Let's talk, "The Pension Fiasco". (San Diego, San Jose: middle-class, real estate)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

The Elephant in the room.

Pension crisis: How did we get so far in the red? - SignOnSanDiego.com

[djxpress]

I think the government workers (and unions) are to blame.

I heard a quote on NPR the other day, a Fire Department union spokesperson said something to the effect of "they want us to eliminate our guaranteed pensions and gamble with the stock market by putting our money into a 401k".

Guess what buddy, that's what a majority of employees in the private sector have been doing for years. It's not the responsibility of the taxpayers to subsidize your $100,000 a year pension.

There was a list in the Bay Area published last year (Bay Area Public Employee Salaries 2010 - San Jose Mercury News) that gave public employee salary and benefits. A lot of these employees are making more than doctors, which is ridiculous.

I think there's just this whole sense and culture of entitlement in the public sector, it needs to end, and it needs to end now.

[madegood]

The state didn't pay the matching funds that were built into its own retirement system for long enough for it to become a problem.

Five years ago, I didn't see any tax assessors protesting the inflation related to the housing bubble, they just re-assessed and raked in the chips with both arms like they were on a streak at a casino. Where did all that money go?

Going after pensioners and adjusting current benefits is just an easy fix, buzzword mentality that inspires the crabs-in-a-barrel mentality in middle-class circles, which is just what the wealthiest want - a diversion from voters deciding to elect officials that will tax them.

Declining manufacturing and fleeing corporations are more of a problem than public-sector employees and their benefits.

Fifty years ago a citizen who founded a corporation would have been proud to employ Americans and make his money here. Inflation wasn't out of control and he could afford to pay his employees at least a living wage. He would have paid both his corporate taxes and his individual taxes and felt a sense of patriotism to go along with his sense of capitalism.

Today the corporation and jobs are relocated internationally and the individual taxes on the head of the corporation and top-earning stockholders have been cut.

On top of that, there's an industry-crippling scam/bubble developing every five years or so - Savings and Loans, retirement funds, Internet stocks, Real Estate, Too big to fail Banks and Insurance companies, Food & Oil speculating, etc.

Reasonable capitalist-patriots who conduct business responsibly are dying out in America. Actuaries, durability engineers, and market analysts present prices that are designed to squeeze every dime of disposable income from their target demographic. CEOs gladly push products at those prices to justify their exorbitant salaries. There are stockholders and speculators jumping between American citizens and their necessities at every turn, driving inflation in a struggling job market.

I've never met anyone who has admitted to me that they are overpaid, regardless of how much money they made. I'm sure there are overpaid government employees at every level, but overpaid is a relative term, especially in SoCal. Pensions and benefits seem like easier targets because they evoke the "grass is greener"/envious nature in many but Unions and retirement reform should be low-priority in the scheme of things.

[djxpress]

Originally Posted by madegood

...Too big to fail Banks and Insurance companies...

There is no such thing as too big to fail...they're big and they failed. We bail them out, none of those bankers go to jail. BP sh|ts in the Gulf Coast, and we penalize them with a fine. Where is the accountability? On one count, Bush was probably one of the worst presidents ever, but Obama sure hasn't done anything better. His Hope and Change was a prediction of how I'd be feeling two years into his term.

[tickyul]

I think that one of the huge problems is the city employees do not get Social Security, the city opted out way back when. Now it is just a huge mess that will probably get worse and worse.

It is so hard to navigate change in San Diego......for various reasons, hope for truly meaningful reforms.....well, let's just say I am skeptical.

[djxpress]

Originally Posted by tickyul

the city employees do not get Social Security, the city opted out way back when.

I'm 35, I don't plan on getting Social Security when I retire. I know the system will be bankrupt, and I plan accordingly.

Those that are relying on Social Security to get them by in a couple decades are gonna be in a world of hurt.

[thepinksquid]

I work for an organization here in San Diego that still offers pensions (but we're not technically part of the state/county... we're a non-profit... it's weird). We ALSO get a 403(b) with match... but it's funny how many people seem to not care about utilizing that because of the supposed pension--the concept of it not being there in 30-40 years doesn't seem to cross their minds.

[mlarsen23]

The myth that Social Security is or will be bankrupt is one propagated by Wall Street financiers who want to get their hands on your retirement. Social Security can easily be fixed by raising the amount of income covered by the Social Security payroll tax, and/or with slight adjustments to the benefits. (Just like we did in the 80s). Raising the income limit on the payroll tax would not affect the majority of Americans, who already earn less than this limit. The only way Social Security will go away is if we want it to go away, or if we are just too stupid to vote against the wealthy interests who want it to go away so they can have a little more.

In fact, we shouldn't get mad at public workers for their pensions and demand that they be forced to get stuck rolling the dice with their retirement like the rest of us in 401Ks. We should be thinking about improving Social Security to offer greater benefits so we don't have to worry about how the stock market will be doing in 20 years. It's not so hard - in the richer countries of Europe the average person doesn't have to worry so much about having a decent retirement. It's not so hard if you are willing to consider the notion that a) we don't need to spend as much on our military as the rest of the world combined and b) it is fair and reasonable to tax the wealthiest so that they have just 1,000 times as much money as the average person, rather than the 10,000 times that we have here.

[djxpress]

Actually, it's not a myth. Money Out > Money In = Disaster Waiting To Happen.

[mlarsen23]

All we have to do is raise taxes to around the level of the Reagan & Clinton years, and then Money Out = Money In and it's all good. I know, I know - wouldn't want to do that, taxes killed the economy back then.