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Old 11-12-2014, 11:52 PM
 
1,175 posts, read 1,904,165 times
Reputation: 999

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeUSA View Post
San Diego undoubtedly has sophistication. The indie and artsy vibe you are picking up on is strongest in the reaches of the metropolitan area that stretches from East Village all the way to Encinitas. This includes the Gaslamp, Little Italy, North Park, Sunset Cliffs, O.B., La Jolla, Del Mar, Rancho Santa Fe, Fairbanks Ranch, and Solana Beach... among other neighborhoods and villages.

Perhaps I can provide a local perspective to allow others the opportunity to understand how San Diego truly operates. The coast of most California cities are among the wealthiest communities in the nation, often accompanied by a strong background in education, solid work ethic, and an active go-get it lifestyle. Many of these types of San Diegans travel to cosmopolitan cities around the world, they engage in affairs globally, at places and meetings located in and around San Diego. Perhaps it's a coincidence that San Francisco has been the number one destination for out of bound San Diego flights. One can expect an exchange of thoughts and ideas, of culture.

If you're not enjoying yourself here, you need to find another place to live. But chances are, San Diego isn't the rock in your path... you are. When in San Diego, act as the San Diegans do. Take up hobbies, get outside, push yourself physically and mentally. You will encounter others doing the same. You aren't going to meet most of the people you'll spend your time with on the streets, you're going to meet them living proactively. People here are intellectual, but they will discuss these types of issues in the lineup, at the gym, in the smoothie bar during a lunch break, maybe even at a sunset cliff location. The city is extremely intelligent, college ratings consistently place San Diego schools in top rankings. Many of the city's local population attends these institutions.

San Diego is not like other American cities, California cities never have been. It's different, wild, and it's something you have to go after... it's not going to fall into your lap, and that's a good thing.

I think this is more a PR message than reality. Many of California's coastal cities are filled with older people or wealthy people who made their money someplace else and kind of retired to the coast Guys like Romney spend time in and own homes in La Jolla. He never made his money here nor really considers himself from here. Del Mar is filled with a lot of people who moved away because they got rich off of their homes. And if live in Del Mar, at least near the coast, it's mostly older people who don't work at all.

Or there are a lot of people like me or beyond me who don't really work in SD or California, but like living near the coast. There is a huge difference between a place like say NYC where many people might not live in the city, but many people work and party in the city. Or they just work there. SD is just not a place where most people made their money nor continue to make their money.

So if I travel to China or Texas or San Fran or NYC because that's where the business is, that's where the money is and so on, it has nothing to do with San Diego, I just live here and am lucky enough to be doing something where people work for me, I work remote often, travel now and again and so on. But again, a lot of the wealth in SD isn't from SD. Whereas places like SF and NYC, the wealth is usually from there. Big difference.
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:03 PM
 
38 posts, read 55,898 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro2000 View Post
I think this is more a PR message than reality. Many of California's coastal cities are filled with older people or wealthy people who made their money someplace else and kind of retired to the coast Guys like Romney spend time in and own homes in La Jolla. He never made his money here nor really considers himself from here. Del Mar is filled with a lot of people who moved away because they got rich off of their homes. And if live in Del Mar, at least near the coast, it's mostly older people who don't work at all.

Or there are a lot of people like me or beyond me who don't really work in SD or California, but like living near the coast. There is a huge difference between a place like say NYC where many people might not live in the city, but many people work and party in the city. Or they just work there. SD is just not a place where most people made their money nor continue to make their money.

So if I travel to China or Texas or San Fran or NYC because that's where the business is, that's where the money is and so on, it has nothing to do with San Diego, I just live here and am lucky enough to be doing something where people work for me, I work remote often, travel now and again and so on. But again, a lot of the wealth in SD isn't from SD. Whereas places like SF and NYC, the wealth is usually from there. Big difference.
Interestingly enough, you paraphrased an aspect of my previous post... However, I have a difficult time preparing a proper response to your post because I have no idea what your underlying message is. The majority of what you said has no foundation in current economic trends nor gives light to the entire demographic situation of the area.

