Is The Preserve in Chino worth it? (San Bernardino, Ontario: sales, real estate)

[dhalsim2]

I'm considering buying a home in The Preserve for $400k, but after realizing what how high the taxes and HOA are, I'm reconsidering. Can someone check my math?

400k house at 20% down (320k loan) yields:

$1816.92 P&I
$391.08 Mello Roos ($4693 (from the Chino website / 12 months)
$200.00 HOA
======
$2408.00 Total

That $2408 payment would get me a $530k house in an area without Mello Roos or HOA. I currently live in Chino Hills, but my family has out-grown our modest house, so we are planning on moving up to a 5-bedroom house. I could get an older house in Chino Hills for the same total payment as I would for a pretty new house in The Preserve. The house would be smaller and older in Chino Hills, but it will be closer to everywhere that I'd want to be and have much better freeway access. I don't know enough about The Preserve demographics, crime rates, education levels, etc. to compare them to Chino Hills.

Help me decide.

[Narfcake]

Stick with Chino Hills.

- HOA is bound to increase, and if there are issues with others not paying their property taxes (which is common there, as there are lots of foreclosures in the Preserves), that may increase too.
- The location isn't very convenient ... there's no such thing as "a quick walk to the store".
- After all is said and done, it's still Chino, which is still moreso remembered for the prisons rather than family life. It wouldn't matter how nice the neighborhood is, but because of the city name, it's not going to appreciate as much as a more "prestigious" city.

Don't get me wrong ... the amenities are really nice there, but the location and financial aspects are drawbacks that have to be considered too. If you don't see yourself or your family from making a lot of use of the Parkhouse, then it really doesn't make any sense.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by dhalsim2

I'm considering buying a home in The Preserve for $400k, but after realizing what how high the taxes and HOA are, I'm reconsidering. Can someone check my math?

400k house at 20% down (320k loan) yields:

$1816.92 P&I
$391.08 Mello Roos ($4693 (from the Chino website / 12 months)
$200.00 HOA
======
$2408.00 Total

That $2408 payment would get me a $530k house in an area without Mello Roos or HOA. I currently live in Chino Hills, but my family has out-grown our modest house, so we are planning on moving up to a 5-bedroom house. I could get an older house in Chino Hills for the same total payment as I would for a pretty new house in The Preserve. The house would be smaller and older in Chino Hills, but it will be closer to everywhere that I'd want to be and have much better freeway access. I don't know enough about The Preserve demographics, crime rates, education levels, etc. to compare them to Chino Hills.

Help me decide.

Hi dhalsim2,
First off, I live at the Preserve, so I might be biased, but here's my analysis:

There are a lot of depends. From what I looked up, the $4693 in mello roos would be for a 3,750 sqft and above single family residence (basically the biggest house on the highest tier at the Preserve). The amount levied depends on the size of the home.


- I don't think you'd be able to find that kind of size in Chino Hills in the $530k range... nor do I think there are many homes of that size unless you are in the Country, Velanos, or on the hill tops on Grand (and those homes would definitely be in the 800k+ range).

- Not every community in Chino Hills is "good". There are areas that are cheaper, older, but the location can be marginal. So, just because it is "Chino Hills", doesn't necessarily mean the neighborhood is good. What schools would your children attend? What prevents the City from levying a new bond measure for "improvements" since that area is "older"? The reasoning for mello roos is for improvements... do you think that area will Never be improved in the future?

- If you're already outgrowing your modest home (how big is it?), then you have to decide what is more important, size? or name of the City? Of course there is a compromise, same size, less desirable part of Chino Hills? Moderate size, ok part of City, etc., etc. Regardless, there are going to be sacrifices and compromises.

- HOAs are a hit or miss, and depends on the family/individual. If you already have Gym memberships, join the YMCA, participate in the community, or anything of that sort, then an HOA due won't be much of anything new. At the minimum, an HOA can ensure some sort of solidarity within a community. At the end, it depends on the family/individual. The HOA dues at the Preserve are on a fee schedule. In spite of foreclosures, our dues have been fairly flat and following that fee schedule (based on units built). This is mainly thanks to our developer, the Lewis's, as they have been subsidizing the project and have a long-term vision for the site.

- As far as demographics, the Preserve has a mix of people of all cultures, ages, and social backgrounds. I think it really depends on which community you are looking at as the SFHs usually attract families while the town homes attract working professionals. From my experience, the Preserve is solidly middle to upper middle class. Most people I've met are professionals, teachers, law enforcement, are college educated or self made entrepreneurs. People are generally down to earth and friendly. It's a very family oriented atmosphere, quiet, and in the most part, from those I've talked to, we're glad that we are away from things.

