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Old 12-14-2014, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
5,303 posts, read 7,637,472 times
Reputation: 2136

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Oh please. You're going to debate the SF Valley as LA, but go on and say that OC is part of LA? Laughable.

It's a well-known fact that SD, as a real city and the second largest in CA, has more to do and more in the way of culture than OC. You posted a number of festivals, including ethnic parades and food events, that San Diego also has. And San Diego also has theatre, museums, etc...and San Diegans didn't have to drive all the way to LA to get to that stuff.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:11 AM
 
1,175 posts, read 1,489,891 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeUSA View Post
Interestingly enough, you paraphrased an aspect of my previous post... However, I have a difficult time preparing a proper response to your post because I have no idea what your underlying message is. The majority of what you said has no foundation in current economic trends nor gives light to the entire demographic situation of the area.

Many do live in San Diego but travel for business. Welcome to globalization, this happens everywhere in cities around the world. It's important where these people live because well, taxes. It's not the most difficult concept to grasp... Additionally, choosing to live in an area is an investment of both time and money; San Diegans spend both their time and money well.

The median age of Del Mar is 48, this isn't terribly old but you might be surprised to learn that those North County coastal towns aren't filled with solely aged and wealthy. There is a very vibrant, refreshing presence generated by the cultural implications of an action-oriented lifestyle. One of San Diego's emerging economic industries is action-lifestyle sports branding, so it's really no surprise from a socio-economic perspective.

Now, to discuss the matter of wealth in places like San Francisco and New York City. I'm not sure if you're speaking with relevance to personal wealth or general wealth. Either way, San Francisco, New York City, and San Diego are all centers of industry that breed wealth given the economic activity in their respective metropolitan areas. All of these cities have large numbers of foreigners and wealthy, out of country/state business owners whose wealth "is [not] usually from there." The ratios and proportions of said "out of city" wealth to local, indigenous wealth may differ but each city is a different animal. There are wealthy families who have lived in San Diego for generations, since the time of the Ranches and continue to do so.

There's a big difference in what I'm saying and what you're saying. You do not strike me as a local given your mindset, but it's great to see what other San Diegans think! We're all a little different and I suppose we all appreciate different things. Thank you for your contributions to this thread.

Sorry but you lost me at San Diego is in the same category as NYC & SF as far as generating wealth. San Diego isn't anywhere close to those cities. And when you think of VC, most startups in SD wind up going to Silicon Valley or San Fran searching for money. That is a huge difference. A city that generates lots of wealth means you don't need to go elsewhere to get investments. And that is pretty much the norm in San Diego.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:26 AM
 
19 posts, read 19,681 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeUSA View Post
Many do live in San Diego but travel for business. Welcome to globalization, this happens everywhere in cities around the world. It's important where these people live because well, taxes. It's not the most difficult concept to grasp... Additionally, choosing to live in an area is an investment of both time and money; San Diegans spend both their time and money well.
California in general is actually one of the most tax-burdened states in the USA, especially when it comes to income taxes.

Why do you think that so many pro golfers, tennis players and athletes in general are "from" Florida? Because there is no state income tax.

You are correct that people use tax decisions to make life decisions, such as where one lives. High taxes prevent many young professionals trying to generate and retain wealth from settling in California in the first place. It is the same onerous and heavy-handed tax burden that drives many companies out of the state and into the warm welcoming arms of states like Texas, Florida, Washington and Nevada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeUSA View Post
Either way, San Francisco, New York City, and San Diego are all centers of industry that breed wealth
I hate it break it to you, but San Diego is not a "center of industry", at least not in terms of meaning home of Corporate HQs, hotbed of venture capital and booming startup industry (SF), global financial centers (London/NY), a massive high-tech trading port (Shanghai), creative design and entertainment and exploding web/ecommerce incubator (LA), just something the city is known for on a world-wide scale.

The median salary after taxes when compared to the cost of living is very much out of line with many other major cities, and consumers' disposable income suffers as a result. This affects the restaurant scene, the business startup culture, it keeps away the very types of people who would work toward changing San Diego from a large, yet sleepy network of suburbs into a vibrant, economically strong, world-class city. Such talented individuals have many options as to where to live and multiple well-compensated job offers. Ironically, the same types of people needed to transform SD into a center of commerce, are not being drawn here in the first place.

But many of the locals simply don't want that. They prefer to stay put in the 3 bedroom house they or their family bought in the 1960s for $40,000 which is now worth $600,000, to work their job that pays enough given their house was paid off in the 1990s and they still BBQ with some of the guys they used to go to high school with, they have no incentive or pressure to change the city.