Many do live in San Diego but travel for business. Welcome to globalization, this happens everywhere in cities around the world. It's important where these people live because well, taxes. It's not the most difficult concept to grasp... Additionally, choosing to live in an area is an investment of both time and money; San Diegans spend both their time and money well.

The median age of Del Mar is 48, this isn't terribly old but you might be surprised to learn that those North County coastal towns aren't filled with solely aged and wealthy. There is a very vibrant, refreshing presence generated by the cultural implications of an action-oriented lifestyle. One of San Diego's emerging economic industries is action-lifestyle sports branding, so it's really no surprise from a socio-economic perspective.

Now, to discuss the matter of wealth in places like San Francisco and New York City. I'm not sure if you're speaking with relevance to personal wealth or general wealth. Either way, San Francisco, New York City, and San Diego are all centers of industry that breed wealth given the economic activity in their respective metropolitan areas. All of these cities have large numbers of foreigners and wealthy, out of country/state business owners whose wealth "is [not] usually from there." The ratios and proportions of said "out of city" wealth to local, indigenous wealth may differ but each city is a different animal. There are wealthy families who have lived in San Diego for generations, since the time of the Ranches and continue to do so.

There's a big difference in what I'm saying and what you're saying. You do not strike me as a local given your mindset, but it's great to see what other San Diegans think! We're all a little different and I suppose we all appreciate different things. Thank you for your contributions to this thread.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:38 PM
 
Location: North Dallas via NYC and St Louis
42 posts, read 65,484 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeUSA View Post
San Diego undoubtedly has sophistication. The indie and artsy vibe you are picking up on is strongest in the reaches of the metropolitan area that stretches from East Village all the way to Encinitas. This includes the Gaslamp, Little Italy, North Park, Sunset Cliffs, O.B., La Jolla, Del Mar, Rancho Santa Fe, Fairbanks Ranch, and Solana Beach... among other neighborhoods and villages.
As much as I love living here, I don't think of it as "sophisticated" - as I said in my earlier post, I don't equivocate sophistication with education. Also, I just don't think of indie as sophisticated. There might be some sophistication among the indie arts, but its not the norm, that I have seen. Laguna Beach has a much more sophisticated art scene, and some of it very indie but most probably not. San Diego is more eclectic than sophisticated, though occasionally sophistication raises a knowing gaze from within the melee. We are a mish mash of cultures and idealogues which, much like the freeways, isn't planned but somehow, someway creates beauty and pleasure for those who tune in.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:44 PM
 
4,294 posts, read 4,386,799 times
Reputation: 5729
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBard View Post
San Diego is more eclectic than sophisticated
And that is why I like San Diego. It's a quirky town with beautiful scenery friendly people and it's next door to Mexico when you want to escape for some fun.


It seems like people enjoy a really good quality of life in San Diego. You can see it in their faces and how they act.

Don't Change a thing.
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:10 AM
 
38 posts, read 55,898 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBard View Post
As much as I love living here, I don't think of it as "sophisticated" - as I said in my earlier post, I don't equivocate sophistication with education. Also, I just don't think of indie as sophisticated. There might be some sophistication among the indie arts, but its not the norm, that I have seen. Laguna Beach has a much more sophisticated art scene, and some of it very indie but most probably not. San Diego is more eclectic than sophisticated, though occasionally sophistication raises a knowing gaze from within the melee. We are a mish mash of cultures and idealogues which, much like the freeways, isn't planned but somehow, someway creates beauty and pleasure for those who tune in.
I value this perspective. You have a wonderful way with words.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:20 PM
 
Location: North Dallas via NYC and St Louis
42 posts, read 65,484 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall View Post
I would have stayed in the Midwest but I can't take the snow and cold anymore. The winters are awful and the summers are too humid
aint it the truth!
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Old 12-12-2014, 05:07 AM
 
25 posts, read 49,687 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by onechase View Post
I realize that many of you will disagree with this post, and I'm not looking really to convince you. I'm writing from the perspective of a single, early 30s educated professional.

I moved to San Diego about 19 months ago. I can't argue that the weather isn't spectacular or that there aren't plenty of very pretty views. In fact, when people ask me how I like living here, I always reply that San Diego is lovely. It really is.

