America's finest city? A take from an educated East Coaster. (San Diego: rental, condos)

[zaphod-beeblebrox]

I have lived in San Diego for 12 years now and I love same aspects of it and cannot stand some others.

Of course, the weather, the jaw-dropping beauty, the laid-back lifestyle, the accessibility of everything - are all very positive. But the city does not have a cultural scene one can write home about. Period. Nor is the food superb. But most importantly, its a very isolating city with its inherent car-culture, such that you don't "organically" meet people or run-into them easily. For finding culture, great food, or good company, you have to work really *really* hard.

Its a fun beach town if you're in your 20s and a great place to raise a family if you're older. But the comments that talk about "have you heard of this cultural scene" or "that event that no one has heard of" just summarize the situation - the need to try really really hard to find any culture. They themselves admitted "no one has heard of" these events in SD. And recently, the SD Opera closed its doors because it couldn't generate enough interest.

I like some elements of this city, but its a painful place for those who move from a bigger city.

[Think4Yourself]

The Opera might not be closing after all. It's up in the air right now but there has been a revolt which caused the board to resign in favor of people who actually do want to keep it running. They've raised a fair amount of cash donations too though, I understand from listening to KPBS, right now lawyers are hashing out the legal framework for any turn around.

[cityx]

You infer that all military personnel come from a lower, middle class upbringing (which is *really* inaccurate). I love the rich diversity of this city and it's many interesting and historic neighborhoods. Although you mention Los Angeles and San Francisco as being more culturally relevant, I feel that California in general is not the place for you. You really should have stayed back east as it seems to be a better fit for your mindset.

[cityx]

Originally Posted by zaphod-beeblebrox

I have lived in San Diego for 12 years now and I love same aspects of it and cannot stand some others.

I like some elements of this city, but its a painful place for those who move from a bigger city.

*****
After living in Sacramento for 15 years, San Diego is a cultural utopia for me. One of the best cities in the country IMHO.

[cityx]

Originally Posted by mewzikguy

have to respond to this- -
* over 40% of adults in the metro area have at least a bachelor's degree, making it one of the top ten most educated cities.
* we have over 40 theater companies in the county, more than la and sf.
* the new york times did a 2-page spread on sd, talking about the opera, symphony, museums, galleries and called sd a "fine arts powerhouse".
* downtown has been a model for other cities, as city councils from seattle, phoenix, denver, columbus have visited and looked at the redevelopment.
* there are lots of fun neighborhoods with bars, restaurants, shops. Each has its own newspaper/ website.
You're welcome

right on brother !!

[cityx]

Originally Posted by vahnessuh

and laugh (can't find the smiley face for this)

I rarely want to comment negatively on other people's posts... but I can't help but say that what I got from this post is: "educated" = snooty pompous elitist.

Anyone who starts a post saying they're "educated" usually leads to a critical and condescending argument.

[America's Finest City]

Originally Posted by onechase

i'm writing from the perspective of a single, early 30s educated professional.

I moved to san diego about 19 months ago. I can't argue that the weather isn't spectacular or that there aren't plenty of very pretty views. In fact, when people ask me how i like living here, i always reply that san diego is lovely. It really is.

But almost 2 years into living here, i am ready to leave. Culturally san diego is a world apart even from los angeles and orange county. Though there are islands of professional communities mostly in and around la jolla, and plenty of idle rich in del mar and rancho santa fe, most of San Diego is decidedly lower middle class. You can see it in the proliferation of ford f150s, the very strong military element (as a % of the population, no u.s. Urban area has more military connected people than San Diego--


