The Preserve at Chino or Older Home in Chino Hills (Anaheim: for sale, real estate)

[jasmine22]

Hey,
Its me again. Wonderin what you guys think about chino hills vs. chino?

[ConsideringLA]

My sense is Chino's reputation will always be a drag on its value.

Chino Hills has better schools overall, which also helps with value.

We owned in CH near Grand and Chino Hills Pkwy in a home built in 1990 - after visiting the Preserve and other newer developments, we came to appreciate our older home much more ! We had a view, no surrounding airport, no blighted areas nearby, great services, etc.

[jasmine22]

i need details on the blighted areas you mentioned. are there any areas in chino hills that you would NOT recommend?

[ConsideringLA]

Full disclosure: I lived in CH for 2 years and grew up in nearby Diamond Bar. We moved out at the end of 2006 due to issues with the commute, which are covered in other posts.

Chino has more blighted surrounding area than Chino Hills. In fact, I can't think of anything blighted surrounding CH other than potentially a part of Pomona, which is buffered by the hills of Chino Hills Parkway.

We looked all over CH and ended up falling in love with the neighborhoods around English Springs Park (our place was near Village Center Drive & Spring Meadow, in case you're interested). There's an award winning school that's walkable, easy access to shopping w/o the use of the 71 fwy, and all around better scenery than the Butterfield Ranch area (generally off Soqeul Canyon / 71) of CH. The English Springs area (I think it's called Warmington Ranch) offers views but is also bikable and walkable - a rare combo in CH as the hills make anything other than the car a non-starter.

Butterfield Ranch has lower prices but watch out - the tax rates and HOAs are much steeper. It's also just more bland there - the area has (IMO) poor infrastructure and the folks that live there generally have to take the 71 fwy to do much of anything. My wife met most of her friends who lived in BR at English Springs park - how's that for pathetic -- they DROVE ON THE FREEWAY to English Springs park from Butterfield Ranch.

The Preserve (with apologies to chuck22b) is an Irvine-wannabe development that was plunked down where no-one else would dare stick housing: next to the Chino Airport. It is adjacent to some working farms (it is actually former dairy land) and is sort of an island - err preserve - in an area of town that I would not consider to be desireable. You will find tons of REO and foreclosure property there simply because it was built toward the end of the housing - kaboom. Here's a good blog post on the Preserve. Watch for sky-high HOAs, dense housing with small lots, and mello roos. In other words, all the junk that Irvine offers without the ocean breezes, jobs, safety, or schools.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Full disclosure: I lived in CH for 2 years and grew up in nearby Diamond Bar. We moved out at the end of 2006 due to issues with the commute, which are covered in other posts.

Chino has more blighted surrounding area than Chino Hills. In fact, I can't think of anything blighted surrounding CH other than potentially a part of Pomona, which is buffered by the hills of Chino Hills Parkway.

We looked all over CH and ended up falling in love with the neighborhoods around English Springs Park (our place was near Village Center Drive & Spring Meadow, in case you're interested). There's an award winning school that's walkable, easy access to shopping w/o the use of the 71 fwy, and all around better scenery than the Butterfield Ranch area (generally off Soqeul Canyon / 71) of CH. The English Springs area (I think it's called Warmington Ranch) offers views but is also bikable and walkable - a rare combo in CH as the hills make anything other than the car a non-starter.

Butterfield Ranch has lower prices but watch out - the tax rates and HOAs are much steeper. It's also just more bland there - the area has (IMO) poor infrastructure and the folks that live there generally have to take the 71 fwy to do much of anything. My wife met most of her friends who lived in BR at English Springs park - how's that for pathetic -- they DROVE ON THE FREEWAY to English Springs park from Butterfield Ranch.

The Preserve (with apologies to chuck22b) is an Irvine-wannabe development that was plunked down where no-one else would dare stick housing: next to the Chino Airport. It is adjacent to some working farms (it is actually former dairy land) and is sort of an island - err preserve - in an area of town that I would not consider to be desireable. You will find tons of REO and foreclosure property there simply because it was built toward the end of the housing - kaboom. Here's a good blog post on the Preserve. Watch for sky-high HOAs, dense housing with small lots, and mello roos. In other words, all the junk that Irvine offers without the ocean breezes, jobs, safety, or schools.

