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Really, then how come in the media the unions say, "it's for the kid$$, your $$$afety (even though cops in crime ridden cities get paid less than safe locales), it's for our $$ervicess.. I'll give you credit as you agree it really is "for our pocket$$$" all along.
At least you're candid enough in that you know you're in it primarily for the money given by SD taxpayers (ala working the system) and actual "Public Service duties" seem secondary.
Re: your attempt to twist numbers to fit your agenda, maybe a simple visual from Bureau of Economic Analysis will end your rhetoric.
What, exactly, is my agenda??? I'm simply stating personal experience and trying to put another perspective out there.
As for my public service duties, I'm proud of what I do, and I've done work towards several things to make YOUR life and community better/safer in the past 24 hours. But people should be ashamed for thinking about how they're gonna live/retire? Employees should say "no, don't give me the benefits, I'd rather work for free?"
What, exactly, is my agenda??? I'm simply stating personal experience and trying to put another perspective out there.
As for my public service duties, I'm proud of what I do, and I've done work towards several things to make YOUR life and community better/safer in the past 24 hours. But people should be ashamed for thinking about how they're gonna live/retire? Employees should say "no, don't give me the benefits, I'd rather work for free?"
Jeez.
Thanks for the nastiness, though, it made my day.
Your agenda is you're trying to defend your bloated pay and benefits with distortion.
Your agenda is you're trying to defend your bloated pay and benefits with distortion.
I said I make less than I would in the private sector. That is a stone-cold fact. I also said that many people I work with also make less than they would in the private sector. That is also a stone-cold fact.
Some people are making more than they would in the private sector. That's also a fact. SOME cities are corrupt/overpaying their top people. That's a fact too, and it needs to be looked at/corrected.
But not EVERYONE who is a public employee is making bank/getting rich/ getting overpaid. That's my point. Make of that what you will.
But since you say I'm twisting facts, let me just cut-and-paste the summary of the USA today article that you all keep referring to:
" • Federal. The federal pay premium cut across all job categories — white-collar, blue-collar, management, professional, technical and low-skill. In all, 180 jobs paid better average salaries in the federal government; 36 paid better in the private sector.
•Private. The private sector paid more on average in a select group of high-skill occupations, including lawyers, veterinarians and airline pilots. The government's 5,200 computer research scientists made an average of $95,190, about $10,000 less than the average in the corporate world.
•State and local. State government employees had an average salary of $47,231 in 2008, about 5% less than comparable jobs in the private sector. City and county workers earned an average of $43,589, about 2% more than private workers in similar jobs. State and local workers have higher total compensation than private workers when the value of benefits is included."
This doesn't suggest bloated salaries, at least on the State and Local level. (I'm not speaking to the Federal level, nor have I been throughout this whole conversation) In fact it suggests that it goes both ways depending on what positions people are filling. Plus these are averages, so some people will be below the bar, while some will be above.
I repeat: my point is just that not EVERYONE who is a public employee is making bank/getting rich/ getting overpaid.
What, exactly, is my agenda??? I'm simply stating personal experience and trying to put another perspective out there.
As for my public service duties, I'm proud of what I do, and I've done work towards several things to make YOUR life and community better/safer in the past 24 hours. But people should be ashamed for thinking about how they're gonna live/retire? Employees should say "no, don't give me the benefits, I'd rather work for free?"
Jeez.
Thanks for the nastiness, though, it made my day.
Don't listen to a word newjitty says. He's been flooding the NJ boards with this garbage for weeks. Turns out He doesn't live in NJ, and has only been in this country for a few years, but turns out HE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS to services he has no understanding about or PAYS FOR.
He goes on and calls people lairs, yet hes the one who doesn't pay a DIME in NJ taxes, yet call its HIS TAX DOLLARS.
Don't listen to a word newjitty says. He's been flooding the NJ boards with this garbage for weeks. Turns out He doesn't live in NJ, and has only been in this country for a few years, but turns out HE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS to services he has no understanding about or PAYS FOR.
He goes on and calls people lairs, yet hes the one who doesn't pay a DIME in NJ taxes, yet call its HIS TAX DOLLARS.
I thought you blocked me after you couldn't produce any facts or figures and resorted to personal attacks (like in this post) after I schooled you by providing NJ.GOV, Bureau of Labor, and BEA figures?
Did you ever fix your Excel that "magically stopped" working when I linked you to 67 teachers in one NJ jurisdiction making over $100,000, confirmed by other posters who had no problem seeing it?