They are the "locals" who resist any outside change, while mocking those who push for San Diego to get up to speed and live up to its incredible potential, by saying "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" or "if you don't like it, leave".

So you have the local natives who don't want change, combined with the lack of a vibrant and strong economy (that could offer strong wealth generation opportunity), along with a disproportionately high cost of living, and the temptation of other cities which do offer a professional to maximize his career, all of which form the perfect storm in keeping newcomers away and maintaining SD as a second-tier city in terms of economic power.

Besides, just do a mental flyover or drive-thru of San Diego. Just where are these "centers of industry" you speak of? Is it in South Bay, Chula Vista/National City? East County (El Cajon/La Mesa/Lemon Grove)? Is it the sprawl of hotels and condominiums and strip malls in Mission Valley? Is the center of industry located in the suburbia of Scripps Ranch or Carmel Valley?

Is it in the many home furnishing stores and family owned restaurants of Mira Mesa, the tattoo parlors and bars of PB? Is it North Park, Hillcrest and South Park and its foodie/art scene that drives this commerce? Is it in the restaurants and high-priced boutiques of La Jolla or is it Downtown SD and its massive government buildings, restaurants, hotels and supersaturation of law firms? Or maybe the eclectic shops and eateries of OB that drive the intense job creation and commerce in San Diego?

Where is this "center of industry" you speak of?

I will give you that Sorrento Valley most closely approximates a tech hub, and is the home of Qualcomm. The problem is that San Diego needs 50 Qualcomms. It needs hundreds of thousands of open job positions for young professionals starting their careers which would, in turn, spawn thousands of additional spin-off companies and hundreds more thousands of additional employees for these spin-offs (the multiplier effect). Such an influx of human capital and economic vibrance, a rising tide of salaries and easing of economic malaise, will draw in tens of billions of venture dollars to the region.

Tack onto that a world-class international airport, an intelligently designed public transportation system and only then will you begin to get on the radar of those individuals who make the decision as to where their corporation should be located. You will begin to draw those very talented, driven and well-banked individuals most needed here, attracting them away from their well-compensated positions into the region of San Diego where they may begin to help transform the "local" economy into a cosmopolitan economic powerhouse. A true "center of commerce". And such individuals don't like to be "paid in sunshine" either.

For what it's worth, I love San Diego. But as much as I thoroughly enjoy living here, there are certain aspects of it which are very frustrating to say the least. It is like a kid with unlimited potential, smart, good-looking, charismatic, the world at his fingertips. But instead of giving his all or even trying, he decides to smoke pot, chill all day, work part-time and hit the parents up for cash every month. I will say many things positive about SD, but "center of commerce" is definitely not one of them.

Last edited by Joe-Sixpack; 12-14-2014 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:49 AM
 
4,915 posts, read 6,110,833 times
Reputation: 2173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
Oh please. You're going to debate the SF Valley as LA, but go on and say that OC is part of LA? Laughable.

It's a well-known fact that SD, as a real city and the second largest in CA, has more to do and more in the way of culture than OC. You posted a number of festivals, including ethnic parades and food events, that San Diego also has. And San Diego also has theatre, museums, etc...and San Diegans didn't have to drive all the way to LA to get to that stuff.
Agree with spirit here but thinking greater LA and greater SF area are larger than greater SD area. LA museums, culture are a nice complement to SDs.
Stylistically, your arguments would be strengthened by eliminating unnecessary phrases such as "it's a well-known fact", "laughable". Behold the grammar police is/are upon us.

Last edited by bloom; 12-14-2014 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Miami, The Magic City
2,249 posts, read 1,605,324 times
Reputation: 1355
+1....love it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-Sixpack View Post
California in general is actually one of the most tax-burdened states in the USA, especially when it comes to income taxes.

Why do you think that so many pro golfers, tennis players and athletes in general are "from" Florida? Because there is no state income tax.

You are correct that people use tax decisions to make life decisions, such as where one lives. High taxes prevent many young professionals trying to generate and retain wealth from settling in California in the first place. It is the same onerous and heavy-handed tax burden that drives many companies out of the state and into the warm welcoming arms of states like Texas, Florida, Washington and Nevada.




I hate it break it to you, but San Diego is not a "center of industry", at least not in terms of meaning home of Corporate HQs, hotbed of venture capital and booming startup industry (SF), global financial centers (London/NY), a massive high-tech trading port (Shanghai), creative design and entertainment and exploding web/ecommerce incubator (LA), just something the city is known for on a world-wide scale.