Wow... there's a lot of smug in your post...

Chino and Chino Hills are actually linked closer than just their names. Chino and Chino Hills use the same water supply (Chino Basin Water Master), Chino Valley Independent Fire District, Chino Valley Unified School District, Chino Valley Chamber of Commerce, Chino Champion (newspaper), etc. Like I said Chino and Chino Hills are sister cities so they actually compliment each other more than anything.

Anyhow... I'd rather live in The Preserve than some developments in Irvine where the El Toro Marine Base has several issues with TCE and PCE. At least in Chino our water is "purified" by the Chino Water Basin where water quality is above par.

"El Toro was designated an EPA Superfund site in the 1990's, but today the city of Irvine and developers are in the process of establishing a park and neighborhood on top of it."

Yup, cover the problem, not fix it.

"Lethally toxic chemicals were dumped into the groundwater over the decades at the now closed El Toro Marine Corps Air Station in Irvine, California. There are many cases of Marines and their family members becoming sick over the years from TCE, (Trichloroethylene) and a similar chemical PCE, (Perchloroethylene)....The underground aquifers contaminated with this hazardous waste under El Toro has moved under prestigious and expensive neighborhoods in Irvine, California. Most people there do not know."
TCE Expert Talks With Former El Toro Marine About Toxic Waste (VIDEO) - Salem-News.Com

Not to say the least, John Wayne Airport is a larger airport than Chino Airport... who knows what kind of military waste is at the Tustin Marine Base, and they may convert the El Toro Marine Base into something like LAX. So... hmmm... hope the rich people in Irvine/South OC start the protesting.

Anyhow... I've never said Chino Hills is bad... it's actually a very nice place... but there are bad areas there like I've mentioned before. Los Seranos area, North bordering Pomona, etc. Up on the hills on Grand is nice... and where the English Springs park is... IF you can afford it. Butterfield Ranch is newer and nice as well AND they do have their own parks as well. Besides.. they've already started building/completed more stuff in South Chino/ South Chino hills that will suit the south side nicely (The Commons at Chino Hills, Rancho Del Chino, the Albertsons plaza off Soquel canyon, the new plaza by the Chino Hills Corporate Park... etc.)

Otherwise, like I said... same schools as Chino Hills (Butterfield Elementary - until we get our IB school, and Chino Hills High School), and more bang for the buck at the Preserve.... Oh... and less smug too

-chuck22b

[ConsideringLA]

Hey Chuck:

First, there are no homes for sale yet in the El Toro Marine base. It's a cluster-f and I would never personally live there for similar reasons as the Preserve. You can't ignore the parallels - small lots, sky high HOA, mello roos, etc - I didn't see any disagreements on those points from your end.

Second, I don't live in Irvine - I have lived in more places likely than you and am being as objective as i can to assist the OP. I have lived in CH and in Irvine and think my comment on the Preserve is quite fair.

Third, compare API scores for Chino vs. Chino Hills. Lugo vs. Ayala or CHH? C'mon.

Fourth, Chino and Chino Hills are completely distinct cities. Much like Diamond Bar and Walnut. Same district, same PD, same fire, same water, etc., but they're different cities with different values and demographics. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but it is fact.

Fifth, having lived near the Van Nuys airport and now living close to Burbank airport, I can share with you that tons of props buzzing around at low altitude is actually more annoying than fewer jets blasting overhead.

So not smug one stretch - quite objective with no bias since I ain't living in either place.

[sandiegan]

I lived in Temecula area for a year, and The Preserve development reminds of the housing tracts there (probably because they are so new). But that is not a bad thing, I really liked the tracts in Temecula (save for the fact that they were in the middle of nowhere, in Temecula). The houses at the Preserve are extremely nice, we drove through and looked at some foreclosures when we were buying in March/April '08. But we opted to live in Chino Hills just West of the 71 and got a little less house for our money. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in walking distance of The Preserve, and it is a pretty good drive from the 71 to it (I would guess 10 minutes, but maybe that is on the long side). I am not a real estate expert, but The Preserve is somewhat in the back yard of the California Institution for Men, not sure how that will effect your values long term. Same thing could probably be said for houses in Los Serranos / Butterfield Ranch though in Chino Hills, who knows.