San Diego is a military port, for those of you who don't know these military men and women are serving our country and whatever they can afford to buy for a vehicle is their choice. I don't have a problem with that so why would you? Do you think they should be driving Bently's? There are no "islands" of professional communities mainly around La Jolla, Del Mar, Rancho Santa Fe, Encinitas, Sorrento Valley, etc. Those may be richer people. The rest of the people in sd are not lower middle class, shame on you for inferring they are. They may not be as rich as others, however, by no means the dregs like those in the Bronx, Jamaica, or other New York communities.
I should add that most people in New York City don't even own a car! They depend on public transportation (subway, taxi, bus, etc). After they complain about their high property taxes in ny they sell their property and either move to florida to avoid paying taxes there or to San Diego, for the weather. But they come here and buy a car... Big mistake! Because they don't know how to drive and they have road rage on our freeways, they don't allow others to merge safely onto the freeway as they think they own the road. This is how we know they are not from San Diego.
If you want a lower end property you could always move to east county in sd where you can expect nothing but the lower end of society, as well as in Pacific Beach where the tourists come to encite fights in the bars and go to the beach looking for tourist girls seeking excitement from whoever wants to pay for it.
For you to have lasted here 2 years and still not realized that this is not ny you should have saved enough money to buy a one way ticket back to New York. And when you get there bad mouth San Diego so that nobody from New York ventures to even visit here, saving all the San Diegan's from having to deal with people who clash with our locals. Be careful with your neck being so high and mighty that you don't hurt yourself with the fall on the way down.

You will meet a lot of locals who've rarely left california. For those coming from bigger cities, this will be a big culture shock.

Don't come to live in San Diego, if you're so happy in your big city stay there. That's why San Diego locals don't want to leave, when the best is in San Diego! I've had New Yorkers try to say that they're from San Diego (even though they know they were formerly from New York) but it's obvious by the things they do. Like using their shopping carts to block a store aisle so that no other shopper can pass through. Are they afraid of a discount getting grabbed by another shopper? By their horrible driving or raspy voice. After I ask them again, they say yes, they're from New York.

Not to put too fine a point on it: San Diego totally lacks the sophistication of los angeles and other larger cities, but its prices are just as high. Take restaurants for example. I continue to be very surprised at the consistency with which san diego restaurants offer below average food, below average service and high prices. In all sincerity, i am floored that so many san diego restaurants can charge $30-40 for entrees-- in san francisco and new york this means you're probably getting an excellent meal and being treated like a valued guest.

We ate at the Stage Door Deli, near the World Trade Center. Most of the construction crew were going there to eat. There was so much chaos and rude employees who had no patience from tourists to order, much less to know we had to order and pay at different places since no sign was posted. If you call getting a nice place to sit without people at your elbow eating next to you in New York a fine dining experience you have to be joking. Their prices were very high and by the time i bought a plate with a piece of chicken and rice that was $15. No drink included. They wanted to charge me to refill a dinky plastic cup with their tap water because i had asked for more water! Wow, i couldn't believe that.
In San Diego we have Morton's, Flemings and other high end dining places who charge the same as they would in New York, a lot. And it's all good if you want to impress someone other than your pocketbook. At least we have a variety of foods and prices we can pay in San Diego without getting slammed with high prices all over in New York. The same goes in San Francisco, i had to live there to keep my job and it's not cheap living or eating there. The weather in both New York and San Francisco are equally as bad. Which is why i left San Francisco as soon as i could and bought a house in an affluent area in San Diego when the prices were more affordable in order to keep resale value up later.

With just a few exceptions, in san diego it means average food and indifferent service. It's not that i need to be eating fancy meals all the time, but when i spend $140 for dinner for 2, i really hate feeling like i've been ripped off.

The problem is that you can't get an excellent meal for $30 for entrees in New York City because they don't exsist. I ordered some pasta at Olive Garden (not that it's a fancy restaurant) and paid over $!5 for half a plate of spaghetti, in times square which was outrageous. For four people the bill came to $160 and there was no wine or beverage included. I don't call this fine dining, however, their prices were extremely high and the service was atrocious.

I've never experienced so many servers who feel that they are entitled to 20% gratuities or better just for showing up and restaurants that really don't give a damn whether you liked your meal or not.

At the Olive Garden in Times Square they tacked on their 20% gratuity and they didn't deserve it, especially after the waitress messed up the order and laughed it off as if it was nothing instead of comping that meal for her stupidness of forgetting the meal. A tip should be discretionary commensurable with the service, not at the whim of the restaurant owner to tack it on because they can and they did.

Nightlife is a huge weakness if you're single. The under 25 set will find pacific beach and the gaslamp to be all they hoped and dreamed, full of drunk, barely clothed hardbodies. There is about a 90% chance of witnessing a bar fight on a weekend night in either of these neighborhoods and i am not exaggerating. People here call it the "bro" element. I'm sure you can find bar fights in almost any city, but frankly i am stunned how often i see it here. There really aren't any good after work bars or lounges.