The median salary after taxes when compared to the cost of living is very much out of line with many other major cities, and consumers' disposable income suffers as a result. This affects the restaurant scene, the business startup culture, it keeps away the very types of people who would work toward changing San Diego from a large, yet sleepy network of suburbs into a vibrant, economically strong, world-class city. Such talented individuals have many options as to where to live and multiple well-compensated job offers. Ironically, the same types of people needed to transform SD into a center of commerce, are not being drawn here in the first place.

But many of the locals simply don't want that. They prefer to stay put in the 3 bedroom house they or their family bought in the 1960s for $40,000 which is now worth $600,000, to work their job that pays enough given their house was paid off in the 1990s and they still BBQ with some of the guys they used to go to high school with, they have no incentive or pressure to change the city.

They are the "locals" who resist any outside change, while mocking those who push for San Diego to get up to speed and live up to its incredible potential, by saying "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" or "if you don't like it, leave".

So you have the local natives who don't want change, combined with the lack of a vibrant and strong economy (that could offer strong wealth generation opportunity), along with a disproportionately high cost of living, and the temptation of other cities which do offer a professional to maximize his career, all of which form the perfect storm in keeping newcomers away and maintaining SD as a second-tier city in terms of economic power.

Besides, just do a mental flyover or drive-thru of San Diego. Just where are these "centers of industry" you speak of? Is it in South Bay, Chula Vista/National City? East County (El Cajon/La Mesa/Lemon Grove)? Is it the sprawl of hotels and condominiums and strip malls in Mission Valley? Is the center of industry located in the suburbia of Scripps Ranch or Carmel Valley?

Is it in the many home furnishing stores and family owned restaurants of Mira Mesa, the tattoo parlors and bars of PB? Is it North Park, Hillcrest and South Park and its foodie/art scene that drives this commerce? Is it in the restaurants and high-priced boutiques of La Jolla or is it Downtown SD and its massive government buildings, restaurants, hotels and supersaturation of law firms? Or maybe the eclectic shops and eateries of OB that drive the intense job creation and commerce in San Diego?

Where is this "center of industry" you speak of?

I will give you that Sorrento Valley most closely approximates a tech hub, and is the home of Qualcomm. The problem is that San Diego needs 50 Qualcomms. It needs hundreds of thousands of open job positions for young professionals starting their careers which would, in turn, spawn thousands of additional spin-off companies and hundreds more thousands of additional employees for these spin-offs (the multiplier effect). Such an influx of human capital and economic vibrance, a rising tide of salaries and easing of economic malaise, will draw in tens of billions of venture dollars to the region.

Tack onto that a world-class international airport, an intelligently designed public transportation system and only then will you begin to get on the radar of those individuals who make the decision as to where their corporation should be located. You will begin to draw those very talented, driven and well-banked individuals most needed here, attracting them away from their well-compensated positions into the region of San Diego where they may begin to help transform the "local" economy into a cosmopolitan economic powerhouse. A true "center of commerce". And such individuals don't like to be "paid in sunshine" either.

For what it's worth, I love San Diego. But as much as I thoroughly enjoy living here, there are certain aspects of it which are very frustrating to say the least. It is like a kid with unlimited potential, smart, good-looking, charismatic, the world at his fingertips. But instead of giving his all or even trying, he decides to smoke pot, chill all day, work part-time and hit the parents up for cash every month. I will say many things positive about SD, but "center of commerce" is definitely not one of them.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:01 AM
Status: "Certified Victim™ who walked away" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,111 posts, read 6,777,645 times
Reputation: 7052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
Oh please. You're going to debate the SF Valley as LA, but go on and say that OC is part of LA? Laughable.
The San Fernando Valley (Valley) has a well-known and very substantial secessionist movement and is separated from LA by both geography and culture. Other than that, yes it is part of LA county. However, the Valley resembles OC is many ways the more one approaches Ventura County.

Both areas encompass the "Greater Los Angeles Area".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
It's a well-known fact that SD, as a real city and the second largest in CA, has more to do and more in the way of culture than OC. You posted a number of festivals, including ethnic parades and food events, that San Diego also has. And San Diego also has theatre, museums, etc...and San Diegans didn't have to drive all the way to LA to get to that stuff.
Regarding "It's a well-known fact that SD...", just because a number of people in this forum believe what you state here, does not make it so. As such, this is an argumentum ad populum.

Actually, I posted much more than ethnic festivals, most notably mainly art-centric events which SD does not have. These are huge events, drawing enormous crowds, but you are unfamiliar with these cultural events, which is unsurprising. What is surprising is that you continue to express an opinion when it is obvious that you are unfamilar with these cultural offerings.