Ultimately, I like being able to walk to stuff, and being close to the highway. I would have preferred living closer to Chino Ave/Grand... we could have gotten even less house for the money and lived off Chino Ave near 99 Ranch / Lowes, but didn't want a 1200 sq ft 2 BR house. So we opted to live off Soquel Canyon in north Butterfield area (not the bad part East of Los Serranos CC that I think technically may be "Chino" ). They are building more stuff off Soquel Canyon (there is already an Albertson's, a McDonald's, a Rite Aid, etc.) And as someone eluded to, one exit up at Chino Hills Parkway, they are building a Lucille's, a BJ's, and some other chain/Big Box stores.

Long story short, houses in the Preserve are a lot nicer than comparably priced houses in Chino Hills. Which do you want, nicer house or better location? I agree with ConsideringLA that Chino Hills probably has more "cachet" than Chino, if you will, which was another reason we opted for Chino Hills (for resale value/investment purposes, not snobbery). But like Chuck22b said, it's all the same school system, etc.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Hey Chuck:

First, there are no homes for sale yet in the El Toro Marine base. It's a cluster-f and I would never personally live there for similar reasons as the Preserve. You can't ignore the parallels - small lots, sky high HOA, mello roos, etc - I didn't see any disagreements on those points from your end.

Most new developments have smaller lots and mello roos of some sort. The city has to fund new roads and other developments don't they? HOA you get what you pay for... maintained facilities, staff, grounds, events, etc.... and your experience with an HOA mostly depends on your participation.

I'm fine with paying Mello roos and HOA fees since IMO, I get a lot for how much I'm paying in. As far as a smaller lot... that's personal preference. I don't want a big yard to take care of... and like I said... a modest house requires less utilities.

Second, I don't live in Irvine - I have lived in more places likely than you and am being as objective as i can to assist the OP. I have lived in CH and in Irvine and think my comment on the Preserve is quite fair.
How do you know where I've lived in? FYI, I've traveled to pretty much all of the States, lived in IL, CA, and in Canada.

As far as California, I've lived in the Deserts (Coachella Valley), Coast (South Bay), Valleys (San Gabriel Valley), and now in the western IE.

In the most part I also try to be objective... but of course it's harder when you live here. Hey, if I hated it... and if there are many others who hate it at the Preserve... I'm sure you'd hear it somewhere. How would people that don't live here know exactly what they're talking about it?

Third, compare API scores for Chino vs. Chino Hills. Lugo vs. Ayala or CHH? C'mon.

Like I said, the Preserve uses the same schools as Chino Hills

Fourth, Chino and Chino Hills are completely distinct cities. Much like Diamond Bar and Walnut. Same district, same PD, same fire, same water, etc., but they're different cities with different values and demographics. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but it is fact.

Or course they are distinct, but the cities also share a lot of resources and work with each other. I'd compare it to Anaheim and Anaheim Hills... i think.

Values? I think both cities support a great environment for families and support development and smart growth. Chino, by the way, has been voted in the top 100 Cities for Young People 2 out of 3 years.... so that says something about their commitment to kids programs and activities.

Fifth, having lived near the Van Nuys airport and now living close to Burbank airport, I can share with you that tons of props buzzing around at low altitude is actually more annoying than fewer jets blasting overhead.

Depends... on your preference... it's kind of neat to see the old fighter planes and war birds when they test flight them (Planes of Fame Museum). My daughter likes them... and she likes the cows, horses, goats, etc. out here. So "environmental" preference depends on the person.

So not smug one stretch - quite objective with no bias since I ain't living in either place.
You aren't... but neither did you live at the Preserve... so you don't really know the difference between North Chino, The Preserve, and Chino Hills. I've never lived in Chino Hills, so I can't really say anything bad about it. Like I said, I think Chino Hills is nice.

Anyhow, you were comparing the Preserve as a "wanna be" Irvine development. So, likewise, I pointed out that Irvine has the Airports, Marine Base Waste Issues (ground water contamination spreads further than just the base like the article said).

The Preserve, like I said, uses the same schools as Chino Hills (Butterfield and Chino Hills High)... of course most of the other schools in Chino Hills are better than Chino but there are exceptions, Rhodes Elementary School... in Chino, is actually THE Best Elementary school in the Chino Valley (I think it's private?) but I don't really care... since all I care is what schools The Preserve uses (which are the same as Chino Hills).