There's no good after work bars or lounges because the people in San Diego don't rely on liquor after working like they do in nyc. That's called major stress or depression and trying to parlay that into getting lucky to remove stress later on at the expense of some female who is so drunk to know better in New York.
There's more to nightlife if you are single. You should be thinking of educating yourself so that you can get a better job than the one you hopefully have, and that's not in the bars.
If you're really desperate for a hardbody, barely clothed female they have them walking on the sidewalks in nyc. The fights you may see in Pacific Beach are all incited by tourists who become drunk and belligerent because they don't have anything else to do but to provoke a fight for their excitement. Most of the people in pb are low budget tourists looking for a beach and cheaper hotel room then they look for night time local bars to cater to those.
If you don't like the fighting then don't go to Pacific Beach.

I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. I'm writing this maybe to help out some others who might be on the fence about coming here from the east, l.a. Or northern california. I wish i had been able to know all of this; i would not have come here in the first place.

if you're on the fence don't do what this east coaster did to just move here without doing his homework. This is not a pushy place like New York City, we don't push people off the sidewalk bumping into them when walking we don't have to pay a lot to eat a simple meal. We have cars here we drive and that means if you decide to come and drive your car here have a different more patient attitude as not to hurt anybody. If you can't do at least that then don't come, we don't need you that bad here. Stay there to help New York with their property taxes and be happy there in the cold rain, freezing snow, etc. While we in San Diego may not choose to think about how you're suffering there but choosing to remain there to live by choice.

[elchevere]

"downtown has been a model for other cities, as city councils from seattle, phoenix, denver, columbus have visited and looked at the redevelopment"

...huh?....the downtown areas of Seattle, Phoenix, and Denver (Columbus, Ohio not even worth my time and effort) have been more established and more developed than 'downtown' San Diego for a long time...Coors Field revitalized downtown Denver far earlier than downtown SD's scene and, in fact, Petco Park and the development of the immediate areas was modeled after Denver--not the other way around. Seattle's downtown has been considerably more vibrant than downtown SD (not to mention far better food scene) and if--though I highly doubt it--SD gets its act together by agreeing to build a new downtown football stadium next to Petco we will be following the Seattle model--not the other way around. In fact, it has been noted SD downtown has attempted to emulate downtown Vancouver , BC.

As for dining, I don't see downtown SD as the model for many placs (let alone NYC, SF, Chi, DC, New Orleans, etc etc etc) nor is SD the model for nightlife--rather it has tried copying NYC, LA, Vegas, and Miami.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by onechase

You can see it in the proliferation of Ford F150s,

LOL, I feel out of place in my 4 door Chevrolet Silverado in many parts of San Diego, not East County obviously. I wonder where the OP lived where there was a "proliferation of F150's,"? ...those whacky lowbrow pick up truck drivers . If only we could all be educated and of superior mindset like the OP and would drive Smart cars.

Honestly around San Diego, I see more BMW's, Mercedes, Toyota Camry's, and Honda Civics than I do pick up trucks, especially when driving on the 5 freeway.

[elchevere]

"This is not a pushy place like New York City, we don't push people off the sidewalk bumping into them when walking we don't have to pay a lot to eat a simple meal"

....have you been to the Gaslamp?...and at least in NYC you can get a good to great meal and get simple meals as well for not a lot.

"if you're on the fence don't do what this east coaster did to just move here without doing his homework"

...I agree.

"Stay there to help New York with their property taxes and be happy there in the cold rain, freezing snow, etc. While we in San Diego may not choose to think about how you're suffering there but choosing to remain there to live by choice."

...that's true--SD has better climate just as NYC has better career and job prospects, more educated people, better universities, more cultural and intellectual opportunities, closer proximity to other dynamic cultural urban hubs, more competitive, more expensive, best and most diverse population and food in the country, financial/fashion/media capitol of the country, more congested.....you have to decide what's best for you....SF and Santa Monica is probably a better fit for most people who grew up in the NY metro area who decide to relocate to CA.....if you are tired of winter, SD is for you (along with Florida); if your career aspiration is to make $50K/year, Manhattan (as well as SF, Chi, Boston, etc) is not for you.