- In terms of safety, in the most part the Preserve is a safe environment, and you see people walking in the evenings, people at the park, and kids riding their bikes. The police have excellent response time to the Preserve, as I've accidentally set off the silent alarm at my home and they came within minutes. The Chino PD, albeit being noted to be rough, are top notch and very professional - they patrol the area routinely. Chino Hills contracts out Police service from San Bernardino County Sheriff's department... Chino has a dedicated full time force.

In terms of numbers, you got them pretty much right except the mello roos would depend on the size of the home (generally speaking around ~1.55% prop tax rate). The HOA, I think is also a little lower for the single family residents without lawn service (~120 for those that don't have yard maintenance, there are a couple tiers at the Preserve ranging from ~120 to 300 for townhomes). At the end, it'll depend on what you value and where you think gives you the most of that value. Well, hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

-chuck22b

[dhalsim2]

Thanks for the replies.

The house that I'm considering at The Preserve is a foreclosure on Garden Park on the west side off of Rincon Meadows Ave. I'm not sure what the name of that community is. It's a 5-bedroom, 5-bath, 4146 sq ft home, so yes, it's got the highest Mello Roos assessment.

I have seen 5-bedroom homes in Chino Hills that are in very good neighborhoods for around $530k, but yes, they're a lot smaller. The one that I put a bid on (but didn't get) was a 2612 sq ft, so yeah, the actual home in The Preserve was a lot nicer. The Chino Hills location seemed to be a lot nicer as it was walking distance to the library, summer concerts in the park, the sports park, the local elementary school and high school, and our church.

I really don't know anything about how HOAs work. My real estate agent said that the HOA for this home is $200, but...
- What does that cover? On Sunday, a sales person over there told me that each community has a different HOA and it covers different things. Some cover cable TV, utilities, etc.; others don't cover anything.
- How do HOA fees go up? Who decides? Are they on a long-term (decades) schedule or does it go to a vote? And if it's determined by a vote, who votes? Developers? Residents?
- I heard that there are multiple HOAs in the preserve. Residents pay a community HOA that covers the community amenities and a Preserve HOA that covers the Parkhouse. Is that true?

When I asked the sales person about the benefits of an HOA, he said that the best benefit is the restriction, as it prevents people in the neighborhood from painting their house neon pink, putting a trampoline out front, etc. I don't currently live in an HOA, yet I don't see any neon pink (or any other gaudy colors) in my neighborhood. I personally don't mind more variety than I see in HOA communities, as I think it adds character to the community. I wouldn't care if a neighbor had a trampoline in the front yard, and wonder if I'd get in trouble for putting a play structure in my back yard. If it's visible over the fence would I get in trouble?

My family lives a pretty frugal lifestyle. We don't have gym memberships, pay TV, etc. We would prefer not to share in the costs of such amenities.

I'm glad to hear about the good demographics for The Preserve. They seem to be close to those here in Chino Hills. I've read on people being pretty down on Chino residents, but I don't have anything against Chino. It's not as nice as Chino Hills, but it's still solidly middle class.

[chino20]

Hello,
I've lived in Chino for 20 years (moved from the San Gabriel Valley). It's been a nice place to raise a family - very safe. For being such a large city, it really feels like a small town The city government is really responsive to resident concerns. There is quite a bit of diversity too (which I think is good for kids). The downside is the location of the dairies Too many flies and mosquitoes - we hoped they would be gone by now! Working with Chino Hills residents is interesting - most are great but (IMO) too many seem to feel they are better than people from other locales. So, just keep that in mind! However, Chino Hills is a beautiful inland valley community - very safe with good schools too.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by dhalsim2

Thanks for the replies.

The house that I'm considering at The Preserve is a foreclosure on Garden Park on the west side off of Rincon Meadows Ave. I'm not sure what the name of that community is. It's a 5-bedroom, 5-bath, 4146 sq ft home, so yes, it's got the highest Mello Roos assessment.
Ah, ok, I think I know where your talking about... basically the Western edge of the Preserve. Those houses are huge! Make sure you account for additional utility, insurance, etc. costs when you go for a larger place.

I have seen 5-bedroom homes in Chino Hills that are in very good neighborhoods for around $530k, but yes, they're a lot smaller. The one that I put a bid on (but didn't get) was a 2612 sq ft, so yeah, the actual home in The Preserve was a lot nicer. The Chino Hills location seemed to be a lot nicer as it was walking distance to the library, summer concerts in the park, the sports park, the local elementary school and high school, and our church.
Seems like that was close to perfect location. The bidding on those places would probably be pretty fierce. It sounds like it would of suited you better... but the size, for a large family might be a bit cozy.

