Temecula vs OC (Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Ana: lower-class, low crime, felony)
San Bernardino and Riverside CountiesThe Inland Empire
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I'm looking for some feedback...positive and negative.
I used to live in South Orange County and now live in Colorado Springs. We think about moving back to So Cal but I'm hesitant to go back to the OC lifestyle...traffic, materialism, crowds...even though there are lots of good things there, too.
Temecula looks like it has some of the things we like about OC such as masterplanned communities, nice parks, great weather....compared to Colorado, But with more affordable housing.
Is there anyone out there who has lived in both of these places that can speak about:
traffic comparisons
air quality
crowded schools
crime
sophistication/ education level of residents
impacts from illegal immigration
health care/hospital quality
teaching jobs
beach and San Diego commute times
I'm a teacher, married, and we have a son who will be 5 and starting kindergarten next year.
I know this a lot of information, so any input is helpful.
Thanks so much.
I live in Murrieta and have lived her since 1995. Initially we loved it but it has changed alot in the past few years. It is crowded, we have terrible air quality, there's horrible traffic due to the poor planning and the schools are overcrowded. I know alot of people love living in the Temecula valley due to the close proximity to San Diego and OC but the traffic is killer and we don't go due to the hassle. Having the option, I would not move here again.
Also, consider Thousand Oaks/Newbury Park as an alternative.
It's a similar paradigm (substitute Ventura / Santa Barbara for San Diego, LA for OC, Amgen for Abbot) except there are more jobs closer in (Warner Center in WH, etc). Maybe a touch pricier but who needs 3500 square feet?
Thanks for the information.
I would hope to work somewhere out in that area....I don't want to commute far....so hopefully somewhere between Temecula and Elsinore.
We have family in OC and San Diego so that's why we're looking at that particular area.
I lived in Temecula area for a year, and I work in Orange County.
*traffic comparisons - Traffic from Temecula to anywhere on a weekday is terrible. Since you are a teacher, this probably won't be a problem for you -- there are no professional jobs in Temecula, they are all in SD/OC/LA (not counting Abbott Labs). I commuted from Temecula area to Mira Mesa (San Diego) for sixth months, and then to Irvine for another six months. Each commute was miserable, the commute to Mira Mesa slightly less so (60-70 minutes to SD vs. 75-90 minutes to OC).
*air quality - Was fine as far as I could tell. My chief complaint with Temecula vs. the OC is that it is f'in hot!
*crime - I don't think there are really crime problems in Temecula. However, I would not want to teach in Lake Elsinore...
*sophistication/ education level of residents - Temecula is not a cultural beacon IMO. There's a movie theatre that sometimes shows indie films (The Movie Experience at Tower Plaza). Temecula/Murrieta have people who A. are working professionals commuting to northern SD/ downtown SD / OC / some crazies that commute all the way to LA and B. IE people that drive lifted trucks, have a lot of tats, and love the Raiders. If you have lived/live in Temecula and deny the presence of honky-tonk lifted truck folk, you are in denial.
*impacts from illegal immigration - no different than the rest of Southern California
*beach and San Diego commute times - Temecula to the coast (Torrey Pines) would probably be about an hour and 10 minutes on the weekend, maybe an hour if you book it. You can make it to Carlsbad in about 50 minutes, which has nice beaches. Coronado is going to be longer, stick to North San Diego area.
traffic comparisons - streets are set up bad, but outside of worker's traffic it's not bad within Temecula. Many people commute to other areas for their job, and people actually commute into Temecula from the surrounding smaller towns. I'm a "professional" and I work in Temecula. It can be done . I personally wouldn't want to commute out of the area...seems like it would be a rough drive to SD, OC or LA.
air quality - good, better than the rest of Riverside county; sky is almost always blue & clear, no smog. The heat is exaggerated by most people.
crowded schools - don't know now...it was pretty crowded when I was in HS though, like 35-40 students a class or so.
crime - relativley low....violent crime is shocking here.
sophistication/ education level of residents - average middle class suburb, not different from OC in being somewhat materialistic & conformist. Definitely not cultured or artsy (I lament...). Many people here came from OC though, and I personally wouldn't call OC "sophisticated".
impacts from illegal immigration - very little....the area is predominantly white middle class; my HS was like 65% white.
health care/hospital quality - murrieta's hospital has a good rep
teaching jobs - don't really know, but there's lots of schools
beach and San Diego commute times - 30 to 45 minute drive to Oceanside (closest beach, I like it a lot), depending on traffic. It's about an hour or so to SD, depending on traffic.
Why do people compare Orange County and Temecula? THERE IS NO COMPARISON!
