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Some great observations and points by the OP. I also agree with a good majority of it actually. The delivery was a bit crass though and slightly amateurish.
This leads to one of the points that I see here on city-data quite a lot. The emphasis to folks looking to move here BEFORE actually moving that, in a nutshell, SD is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. Its industry strengths are in military and tourism. Anyone that has lived here long enough cant deny that as being a fair observation. It is what it is. Sure there are other micro industries but the bread and butter are those two.
The part I am a little bit confused about is the comparison to other cities. I have never seen or heard about SD fulfilling the needs of a sophisticated foodie or a place that bathes in world renowned culture that rivals other large metro cities? That was way out there.
The good news is, everywhere isnt like SD, so catering to the needs of the OP should be quite easy. DC, LA, NYC...plenty to choose from. As another note if you are someone that is reading it as an educated east coaster, is that it pays to do some research before looking to move.
At least, this is what any diligent street smart wise person would do from the east coast.
Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 06-19-2011 at 10:01 AM..
Have to respond to this- -
* Over 40% of adults in the metro area have at least a bachelor's degree, making it one of the top ten most educated cities.
--> Probably true, but I find that people here, compared to the metro areas the OP mentioned, have degrees from relatively lower-tier universities. Also, people in SD are generally less interested in discussing interesting topics, as the OP said. Our conversations in the Bay Area are always much more interesting that here in SD, with exceptions on both sides.
* We have over 40 theater companies in the county, more than LA and SF.
--> You need to look at per capita data, not absolute. SD County has 3.5 million people, while SF "county" is only 7 x 7 miles in area and has only 800,000 out of 7 million in its metro area. Also, what is the relative quality of performing arts in various cities? This sounds like an impressive statistic, but it's not very telling.
* The New York Times did a 2-page spread on SD, talking about the opera, symphony, museums, galleries and called SD a "fine arts powerhouse".
--> I do think SD is underrated in terms of cultural arts. Conde Nast readers consistently vote SD as among the worst of American cities for this category, but compared to many other cities, we do have quite a bit to offer. The museums are smaller and don't have major collections, the opera isn't as renowned, but there is enough to keep our many arts enthusiasts interested, while occasionally making a jaunt to LA or SF for something major.
* Downtown has been a model for other cities, as city councils from Seattle, Phoenix, Denver, Columbus have visited and looked at the redevelopment.
--> Phoenix and Columbus I can see, but Denver and Seattle? Seattle in particular has a much more massive skyline and a much more vibrant urban core, with almost a mini-SF sort of vibe. SD is much sleepier.
* There are lots of fun neighborhoods with bars, restaurants, shops. Each has its own newspaper/ website.
--> Agreed! I can think of a good 17 cool neighborhoods between SD city and North County that should keep people interested. While I can count two dozen in SF alone, and dozens more in the greater Bay Area, I think SD beats many cities (including LA) for its breadth of urban neighborhoods and their vibe. SD is at least unpretentious but still kind of cool.
I do have to agree with the OP about the restaurant and bar scene here -- totally behind the 8-ball, overpriced, and bad food compared to what you'd get in the cities he mentioned.
As I have said in previous posts, San Diego feels to me like San Francisco and the general Bay Area did in the late 1990's, before the dotcom era really took hold and changed the landscape.
As a Bay Area native and current part-time Bay Area resident, I totally agree. SD is like a more manageable Bay Area, with a mix of cool urban neighorhoods and family suburbs, with lots of outdoor recreation. It lacks LA and OC's shallow materialism (except in pockets like La Jolla, but the Area has pockets too), and people here appreciate walkable city neighborhoods more than in those other parts of SoCal too.
I can't say I disagree with most of your statements. However, as a fellow educated east coaster, I am thoroughly disappointed that you failed to do any research on San Diego and apparently thought it was something it isn't, has never been, and most likely never will be.
Agreed that the post was well-written, and I don't doubt OP is an educated East Coaster. I actually agree with some of what he says...if you're looking for an elitist (or pseudo-elitist) crowd, San Diego probably isn't the city for you. Though I found it interesting that OP seemed to be living in La Jolla, which I was about to list as one of the exception areas to the rule. Sounds like NY or LA is a better bet for OP.
OP is spot-on about PB and Gaslamp though, and the speakeasy comment is accurate. But every city I've been to has it's own "Bro" area. In SD it unfortunately happens to be where most of the nightlife is centered...
As an "educated East coaster", I have to smile at this post from onechaser. Some of these same arguments were things we worried about when moving to San Diego; the limited availability of professional level jobs, sub-par food in restaurants, the laid back lifestyle being too laid back, obsession with dive bars, etc. After thorough research, we decided these were things we were willing to deal with to live in a city we otherwise love.
Then we moved here and really started to explore our new city. Some of those original assumptions turned out to be grossly inaccurate. Our view of sub-par restaurants (we're foodies!!) turned out to be we were eating at the wrong places. We kept trying to eat "east coast" food and drink "east coast" drinks. Then we were introduced to local IPAs, the local/fresh foods movement, Mexican cuisine, etc. That same dive bar we originally turned our noses up at turned out to have one of the largest selection of IPAs and surprisingly inventive food. We stopped eating Atlantic fish at restaurants and started eating fish native to the Pacific. Mexican food went from an unhealthy/late night indulgence (okay - this still happens!) to realizing some of the freshest produce and ingredients to be had are found in authentic Mexican cuisine.