But almost 2 years into living here, I am ready to leave. Culturally San Diego is a world apart even from Los Angeles and Orange County. Though there are islands of professional communities mostly in and around La Jolla, and plenty of idle rich in Del Mar and Rancho Santa Fe, most of San Diego is decidedly lower middle class. You can see it in the proliferation of Ford F150s, the very strong military element (as a % of the population, no U.S. urban area has more military connected people than San Diego-- and that's including D.C. Metro), the local obsession with dive bars, and the general lack of sophistication. You will find few people here who are interested in the world and who emphasize the values of education and hard work. They call this "laid back", which I thought meant relaxed, but really means uninterested. You will not find much in the way of cultural organizations around politics, art and culture and when you do you will find they cater to a much, much older crowd. You will meet a lot of locals who've rarely left California. For those coming from bigger cities, this will be a big culture shock.

Not to put too fine a point on it: San Diego totally lacks the sophistication of Los Angeles and other larger cities, but its prices are just as high. Take restaurants for example. I continue to be very surprised at the consistency with which San Diego restaurants offer below average food, below average service and high prices. In all sincerity, I am floored that so many San Diego restaurants can charge $30-40 for entrees-- in San Francisco and New York this means you're probably getting an excellent meal and being treated like a valued guest. With just a few exceptions, in San Diego it means average food and indifferent service. It's not that I need to be eating fancy meals all the time, but when I spend $140 for dinner for 2, I really hate feeling like I've been ripped off. I travel frequently for work-- East Coast, Chicago, Atlanta, SF, Nashville, Seattle-- and I've never experienced so many servers who feel that they are entitled to 20% gratuities or better just for showing up and restaurants that really don't give a damn whether you liked your meal or not.

Nightlife is a huge weakness if you're single. The under 25 set will find Pacific Beach and the Gaslamp to be all they hoped and dreamed, full of drunk, barely clothed hardbodies. There is about a 90% chance of witnessing a bar fight on a weekend night in either of these neighborhoods and I am not exaggerating. People here call it the "bro" element. I'm sure you can find bar fights in almost any city, but frankly I am stunned how often I see it here. There really aren't any good after work bars or lounges. Forget entirely about the self-consciously trendy places that are playing out fads that bigger cities found and digested 4-5 years ago (i.e. the speakeasy craze... hello San Diego, you're 5 years late to the party, so you can't be all that cool.) Because the human geography here is not very urban-- lots of 6 lane arterials, condominiums and strip malls-- it's not like you're meeting people on the street, either.

I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. I'm writing this maybe to help out some others who might be on the fence about coming here from the East, L.A. or Northern California. I wish I had been able to know all of this; I would not have come here in the first place.
I am 27, after living in NYC for awhile and went to college in Boston I can understand the difference between an "expensive" and "over-priced" meal. Boston is pretty "over-priced" while NYC is "expensive" and well worth it. Cipriani anyone?
Frankly, it's pretty lackluster. It's almost like San Diego is what happens when the girls from "girls gone wild" meet a state educated group at a Boston bar...

Yes, the military influence doesn't help either, but I forgive a few of my military friends although they seem to live in their own boxes..

I appreciate your opinion, I am currently in Torrance and seeking where to find that sophistication, that's out outside of a tacky glitter license plate commonly found in LA, or between the "bro" fest in San Diego without of course sacrificing the beach or the weather...

I think I will take my young gay self, hopefully find a good guy, and cozy up in Laguna Beach. Yes, that will do for me...
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
5,294 posts, read 10,146,996 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by onechase View Post
I realize that many of you will disagree with this post, and I'm not looking really to convince you. I'm writing from the perspective of a single, early 30s educated professional.

I moved to San Diego about 19 months ago. I can't argue that the weather isn't spectacular or that there aren't plenty of very pretty views. In fact, when people ask me how I like living here, I always reply that San Diego is lovely. It really is.