OC doesn't have all the tattooed tough guys in Big Trucks like Temecula does.
OC doesn't have all the lower class rural "rift-raft" that Temecula has.
I would take OC any day over Temecula. My girlfriend bought a place here, and I can't wait to get out of here.
I also heard about the Skinhead problem in the Murrieta and Temecula schools that was in the past. See article and link from below. I know the article is from 2005, things are getting better but I think people should know about intolerance issues in the past in Temecula / Murrieta. (If any high school kids would like to share stories please do so) All you have to do is google it and something will come up. Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate Crimes, Bucking Trend in State - Los Angeles Times
Archive for Monday, February 28, 2005
Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate Crimes, Bucking Trend in State
By Lance Pugmire and Janet Wilson
February 28, 2005 in print edition B-1
Note This article includes corrections to the original version.
When a teen lifted his baggy shorts and flashed a swastika and German army tattoos at Kenny Turner outside his high school last June, the popular black Lake Elsinore senior just kept walking.
“It was the second-to-last day of the school year,” recalled Turner, now 19. “I didn’t want to be in trouble with one day left.”
But Turner and two witnesses said the young man, armed with an ice pick, ran after him and stabbed him while screaming a racial slur. It’s an incident that, although rare, is emblematic of a growing problem in the Inland Empire, authorities say.
The number of reported hate crimes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties has risen sharply in recent years, fueled in part by dramatic demographic changes that experts say are bringing more minorities into a region that has long been home to pockets of white supremacists. Other growing Southland suburbs – among them Santa Clarita, Lancaster and Simi Valley – have also had high-profile racially motivated crimes and incidents in recent years.
Although hate crimes declined 10% statewide in 2003, they rose a combined 19.5% in Riverside and San Bernardino counties, according to the most recent data from the state attorney general’s office.
As part of crackdowns by the FBI and sheriffs in the Inland Empire, 42 people associated with white hate groups have been arrested in the last 13 months on suspicion of weapons possession, drug dealing and other crimes.
Authorities announced in January that an alleged white supremacist in Riverside County’s Menifee was recruiting players on a local high school football team. Educators and prosecutors promptly vowed to work jointly to combat hate crime on campuses.
In the last two years, incidents in that county have included teens parading with a homemade flag emblazoned with swastikas in front of Lake Elsinore High School, and the beating of two black students by four white students at Murrieta Valley High School.
Last year, a black Norco High School junior found song lyrics on her desk about gunning down blacks. In May, a melee among 200 students at Temescal Canyon High School in Lake Elsinore was triggered by racial slurs. In March, Corona police arrested a dozen Centennial High School students after a racially motivated fight broke out.
In fast-growing Riverside County, experts and law enforcement officials say, rising racial hostility has been triggered by increasing racial diversity among newcomers.
Although the county’s white population rose 7% from 1990 to 2000, the number of blacks grew 61%, and Latinos and Asians increased 82% and 62% respectively, said James P. Allen, a Cal State Northridge professor who analyzes racial and ethnic data.
“Any kind of major demographic change has the potential to spark racial turbulence and hate crimes,” said Mark Potok, who monitors hate crimes nationally for the Southern Poverty Law Center in Birmingham, Ala. “Very often, hate crimes are someone acting out in response to some kind of real pressure, including sprawl and economic pressures.”
Despite the disturbing incidents and high-profile arrests, some local officials urge perspective. “We handle 15,000 felony cases a year, and we’re talking about less than 100 hate crimes we deal with for the entire county,” said Riverside County Dist. Atty. Grover Trask. He said he had seen an uptick in all categories of crime because of the fast-growing population.
In San Bernardino County, tract homes are springing up even in once isolated desert areas that can be attractive to gun-toting white supremacists. A task force of FBI agents and specially trained sheriff’s deputies teamed up in November 2003 to track white supremacists. So far, the investigation has yielded 24 arrests of members of the High Desert Freak Boys and Angry Nazi Soldiers. Using routine weapons and drug charges, authorities say, they have crippled the groups.
In other cases, authorities have used anti-gang laws to charge suspected white supremacists, seeking stiffer penalties and bans on congregating.
“Anywhere in the county where we see a problem, whether it’s street gangs, outlaw biker gangs or these white supremacists, we are going to do whatever we can to combat the crime and violence that they bring with them into our communities,” said Cindy Beavers, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.
Among the factors experts attribute to the rising hostility include absentee parents who commute long hours to coastal jobs, alienated kids finding “street” families in gangs, and the longtime local presence of Tom Metzger, the former Ku Klux Klan grand dragon.