Yea, it'd be nice to be able to "walk" to stuff as well. The Preserve Plans show a future community "core"... which will have walkable shopping and other activities. Meanwhile, the closest grocer is probably the Albertsons in Eastvale off Schleisman (5-8 mins East). And the California Institute for Men IS not even close to the Preserve. It's actually closer to College Park. Like previously said, the Preserve is pretty isolated by the dairies, farms, and the airport up north.

Los Serranos is in Chino Hills... like I said there are older bad parts of Chino Hills... but of course Chino Hills residents won't admit it .

-chuck22b

[ConsideringLA]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

Anyhow, you were comparing the Preserve as a "wanna be" Irvine development. So, likewise, I pointed out that Irvine has the Airports, Marine Base Waste Issues (ground water contamination spreads further than just the base like the article said).

The Preserve, like I said, uses the same schools as Chino Hills (Butterfield and Chino Hills High)... of course most of the other schools in Chino Hills are better than Chino but there are exceptions, Rhodes Elementary School... in Chino, is actually THE Best Elementary school in the Chino Valley (I think it's private?) but I don't really care... since all I care is what schools The Preserve uses (which are the same as Chino Hills).

Yea, it'd be nice to be able to "walk" to stuff as well. The Preserve Plans show a future community "core"... which will have walkable shopping and other activities. Meanwhile, the closes grocer is probably the Albertsons in Eastvale off Schleisman. And the California Institute for Men IS not even close to the Preserve. It's actually closer to College Park. Like previously said, the Preserve is pretty isolated by the dairies, farms, and the airport up north.

-chuck22b

Anaheim Hills is actually PART of Anaheim - Diamond Bar and Walnut are perfect parallels - they share a school district (at least the non-North DB end, which is 75%+), a newspaper, water, police, fire, etc etc.

Chino Hills is incorporated...

With respect to "Chino, by the way, has been voted in the top 100 Cities for Young People 2 out of 3 years.... so that says something about their commitment to kids programs and activities." I have seen that list - Burbank's on it -- it's kindof a joke. The criteria aren't even clear...

At the end of the day, the advantages to the Preserve have to constantly be explained, which is big factor in the drag on values.

Anyhow, we've talked this to death...

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by ConsideringLA

Anaheim Hills is actually PART of Anaheim - Diamond Bar and Walnut are perfect parallels - they share a school district (at least the non-North DB end, which is 75%+), a newspaper, water, police, fire, etc etc.

Chino Hills is incorporated...

With respect to "Chino, by the way, has been voted in the top 100 Cities for Young People 2 out of 3 years.... so that says something about their commitment to kids programs and activities." I have seen that list - Burbank's on it -- it's kindof a joke. The criteria aren't even clear...

Basically their criteria is the availability of programs and support for kids activities. Promoting a safe environment, after school programs, young kids (TYKES program), healthy lifestyle (Healthy Chino), education, etc.... Anyhow, they are criterias that the City of Chino met out of the 750 cities that submitted info.

"Nearly 750 participants from more than 300 communities in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico entered this year’s competition. The winning communities for 2008 include cities, towns and counties of all sizes and regions from 37 states. Of that list, 44 communities were three time winners, a first in 100 Best history."
http://www.americaspromise.org/APAPage.aspx?id=9850

At the end of the day, the advantages to the Preserve have to constantly be explained, which is big factor in the drag on values.
Chino Hills wasn't always the greatest place... Diamond Bar in fact used to be a better place than Chino Hills. Now Chino Hills has grown and many Diamond Bar people come out our direction.

Anyhow, we've talked this to death...

Diamond Bar and Walnut have fairly similar demographics and values... at least from what I can tell... we lived in Diamond Bar, and my wife grew up there.

Anaheim and Anaheim Hills have different demographics and essentially values... although I guess they're the same city? Anaheim tends to be more industrial and business oriented (like Chino) while Anaheim Hills is more residential and upper class area (like Chino Hills). Anaheim does have its' nice areas... just like Chino has its' nice areas... like the newer developments and the Preserve. In the most part though, the Chino Valley (both Chino and Chino Hills) altogether is a family oriented, pro development, smart growth area.

So that's why I compared the two... in terms of environment and values.. not necessarily city charter.

-chuck22b