes there are more IT jobs... THAT NEVER WAS MY POINT. Hence why I posted the question that did you read my post? I simply stated that there is a growing field. Not there is way more IT and white collar jobs in the IE.

If the nations average is about 27% for bachelors and the IE is currently running at 24%...then how is that "scantly above half of what the average is in other states."? That's a 3% point difference. California's bachelors attainment is roughly 29%...from the US census. If going from your figures of 24% in the IE and 29% from the census for California, that is 5% less...not scantly below. Below for the state, yes. Below compared to OC, SD, SF...yes. But in order to be scantly below half...it needs to be below 14%. Otherwise, it's about 17 percent less...or 5 percentage points less.

If there is traffic heading west for IT jobs...then companies would move further east. This happened in OC during the 1960s and 1970s. Companies moved further south. San Diego was a podunk town when my dad lived there. Center of biotech. It's a progression. Not a staid, set in stone, thing.

Maybe we are all saying the same thing...maybe you don't understand what I'm saying. But at the end of the day, ALL I STATED WAS THAT THE REGION IS GROWING IN TERMS OF WHITE COLLAR JOBS. I am NOT saying that the region has MORE jobs. Simply, there is job growth to be had.

Actually I'm currently looking at Abbott, Watson, Johnson and Johnson (yes bio/pharma...not IT). These have regional offices here.

[ConsideringLA]

that1guy:

I suppose my bitterness comes from believing everything you have said, attaining 2 advanced degrees from Univ of La Verne, buying a home in Chino Hills, then struggling long and hard to "live the dream" and work in the IE.

I worked closely with my school's career center. I networked. I was tied in close with Claremont Grad U., Univ of La Verne, and UCR (incidentally, Claremont Grad Univ's "CIO Roundtable" for IE IT leaders was cancelled last year due to lack of available IT leaders in the area). I have an IT skillset that pays very well and was gainfully employed in an NYSE-traded company in OC with a 5+ year tenure and 10 years experience.

In 2006, I literally turned down 3 solid offers from firms in downtown LA, Anaheim, and Mission Viejo - hell bent on working closer to home. After beating my head against IE's IT employment wall, I gave up and accepted a position near the coast (better pay, advancement, etc.). I continued my commute struggle on 91 and missed precious time with my 2 little ones for 6 months, came home one night, looked at my wife and said "I'm DONE." We listed our home, sold it in 2 months (thankfully good timing) and moved closer to work, giving up 600 square feet in home size at the same cost. Oh, gas, insurance, and home-based energy costs went way down.

That 600 square feet pales in significance to time spent with family.

Again, if you can live/work/play in the IE, I'm envious. But for the rest of the folks dreading the 210/10/91 freeways, there's a better way - downsize and find a community closer to work.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

that1guy:

I suppose my bitterness comes from believing everything you have said, attaining 2 advanced degrees from Univ of La Verne, buying a home in Chino Hills, then struggling long and hard to "live the dream" and work in the IE.

I worked closely with my school's career center. I networked. I was tied in close with Claremont Grad U., Univ of La Verne, and UCR (incidentally, Claremont Grad Univ's "CIO Roundtable" for IE IT leaders was cancelled last year due to lack of available IT leaders in the area). I have an IT skillset that pays very well and was gainfully employed in an NYSE-traded company in OC with a 5+ year tenure and 10 years experience.

In 2006, I literally turned down 3 solid offers from firms in downtown LA, Anaheim, and Mission Viejo - hell bent on working closer to home. After beating my head against IE's IT employment wall, I gave up and accepted a position near the coast (better pay, advancement, etc.). I continued my commute struggle on 91 and missed precious time with my 2 little ones for 6 months, came home one night, looked at my wife and said "I'm DONE." We listed our home, sold it in 2 months (thankfully good timing) and moved closer to work, giving up 600 square feet in home size at the same cost. Oh, gas, insurance, and home-based energy costs went way down.

That 600 square feet pales in significance to time spent with family.

Again, if you can live/work/play in the IE, I'm envious. But for the rest of the folks dreading the 210/10/91 freeways, there's a better way - downsize and find a community closer to work.

It sounds like your an educated and good guy. Sorry if it seems like I labeled you otherwise but you basically belittled what I consider my home.

Anyhow... you lived in Chino Hills, which like Sol Cal Bottom Rider said in another post is one of the cream of the crop cities in the IE with actually higher home prices than a lot of cities in LA/OC. So of course for you the only difference between OC and IE is a smaller place at the same price.

For many, the choice is between having a small, old place in the slums of OC... or renting a very small place in a nicer area. The pay scales in the OC compared to the IE IS NOT a 50% difference. Homes on the other hand have a 50% difference (IE and OC - 215 vs. 440).

So the quality of life in the financial sense is way more sensible living in the IE. Especially if your commute time may only be 15-20 mins more.

Even in the OC the number of jobs for the educated and highly skilled that pay livable wages are limited. There may be more jobs... but most aren't even close to paying enough for a family to live in the OC. Unless pay rises (which I doubt), or cost of living fall (possible), most will still consider the IE as a very sensible and viable solution than living in the OC or LA.