“The unfortunate reality is that this [southwest] corner of Riverside County is California’s own northern Idaho,” said John Ruiz, an assistant county district attorney who successfully prosecuted young alleged Hammerskins white supremacists in 2002 for attacking a black man with beer bottles, boots and razors in Temecula wine country.
Metzger, 66, who now leads the White Aryan Resistance from his home in Fallbrook, said southwest Riverside County’s “chemistry is perfect for more racism.”
“There are a lot of white people in Temecula, people who have fled Orange County or Los Angeles County with the code phrase that they were ‘fleeing from crime,’ when in fact the majority were fleeing nonwhite crime,” Metzger said. “The growing pains of throwing kids into forced integration causes a negative reaction in this burgeoning area that’s becoming more nonwhite.”
Three black Murrieta Valley High School students last year filed lawsuits against their district and several white students for $2.8 million, alleging that they were taunted and beaten.
The suits allege that on Aug. 20, 2003, a black student was violently fouled by a white student during a basketball game, prompting another white student to yell racial slurs. Later that day, the suits allege, two of the white students confronted one of the black students outside the principal’s office and barked out more racial slurs. When the black student tried to walk away, he was knocked to the ground and severely beaten.
The school district’s attorney did not return repeated phone calls to his office. Janine Hall, mother of two of the white boys named in the suit, said her sons “keep getting crap everywhere they go,” insisting that “their story hasn’t been told straight” but declining to elaborate.
Alan Young, director of student support for the Murrieta Valley School District, said he could not discuss the case, citing the lawsuits, for which hearings are set in early March. But Young said hate crime complaints were down sharply, from about 50 last year to a dozen so far this year.
“I think there are racial tensions in every high school in this country,” Young said. “We actually see evidence that really is kind of declining here.”
Sharron Lindsay, superintendent of the Lake Elsinore Unified School District, said she was “outraged” by the stabbing of Kenny Turner in front of his high school and by the swastika flag paraded in front of school. But she said 99% of students in the integrated, 140-square-mile district got along well. The district has swelled from 14,000 six years ago to 20,000 now. Many new arrivals are minorities.
“I’m proud of our students,” she said. “This school district has rejoiced in its diversity.”
Business leaders, educators and students met last summer to discuss how to work and live together, she said. In her district and others nearby, students have formed “unity groups” and hold forums on how to break down racial barriers. More than 7,000 residents held a parade for tolerance on Lake Elsinore’s Main Street in November, she said.
She said the area clearly had “isolated pockets” of white supremacy because of its history as a rural area with Ku Klux Klan activity.
Last month, Armando Perez, 19, pleaded guilty to a felony hate crime assault for stabbing Turner. Perez could not be reached for comment.
Quinn Baranski, the assistant district attorney who handled the case, said that when a judge asked Perez if the attack was based on race, Perez replied, “It definitely was,” in a proud, defiant tone. Earlier, Perez told sheriff’s deputies that he is white, Baranski said.
Perez was sentenced to two years in prison, but between time served and possible time off for good behavior, he could be free in six months.
Turner, now a freshman at Mt. San Jacinto College, says he feels let down by the criminal justice system, and by his school.
“To think he could be out in six months, that seems to be part of the problem,” Turner said. “These guys keep getting away with things. So much of what they do, nobody notices or realizes. They either don’t want to see it, or don’t pay attention to it
For the record
Hate crimes – An article in Monday’s California section about hate crimes in the Inland Empire said the Southern Poverty Law Center is in Birmingham, Ala. It is in Montgomery, Ala. ↩
Why do people compare Orange County and Temecula? THERE IS NO COMPARISON!
OC doesn't have all the tattooed tough guys in Big Trucks like Temecula does.
OC doesn't have all the lower class rural "rift-raft" that Temecula has.
I would take OC any day over Temecula. My girlfriend bought a place here, and I can't wait to get out of here.
I also heard about the Skinhead problem in the Murrieta and Temecula schools that was in the past. See article and link from below. I know the article is from 2005, things are getting better but I think people should know about intolerance issues in the past in Temecula / Murrieta. (If any high school kids would like to share stories please do so) All you have to do is google it and something will come up. Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate Crimes, Bucking Trend in State - Los Angeles Times
Archive for Monday, February 28, 2005
Inland Empire Sees Rise in Hate Crimes, Bucking Trend in State
By Lance Pugmire and Janet Wilson
February 28, 2005 in print edition B-1
Note This article includes corrections to the original version.
When a teen lifted his baggy shorts and flashed a swastika and German army tattoos at Kenny Turner outside his high school last June, the popular black Lake Elsinore senior just kept walking.