My company is based out of NY, and I've been stationed in Ridgewood, NJ, therefore paid NJ taxes where income was earned (as I will this year for CA), and am closing on a unit in NJ i.e., will continue paying NJ taxes to support your wife's salary and benefits (or do you have selective reading?)
Re: "flooding the NJ forum" with my 2 threads:
Step #1: Look at your join date and look at mine.
Step #2: Look at your number of posts, then mine.
Nice to see I'm high priority in your life, you didn't block me after all? I have a fan!
Oh btw, on behalf of other NJ taxpayers YOU'RE WELCOME for us paying your wife's salary, retirement, and benefits. Not one thanks, that's quite rude now.
Did you ever fix your Excel that "magically stopped" working when I linked you to 67 teachers in one NJ jurisdiction making over $100,000, confirmed by other posters who had no problem seeing it?
You where 100 percent right! When I check at home I could see it. Still, doesn't disprove this point. Side stepped it last time, LESS then 2 percent of NJ teachers make over 100,000.
My company is based out of NY, and I've been stationed in Ridgewood, NJ, therefore paid NJ taxes where income was earned (as I will this year for CA), and am closing on a unit in NJ i.e., will be paying NJ RE taxes to support your wife's salary and benefits (or do you have selective reading?)
Why do you say in other post that you live in Manhattan? Sounds like a lie too me. You call everyone else who disagrees with you a liar, and here you are being completely false yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newjitty
Step #1: Look at your join date and look at mine.
Step #2: Look at your number of posts, then mine.
huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newjitty
Nice to see I'm high priority in your life, I have a fan!
I have to say I do like arguing with bigoted people. I guess I am a fan!
Quote:
Originally Posted by newjitty
Oh btw, on behalf of other NJ taxpayers YOU'RE WELCOME for us paying your wife's salary, retirement, and benefits. Not one thanks, that's quite rude now.
Since you are not one, I'll take that thanks later when you live in NJ, and maybe understand the services you get. Or you can thank her for the big strides in HIV treatment she is doing, or her work with Cdiff. Not all government money goes to waste.
FYI As a doctor that works for Rutgers, with a clinical background and a specialist in infectious diseases, she makes 83,500 a year. Talk about raping the system! NO Pension, and no pays into the health care system.
Ps. You Certainly NEVER schooled me. You would side stepped every point I had and not to mention you would take words out of context. Then since you act like a child you get nasty, just like you did to other people here. After time most adults don't want to argue with a child. Of course this is something you don't understand.
I said I make less than I would in the private sector. That is a stone-cold fact. I also said that many people I work with also make less than they would in the private sector. That is also a stone-cold fact.
Some people are making more than they would in the private sector. That's also a fact. SOME cities are corrupt/overpaying their top people. That's a fact too, and it needs to be looked at/corrected.
But not EVERYONE who is a public employee is making bank/getting rich/ getting overpaid. That's my point. Make of that what you will.
But since you say I'm twisting facts, let me just cut-and-paste the summary of the USA today article that you all keep referring to:
" • Federal. The federal pay premium cut across all job categories — white-collar, blue-collar, management, professional, technical and low-skill. In all, 180 jobs paid better average salaries in the federal government; 36 paid better in the private sector.
•Private. The private sector paid more on average in a select group of high-skill occupations, including lawyers, veterinarians and airline pilots. The government's 5,200 computer research scientists made an average of $95,190, about $10,000 less than the average in the corporate world.
•State and local. State government employees had an average salary of $47,231 in 2008, about 5% less than comparable jobs in the private sector. City and county workers earned an average of $43,589, about 2% more than private workers in similar jobs. State and local workers have higher total compensation than private workers when the value of benefits is included."
This doesn't suggest bloated salaries, at least on the State and Local level. (I'm not speaking to the Federal level, nor have I been throughout this whole conversation) In fact it suggests that it goes both ways depending on what positions people are filling. Plus these are averages, so some people will be below the bar, while some will be above.
I repeat: my point is just that not EVERYONE who is a public employee is making bank/getting rich/ getting overpaid.
EVERYONE except the highest level government elected employes, who had the skill and luck to get elected to those positions(they for sure would of managed Chief officer positions in private companies with much higher compensation packages) is getting overpaid compaired to the free market empoyes. If you look at the benefits included, tremendous benefits that after 10 years of work can parlay into if you would work, for lets say as little as 10 years, 45-55, and then draw them at 65, for maybe up to 35 years with annual increases, compensation would be much higher for government workers in those top select group of high-skill occupations. The lawyers, veterinarians and airline pilots and government's 5,200 computer research scientists made an average of $95,190, about $10,000 less than the average in the corporate world,that 10, would be gained back many times over. Not to mention the productivity, being pushed out of the private sector, did yo ever see a Librarian stressed out over the book check out counter. Contrast that to a Best Buy Store Manager, who is lucky to have a job.