But almost 2 years into living here, I am ready to leave. Culturally San Diego is a world apart even from Los Angeles and Orange County. Though there are islands of professional communities mostly in and around La Jolla, and plenty of idle rich in Del Mar and Rancho Santa Fe, most of San Diego is decidedly lower middle class. You can see it in the proliferation of Ford F150s, the very strong military element (as a % of the population, no U.S. urban area has more military connected people than San Diego-- and that's including D.C. Metro), the local obsession with dive bars, and the general lack of sophistication. You will find few people here who are interested in the world and who emphasize the values of education and hard work. They call this "laid back", which I thought meant relaxed, but really means uninterested. You will not find much in the way of cultural organizations around politics, art and culture and when you do you will find they cater to a much, much older crowd. You will meet a lot of locals who've rarely left California. For those coming from bigger cities, this will be a big culture shock.

Not to put too fine a point on it: San Diego totally lacks the sophistication of Los Angeles and other larger cities, but its prices are just as high. Take restaurants for example. I continue to be very surprised at the consistency with which San Diego restaurants offer below average food, below average service and high prices. In all sincerity, I am floored that so many San Diego restaurants can charge $30-40 for entrees-- in San Francisco and New York this means you're probably getting an excellent meal and being treated like a valued guest. With just a few exceptions, in San Diego it means average food and indifferent service. It's not that I need to be eating fancy meals all the time, but when I spend $140 for dinner for 2, I really hate feeling like I've been ripped off. I travel frequently for work-- East Coast, Chicago, Atlanta, SF, Nashville, Seattle-- and I've never experienced so many servers who feel that they are entitled to 20% gratuities or better just for showing up and restaurants that really don't give a damn whether you liked your meal or not.

Nightlife is a huge weakness if you're single. The under 25 set will find Pacific Beach and the Gaslamp to be all they hoped and dreamed, full of drunk, barely clothed hardbodies. There is about a 90% chance of witnessing a bar fight on a weekend night in either of these neighborhoods and I am not exaggerating. People here call it the "bro" element. I'm sure you can find bar fights in almost any city, but frankly I am stunned how often I see it here. There really aren't any good after work bars or lounges. Forget entirely about the self-consciously trendy places that are playing out fads that bigger cities found and digested 4-5 years ago (i.e. the speakeasy craze... hello San Diego, you're 5 years late to the party, so you can't be all that cool.) Because the human geography here is not very urban-- lots of 6 lane arterials, condominiums and strip malls-- it's not like you're meeting people on the street, either.

I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. I'm writing this maybe to help out some others who might be on the fence about coming here from the East, L.A. or Northern California. I wish I had been able to know all of this; I would not have come here in the first place.
The fact that you say Orange County, an endless sprawl of bland suburbia, has more culture than San Diego, which is an actual city, is enough to discredit your "opinion".
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:17 PM
 
6,882 posts, read 8,854,388 times
Reputation: 3490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
The fact that you say Orange County, an endless sprawl of bland suburbia, has more culture than San Diego, which is an actual city, is enough to discredit your "opinion".
agree, and well written enough
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,810 posts, read 11,051,276 times
Reputation: 7995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
The fact that you say Orange County, an endless sprawl of bland suburbia, has more culture than San Diego, which is an actual city, is enough to discredit your "opinion".
Nonsense. Much of OC has a lot more sophistication than SD.

And here we go again with your generalizations based, no doubt, on the lack of "grit" in OC you mentioned earlier and your opinion that there is insufficient diversity in OC (but presumably the right cultural mix in LA).

You lived in extreme North San Diego on or near a military base with mom and dad and almost certainly did not experience any of the very large number of cultural events OC has to offer, yet you repeatedly make sweeping generalizations about other areas of Southern California with which you almost certainly have little familiarity. If you did experience OC's cultural offerings, tell me which venues or events you found disappointing and why? And while we are at it, what cultural events did you actually participate in while visiting grandparents in "LA" (the San Fernando Valley)? How about in SD proper?

And one more thing: A reminder that OC is part of metro LA whether you want to believe it or not. Many of us in OC are avid theater fans probably quite unlike the folks in the Oceanside and Camp Pendleton where you lived. In other words, in an hour (depending on traffic) we can go see a show in LA, and many of us do. Was that the case in Oceanside, that they go to the theater?

Last edited by LuvSouthOC; 12-13-2014 at 11:45 PM..
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