“It was the second-to-last day of the school year,” recalled Turner, now 19. “I didn’t want to be in trouble with one day left.”
But Turner and two witnesses said the young man, armed with an ice pick, ran after him and stabbed him while screaming a racial slur. It’s an incident that, although rare, is emblematic of a growing problem in the Inland Empire, authorities say.
The number of reported hate crimes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties has risen sharply in recent years, fueled in part by dramatic demographic changes that experts say are bringing more minorities into a region that has long been home to pockets of white supremacists. Other growing Southland suburbs – among them Santa Clarita, Lancaster and Simi Valley – have also had high-profile racially motivated crimes and incidents in recent years.
Although hate crimes declined 10% statewide in 2003, they rose a combined 19.5% in Riverside and San Bernardino counties, according to the most recent data from the state attorney general’s office.
As part of crackdowns by the FBI and sheriffs in the Inland Empire, 42 people associated with white hate groups have been arrested in the last 13 months on suspicion of weapons possession, drug dealing and other crimes.
Authorities announced in January that an alleged white supremacist in Riverside County’s Menifee was recruiting players on a local high school football team. Educators and prosecutors promptly vowed to work jointly to combat hate crime on campuses.
In the last two years, incidents in that county have included teens parading with a homemade flag emblazoned with swastikas in front of Lake Elsinore High School, and the beating of two black students by four white students at Murrieta Valley High School.
Last year, a black Norco High School junior found song lyrics on her desk about gunning down blacks. In May, a melee among 200 students at Temescal Canyon High School in Lake Elsinore was triggered by racial slurs. In March, Corona police arrested a dozen Centennial High School students after a racially motivated fight broke out.
In fast-growing Riverside County, experts and law enforcement officials say, rising racial hostility has been triggered by increasing racial diversity among newcomers.
Although the county’s white population rose 7% from 1990 to 2000, the number of blacks grew 61%, and Latinos and Asians increased 82% and 62% respectively, said James P. Allen, a Cal State Northridge professor who analyzes racial and ethnic data.
“Any kind of major demographic change has the potential to spark racial turbulence and hate crimes,” said Mark Potok, who monitors hate crimes nationally for the Southern Poverty Law Center in Birmingham, Ala. “Very often, hate crimes are someone acting out in response to some kind of real pressure, including sprawl and economic pressures.”
Despite the disturbing incidents and high-profile arrests, some local officials urge perspective. “We handle 15,000 felony cases a year, and we’re talking about less than 100 hate crimes we deal with for the entire county,” said Riverside County Dist. Atty. Grover Trask. He said he had seen an uptick in all categories of crime because of the fast-growing population.
In San Bernardino County, tract homes are springing up even in once isolated desert areas that can be attractive to gun-toting white supremacists. A task force of FBI agents and specially trained sheriff’s deputies teamed up in November 2003 to track white supremacists. So far, the investigation has yielded 24 arrests of members of the High Desert Freak Boys and Angry Nazi Soldiers. Using routine weapons and drug charges, authorities say, they have crippled the groups.
In other cases, authorities have used anti-gang laws to charge suspected white supremacists, seeking stiffer penalties and bans on congregating.
“Anywhere in the county where we see a problem, whether it’s street gangs, outlaw biker gangs or these white supremacists, we are going to do whatever we can to combat the crime and violence that they bring with them into our communities,” said Cindy Beavers, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.
Among the factors experts attribute to the rising hostility include absentee parents who commute long hours to coastal jobs, alienated kids finding “street” families in gangs, and the longtime local presence of Tom Metzger, the former Ku Klux Klan grand dragon.
“The unfortunate reality is that this [southwest] corner of Riverside County is California’s own northern Idaho,” said John Ruiz, an assistant county district attorney who successfully prosecuted young alleged Hammerskins white supremacists in 2002 for attacking a black man with beer bottles, boots and razors in Temecula wine country.
Metzger, 66, who now leads the White Aryan Resistance from his home in Fallbrook, said southwest Riverside County’s “chemistry is perfect for more racism.”
“There are a lot of white people in Temecula, people who have fled Orange County or Los Angeles County with the code phrase that they were ‘fleeing from crime,’ when in fact the majority were fleeing nonwhite crime,” Metzger said. “The growing pains of throwing kids into forced integration causes a negative reaction in this burgeoning area that’s becoming more nonwhite.”
Three black Murrieta Valley High School students last year filed lawsuits against their district and several white students for $2.8 million, alleging that they were taunted and beaten.