You where 100 percent right! When I check at home I could see it.
So which is it, you keep triple speaking - at first you called the 67 teachers making over $100,000 in one horrid school district "Administrators, and not teachers," then you say you never saw the chart because your Excel "stopped working," now months later you've finally learned how to use Excel and acknowledge them as teachers?
I also like that you left out most NJ teachers pay $0 (yes ZEROO) to contribute to their expensive family health plans. Thanks taxpayers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym81
Ps. You Certainly NEVER schooled me.
Defensive much? I've forwarded 3 sets of data ALL from governmental agencies, you've yet to produce one figure outside of that to support your claims - just your "personal experience" of your pauper wife who makes a measly $80,000++ at the taxpayers' dime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym81
After time most adults don't want to argue with a child.
If I'm a supposed "child," what's a guy who devoted 6 pages of personal ranting without being able to produce 1 supported figure using total compensation to base his assertions on? An infant?
Oh, and again I thought you blocked me, or was that just another lie? Nice to know I hold priority in your life.
So which is it, you keep triple speaking - at first you called the 67 teachers making over $100,000 in one horrid school district "Administrators, and not teachers," then you say you never saw the chart because your Excel "stopped working," now months later you've finally learned how to use Excel and acknowledge them as teachers?
I also like that you left out most NJ teachers pay $0 (yes ZEROO) to contribute to their expensive family health plans. Thanks taxpayers!
Defensive much? I've forwarded 3 sets of data ALL from governmental agencies, you've yet to produce one figure outside of that to support your claims - just your "personal experience" of your pauper wife who makes a measly $80,000++ at the taxpayers' dime.
Your own pages says state works make less Read much?
Also I gave you other examples, you said they don't count.... did you forget?
How about you read this study, it breaks things down for you, unlike your article that doesn't go into any detail.
If I'm a supposed "child," what's a guy who devoted 6 pages of personal ranting without being able to produce 1 supported figure using total compensation to base his assertions on? An infant?
See a child would try to insult me by calling my wife salary measly. And doesnt that go along with what I am saying?
Its ok, I forgot with you 2 years experience in the US, and you not even owning a home or living in NJ you have figured out all of the states problems. Not to mention you seem to be paying for it.
Ah yess, let's skip the details. From your posted article:
Nor do the figures "include benefits such as health care and pension. The figures also do not include extra pay that teachers may get for coaching sports teams or running school clubs or other activities."
Yes, let's not even mention that those wages are for 180 school days, less than half the year.
"public school teachers can afford to take a one-year wage freeze and pay at least 1.5 percent of their salary toward the cost of their health benefits — which, he says, can cost up to $22,000 a year for family coverage."
[which they currently pay ZERO contributions to, but let's just overlook that too ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym81
How about you read this study, it breaks things down for you
Yes, let's trust an EPI, union funded "study" attempting to show that Teachers make less, written by a Teacher. No agenda there.
Funny how the crux of that article points to educational background, meaning he's comparing teacher salaries to a population including babysitters and food court employees at the mall to make his point?
Ironic, in negotiating salaries public employees compare themselves to educated CEO's making millions, then when they defend their increased wages, they compare their degrees to low-level/entry jobs, saying the pay is deserved. Pick a defined population and stick to it! But why are they even comparing themselves to private when it's for a "Public Service" position to begin with?
I like how Table 5 clearly shows state and local public employeeswork less hours across ALL levels of education, yet they look at salary in annual terms as opposed to hours or days worked. But let's overlook that minor detail as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym81
Your own pages says state works make less Read much?
Yes, let's not look at total comp - but oh wait even if focusing on salary alone with comparable occupations the new study obviously shows State and Local Gov't making more.
Do you see that little title that says State and Local? Can you differentiate colors? Or are we back to selective reading?
I taught you how to use excel, now I have to teach you how to read charts I see.
So are you finally accepting the truth about 67 teachers making over $100,000, in just one horribly ranked jurisdiction, whom you previously called "Administrators, not teachers?"
You've yet to give a direct answer on just this one issue.
Again, as someone who's paying NJ taxes, you're welcome for your wife's salary.
Last edited by newjitty; 10-13-2010 at 02:58 PM..
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Read much?
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