I really don't know anything about how HOAs work. My real estate agent said that the HOA for this home is $200, but...
- What does that cover? On Sunday, a sales person over there told me that each community has a different HOA and it covers different things. Some cover cable TV, utilities, etc.; others don't cover anything.
Depends on the community. I've posted a link to a post I made about what I know about what the HOA covers. Mostly, for SFHs, it's the landscaping and the Parkhouse facilities. In addition, for townhomes, it covers building structures and some utilities (ie part of your home insurance costs).
- How do HOA fees go up? Who decides? Are they on a long-term (decades) schedule or does it go to a vote? And if it's determined by a vote, who votes? Developers? Residents?
The Board decides on what the annual budget is, and if the current HOA can cover expenses. It also follows a rough fee schedule I think that is mandated by the Realtor association. The Board is a mix of residents voted in, with some developers, I think there are 5 volunteer positions. Basically, in an HOA, the residents who participate have a lot of say. Just depends on how involved you like/not like to be.
- I heard that there are multiple HOAs in the preserve. Residents pay a community HOA that covers the community amenities and a Preserve HOA that covers the Parkhouse. Is that true?
Yup, there are mainly two, community and maintenance organization. That is why some places have higher dues than others. For the SFHs, that do their own lawns, it shouldn't be as high... but I'm not exactly sure how much they were back then... since the houses on the West side of the Preserve are the ones that were first built.

When I asked the sales person about the benefits of an HOA, he said that the best benefit is the restriction, as it prevents people in the neighborhood from painting their house neon pink, putting a trampoline out front, etc. I don't currently live in an HOA, yet I don't see any neon pink (or any other gaudy colors) in my neighborhood. I personally don't mind more variety than I see in HOA communities, as I think it adds character to the community. I wouldn't care if a neighbor had a trampoline in the front yard, and wonder if I'd get in trouble for putting a play structure in my back yard. If it's visible over the fence would I get in trouble?
Our board and review committees are fairly accommodating. There's a list of things that are already pre-approved including screen doors, satellite dishes, etc. I'm not sure about a play structure... but it might be on that list. Basically, yes, an HOA provides some conformity and standards. But it also ensures a certain level of upkeep in the community instead of solely relying on the City.

My family lives a pretty frugal lifestyle. We don't have gym memberships, pay TV, etc. We would prefer not to share in the costs of such amenities.

I'm glad to hear about the good demographics for The Preserve. They seem to be close to those here in Chino Hills. I've read on people being pretty down on Chino residents, but I don't have anything against Chino. It's not as nice as Chino Hills, but it's still solidly middle class.

Hi dhalism2,
No problem... I talked about the HOA at the Preserve a little while ago, and bellow is a link to that post:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-b...ml#post7867429

As far as total costs. You also have to include the costs that you'd incur in Chino Hills. With a more expensive house, the difference between a 530k house and a 400k can be 130k in extra property taxes:

130k * 1.05% base tax rate = 1,365k / year or 113.75 more a month

Additionally, your down payment would be close to an extra 25k more and you'll also be "borrowing" close to an extra 100k more.

After a little investigation, I found that Chino Hills has a lot of communities with CFDs as well. It looks like Chino Hills has at least 10 CFDs covering most of Chino Hills (Chino Hills is relatively new as well, and of course, "new" stuff = more levies and bonds for improvements). If the area your looking at is older and currently has zero CFDs, the City can very well initiate a new bond for that area for "neighborhood" improvements - after all, practically all of Chino Hills has improvement districts and they wouldn't want a blight spot in the city would they?
http://www.chinohills.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=39

Best bet, is to check the property tax records for your address and see what kind of tax bill the property has had in the past:
Tax Collector » Pay Online

Anyhow, best of luck in your search. Make sure you account for the hidden costs in both locations, including potentially higher insurance costs in the Hills because of fire hazard, etc., etc.

Good luck! IMO, the Chino Valley is a great place to live and raise a family.

-chuck22b

[waggie]

I'd stay away from the Preserve, only because of the mello roos

[dhalsim2]

Originally Posted by chino20

Hello,
I've lived in Chino for 20 years (moved from the San Gabriel Valley). It's been a nice place to raise a family - very safe. For being such a large city, it really feels like a small town The city government is really responsive to resident concerns. There is quite a bit of diversity too (which I think is good for kids). The downside is the location of the dairies Too many flies and mosquitoes - we hoped they would be gone by now! Working with Chino Hills residents is interesting - most are great but (IMO) too many seem to feel they are better than people from other locales. So, just keep that in mind! However, Chino Hills is a beautiful inland valley community - very safe with good schools too.

I went to elementary school in South Ontario and junior high at Ramona Jr High both in the CVUSD. Then I went to high school in Ayala and agree that it was "interesting" dealing with Chino Hills residents. It was actually a bit of culture shock at first. I was totally blown away about how snobby everyone was.

With that realization, I've made a conscious effort to prevent that from rubbing off on me. I hope I didn't come across as thinking I'm better than Chino residents. Perhaps I did. Maybe after all these years, I've unknowingly succumb to my environment. If so, I sincerely apologize.

[chino20]

Oh Dhalsim2 - definitely no offense taken!