The suits allege that on Aug. 20, 2003, a black student was violently fouled by a white student during a basketball game, prompting another white student to yell racial slurs. Later that day, the suits allege, two of the white students confronted one of the black students outside the principal’s office and barked out more racial slurs. When the black student tried to walk away, he was knocked to the ground and severely beaten.
The school district’s attorney did not return repeated phone calls to his office. Janine Hall, mother of two of the white boys named in the suit, said her sons “keep getting crap everywhere they go,” insisting that “their story hasn’t been told straight” but declining to elaborate.
Alan Young, director of student support for the Murrieta Valley School District, said he could not discuss the case, citing the lawsuits, for which hearings are set in early March. But Young said hate crime complaints were down sharply, from about 50 last year to a dozen so far this year.
“I think there are racial tensions in every high school in this country,” Young said. “We actually see evidence that really is kind of declining here.”
Sharron Lindsay, superintendent of the Lake Elsinore Unified School District, said she was “outraged” by the stabbing of Kenny Turner in front of his high school and by the swastika flag paraded in front of school. But she said 99% of students in the integrated, 140-square-mile district got along well. The district has swelled from 14,000 six years ago to 20,000 now. Many new arrivals are minorities.
“I’m proud of our students,” she said. “This school district has rejoiced in its diversity.”
Business leaders, educators and students met last summer to discuss how to work and live together, she said. In her district and others nearby, students have formed “unity groups” and hold forums on how to break down racial barriers. More than 7,000 residents held a parade for tolerance on Lake Elsinore’s Main Street in November, she said.
She said the area clearly had “isolated pockets” of white supremacy because of its history as a rural area with Ku Klux Klan activity.
Last month, Armando Perez, 19, pleaded guilty to a felony hate crime assault for stabbing Turner. Perez could not be reached for comment.
Quinn Baranski, the assistant district attorney who handled the case, said that when a judge asked Perez if the attack was based on race, Perez replied, “It definitely was,” in a proud, defiant tone. Earlier, Perez told sheriff’s deputies that he is white, Baranski said.
Perez was sentenced to two years in prison, but between time served and possible time off for good behavior, he could be free in six months.
Turner, now a freshman at Mt. San Jacinto College, says he feels let down by the criminal justice system, and by his school.
“To think he could be out in six months, that seems to be part of the problem,” Turner said. “These guys keep getting away with things. So much of what they do, nobody notices or realizes. They either don’t want to see it, or don’t pay attention to it
For the record
Hate crimes – An article in Monday’s California section about hate crimes in the Inland Empire said the Southern Poverty Law Center is in Birmingham, Ala. It is in Montgomery, Ala. ↩
The article focused a lot on Lake Elsinore. Lake Elsinore is more like Santa Ana than South OC.
Temecula is comparable to South OC, however obviously not as "nice". You have the same masterplanned feel, similar assortment of shops, similar demographics, low crime, etc. Culturally - people tend to be a bit more down to earth and less superficial (but it is still southern california).
Racism/white supremency is really not an issue. Been out here 10 years, went to high school out here and am mixed race. My friends are of all different races and none have had any issues. In fact - I encountered more racism in South Orange County than I have out here.
As far as your statment: "OC doesn't have all the lower class rural "rift-raft" that Temecula has."
Um. Lower class rural rift-raft? First of all, the majority of temecula is not rural. Maybe as you go further north and west (Menifee, Wildomar, etc) you have more rural living but in terms of being lower-class? Sorry but look at Santa Ana, Garbage Grove, Anaheim, Tustin, etc. You'll find many more "low class rift-raft" on one street out there than you will in Temecula/Murrieta.
Also: "OC doesn't have all the tattooed tough guys in Big Trucks like Temecula does."
Sure it does. You think there aren't tattooed tough guys in OC? Ever been to Huntington Beach? LOL. It's worse there than out there. The only difference is they have surfboards in the back of the trucks rather than dirt bikes. Same folks, same ideologies, different hobby.
Even if Temecula was rural, rural does not equal riff raff, low class or undesirable. It's just not the same types of folks that are in the OC. Some people WANT that, to have a sense of reality and not so much superficial.
To eclipxe:
maybe LAX wants to see more plastic than tattoos, LOL (I know, I'm a bad girl)
As a teacher, suggest you apply at Bonsall school and live in the section of Fallbrook that is in the Bonsall school district. Bonsall Union School District | District Boundary Map (http://bonsall.schoolwires.com/151210928182456153/site/default.asp?1512Nav=|&NodeID=103 - broken link)
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. I personally wouldn't want to commute out of the area...seems like it would be a rough drive to SD, OC or LA.