As for the job market, my husband's and my research turned out to be true in our respective industries. There are certainly jobs here, but in general we can go elsewhere and find much higher salaries, better advancement opportunities, and more people like "us". On the positive side we no longer work 70-100 hour weeks, conversations with new acquaintances don't center around our jobs and career accomplishments, and Sunday is no longer spent "getting ready" to go back to work on Monday but enjoying a San Diego tradition of "Sunday Fun-day." As an added bonus, our friendship circles have expanded from people almost exactly like us to people from all walks of life.
I don't begrudge onechase his post, because I feel people should find where they are most comfortable and San Diego doesn't seem to be that place. For me, I realized that I needed to take a closer look and stop expecting things to be just like on the East Coast but with better weather. As a co-worker put it, "On the East Coast you live to work, but in San Diego you work to live." And I'm glad San Diego has made that happen in our lives.
Some great observations and points by the OP. I also agree with a good majority of it actually. The delivery was a bit crass though and slightly amateurish.
This leads to one of the points that I see here on city-data quite a lot. The emphasis to folks looking to move here BEFORE actually moving that, in a nutshell, SD is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. Its industry strengths are in military and tourism. Anyone that has lived here long enough cant deny that as being a fair observation. It is what it is. Sure there are other micro industries but the bread and butter are those two.
The part I am a little bit confused about is the comparison to other cities. I have never seen or heard about SD fulfilling the needs of a sophisticated foodie or a place that bathes in world renowned culture that rivals other large metro cities? That was way out there.
The good news is, everywhere isnt like SD, so catering to the needs of the OP should be quite easy. DC, LA, NYC...plenty to choose from. As another note if you are someone that is reading it as an educated east coaster, is that it pays to do some research before looking to move.
At least, this is what any diligent street smart wise person would do from the east coast.
I agree with a lot of the OP and your post as well.
The part I'm still scratching my head over however is the remark about it being predominantly lower middle class. Sounds to me like the OP spent a lot of time in maybe Mountain View, Shelltown, Encanto and Emerald Hills. Even the other communities in "southeast" are more solidly middle class. Places like Clairemont, University City, and Mission Hills certainly are middle class. Scripps Ranch, indeed just about anything with ranch or rancho in it's name certainly qualify for upper middle class to well off status.
I agree with much of the feedback to the OP, so in order to test its validity, I'm going to go on the NYC board and post a big long rant about how I'm a San Diego-born and raised surfer who moved to NYC and am very disappointed in the lack of a good surf scene there, how I can't find good greasy Mexican food, and what's with all the rush-rush attitude and cold weather from October through March? I'll report back on my findings.
I'm kidding of course.
Some great observations and points by the OP. I also agree with a good majority of it actually. The delivery was a bit crass though and slightly amateurish.
This leads to one of the points that I see here on city-data quite a lot. The emphasis to folks looking to move here BEFORE actually moving that, in a nutshell, SD is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. Its industry strengths are in military and tourism. Anyone that has lived here long enough cant deny that as being a fair observation. It is what it is. Sure there are other micro industries but the bread and butter are those two.
The part I am a little bit confused about is the comparison to other cities. I have never seen or heard about SD fulfilling the needs of a sophisticated foodie or a place that bathes in world renowned culture that rivals other large metro cities? That was way out there.
The good news is, everywhere isnt like SD, so catering to the needs of the OP should be quite easy. DC, LA, NYC...plenty to choose from. As another note if you are someone that is reading it as an educated east coaster, is that it pays to do some research before looking to move.
At least, this is what any diligent street smart wise person would do from the east coast.
As usual, I totally agree with Shmoov's points. I found his comments to be spot on target and agreed with them.
I don't think the OP should be slammed on all the points he mentioned because I think some of them are accurate.
I'm not from the East Coast but I'd like to think of myself as educated and certainly I'm a professional. Definitely well traveled spending much of each year traveling around the world.
I wouldn't think anyone moving to San Diego is looking for some cultural mecca. That isn't why most people move out here. I often think life is what you make of it and who you associate with in any city you live in around the world. I've lived in a few cities outside of the USA as well. A city can be as good or as bad as you make it.
What I've found is there is very rarely a 'perfect city' that has everything you want. It's impossible. Each city has it's positives and negatives. The great thing is if you don't like San Diego you can move to another city you like better. Life is too short not to live in a city you truly enjoy and love. But you have to keep in mind other cities might have some aspects you are looking for but they will definitely have other negative aspects too. Until you get there and living life daily it's hard to pick up on many of them. (However I will mention, several that you mentioned you could understand before you made the move with some good due diligence).
We had the good fortune to be able to live anywhere in the world we wanted to live. Doing LOTS of due diligence and lots of traveling to other cities and countries to evaluate them. We chose San Diego and I'm sure we're not going to regret it. A perfect city it isn't but from all my extensive travels...there are LOTS of worse cities out there. For what we were looking for and to raise our kids... San Diego is about as perfect as it gets for us.
Let us know where you ended up moving to and how you like it. Best of luck to you.
PS - I'd be curious to know which part of San Diego you live in? What do you do for a living? How have you gone about meeting new people and making friends? We know about all of the negative things you didn't like but be objective and tell us the top 10 things you do like about San Diego (besides the weather). Thanks.
Last edited by earlyretirement; 06-19-2011 at 02:25 PM..
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