-chuck22b

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by that1guy

Why would a person move there headquarters from the nations second largest metro to Phoenix? Silex corp is planning to move back west because they realized that cost is GREATER in Salt Lake City. Not only rent wise, but also infrastructure is better here in terms of shipping products, designing said products is on the west coast, and also greater proximity to the Asian market.

You can't compare Salt Lake City to Phoenix. Metro Phoenix is almost four times as big as all of SLC metro, and Phoenix is only about a 5-7 hour drive from LA, depending on exactly where in LA/ OC/ IE and the traffic conditions. Phoenix is a major transit hub, both east-west across the continent and also for goods coming in from Mexico. Like I said before, Phoenix has so many influences from SoCal-- practically half the population there is from SoCal anyway.

[vegaspilgrim]

So far all this talk about jobs in the IE-- what about for accountants? Any major accounting firms (and related business services) with large offices in the IE?

[ConsideringLA]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

It sounds like your an educated and good guy. Sorry if it seems like I labeled you otherwise but you basically belittled what I consider my home.

Anyhow... you lived in Chino Hills, which like Sol Cal Bottom Rider said in another post is one of the cream of the crop cities in the IE with actually higher home prices than a lot of cities in LA/OC. So of course for you the only difference between OC and IE is a smaller place at the same price.

For many, the choice is between having a small, old place in the slums of OC... or renting a very small place in a nicer area. The pay scales in the OC compared to the IE IS NOT a 50% difference. Homes on the other hand have a 50% difference (IE and OC - 215 vs. 440).

So the quality of life in the financial sense is way more sensible living in the IE. Especially if your commute time may only be 15-20 mins more.

Even in the OC the number of jobs for the educated and highly skilled that pay livable wages are limited. There may be more jobs... but most aren't even close to paying enough for a family to live in the OC. Unless pay rises (which I doubt), or cost of living fall (possible), most will still consider the IE as a very sensible and viable solution than living in the OC or LA.

-chuck22b

Chuck:

No apology necessary - I was poking fun at something obviously meaningful to you. I am quite familiar with the area, grew up in IE, and still browse the forums as my family is still very much entrenched there.

I would postulate that the commute incremental is much more than 15-20 minutes for the affordable areas of IE (given that the IE discount generally gets steeper as you drive further from job hubs and the coast), with notable exceptions like Temecula.

Home purchase prices are closer to reality in IE because they are competitive with renting -- in OC and LA, we know we have further to fall because renting is such a great deal.

And if you did your budget, put all the costs in - including puts and takes for commuting costs at $3.60 - $4 per gallon, higher insurance caused by more miles driven, $10 daily premium for Fastrak, increases in energy costs ( I ran my AC a ton more in IE, for example ), you'd find the leftover delta is probably close to the opportunity cost for the time spent on the freeway.

I lived the Chino Hills to Anaheim commute for 2+ years. It's 15-20 minutes on just the 71 freeway, let alone the 91. And I was carpooling 50%+ of the time. Let's be realistic - depending on where you live and the location of your job, it is as short as 45 and as high as 2 hours to get to work EACH WAY when you live in the IE (and one has to think beyond just their current job... where's the next gig going to be??).

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Chuck:

No apology necessary - I was poking fun at something obviously meaningful to you. I am quite familiar with the area, grew up in IE, and still browse the forums as my family is still very much entrenched there.

I would postulate that the commute incremental is much more than 15-20 minutes for the affordable areas of IE (given that the IE discount generally gets steeper as you drive further from job hubs and the coast), with notable exceptions like Temecula.

Home purchase prices are closer to reality in IE because they are competitive with renting -- in OC and LA, we know we have further to fall because renting is such a great deal.

And if you did your budget, put all the costs in - including puts and takes for commuting costs at $3.60 - $4 per gallon, higher insurance caused by more miles driven, $10 daily premium for Fastrak, increases in energy costs ( I ran my AC a ton more in IE, for example ), you'd find the leftover delta is probably close to the opportunity cost for the time spent on the freeway.

Wow, you have high tastes... I drive a hybrid, don't use the toll lanes, and my insurance costs actually went lower because of moving to the IE (previously in LA area - and I think insurers use the zip code as one of the measures for rate).

Furthermore, we got a modest home so our heating and cooling costs and other utilities are actually lower than the condo we were renting (double pane windows and better insulation as well as modern appliances help).

I lived the Chino Hills to Anaheim commute for 2+ years. It's 15-20 minutes on just the 71 freeway, let alone the 91. And I was carpooling 50%+ of the time. Let's be realistic - depending on where you live and the location of your job, it is as short as 45 and as high as 2 hours to get to work EACH WAY when you live in the IE (and one has to think beyond just their current job... where's the next gig going to be??).

Well, if you live in western IE, like I said elsewhere, you have the option to go into LA as well. Meanwhile, if you live in west LA, or south OC, you'll have a hard time moving north toward downtown or south to OC. So, if south OC sours (Ameriquest, New Century, Fremont, Irvine Company, etc.) you'd still have the option to go into another industry in LA.

Also, going to Brea from chino/chino hills is less than 25-30 mins (Bank of America, Avery Dennison, Morgan Stanley, Beckman Culture, Suzuki, and others). So there are job centers fairly close by besides those in Ontario/Rancho, Pomona, Corona, and Diamond Bar.

-chuck22b