As for the need to drive "all the way up to LA" to attend a major show (something you will generally be harder pressed to find in San Diego), it is much less a problem when one is 20-40 miles away from LA.

As for the city to city comparison, OC started as a bedroom community of LA, a part of the greater LA area and thus comparing it to SD is a silly exercise. Now, however, OC is increasingly developing into its own region (like San Jose is in the Bay Area) as people commute to LA less and less, and it is most definitely now a huge job center in its own right with commuters pouring in to the area from outside. I am sorry if you do not like that fact since much of OC is squeaky clean, has far too little crime, not enough grit, and is -gasp- too Caucasian and Asian for your taste. Since you are California dreamin' out in depressing, dirty, crime-ridden and cold Philly, I hated to break the bad news to you that even some people from your beloved LA County (and quite a few from SD) commute to OC now.

As for SD, aside from the La Jolla to Carlsbad corridor including perhaps the Poway area, my Taiwanese acquaintances in OC tell me that they would never even consider living in SD county and greatly prefer OC. Why do you suppose that is?

Please answer the questions regarding what cultural offerings in SD, OC and LA you participated in or attended as I truly believe you have attended few, if any.

Last edited by LuvSouthOC; 12-14-2014 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:22 PM
 
4,915 posts, read 6,110,833 times
Reputation: 2173
More culture in SD than OC, LuvSouthOC. More culture in LA than SD.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
5,303 posts, read 7,637,472 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
The San Fernando Valley (Valley) has a well-known and very substantial secessionist movement and is separated from LA by both geography and culture. Other than that, yes it is part of LA county. However, the Valley resembles OC is many ways the more one approaches Ventura County.

Both areas encompass the "Greater Los Angeles Area".



Regarding "It's a well-known fact that SD...", just because a number of people in this forum believe what you state here, does not make it so. As such, this is an argumentum ad populum.

Actually, I posted much more than ethnic festivals, most notably mainly art-centric events which SD does not have. These are huge events, drawing enormous crowds, but you are unfamiliar with these cultural events, which is unsurprising. What is surprising is that you continue to express an opinion when it is obvious that you are unfamilar with these cultural offerings.

As for the need to drive "all the way up to LA" to attend a major show (something you will generally be harder pressed to find in San Diego), it is much less a problem when one is 20-40 miles away from LA.

As for the city to city comparison, OC started as a bedroom community of LA, a part of the greater LA area and thus comparing it to SD is a silly exercise. Now, however, OC is increasingly developing into its own region (like San Jose is in the Bay Area) as people commute to LA less and less, and it is most definitely now a huge job center in its own right with commuters pouring in to the area from outside. I am sorry if you do not like that fact since much of OC is squeaky clean, has far too little crime, not enough grit, and is -gasp- too Caucasian and Asian for your taste. Since you are California dreamin' out in depressing, dirty, crime-ridden and cold Philly, I hated to break the bad news to you that even some people from your beloved LA County (and quite a few from SD) commute to OC now.

As for SD, aside from the La Jolla to Carlsbad corridor including perhaps the Poway area, my Taiwanese acquaintances in OC tell me that they would never even consider living in SD county and greatly prefer OC. Why do you suppose that is?

Please answer the questions regarding what cultural offerings in SD, OC and LA you participated in or attended as I truly believe you have attended few, if any.
I'm not CA dreaming. Sure I miss it--mostly for the beach and weather--but I'm happy here. It's not an overpriced boring suburb like OC. Sure they have some art. But there's art in every city--including art events (of which I've been to a few) in Hillcrest. And sure, there will be some people who prefer OC over San Diego, or those who commute from SD or LA to OC. Doesn't mean that OC has more culture. It's a ludicrous statement.

As for cultural events: the Tet Festival in San Diego, various museums in Balboa Park, and as I stated before, art festivals and showcases in Hillcrest (my mom's friend is an artist).

Last edited by Hawaii4evr; 12-14-2014 at 06:50 PM..
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:02 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
4,638 posts, read 7,068,281 times
Reputation: 8477
Joe-Sixpack nails this absolutely perfectly.

I am a big defender of SD to those who dismiss it as a sleepy collection of suburbs lacking in culture, but in the greater context, the limited vibrancy and art culture that does exist for those that seek it out to enjoy will always be somewhat lacking and seemingly forever held back because of these intrinsic socioeconomic foundations and conditions of this city.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Murrieta California
2,879 posts, read 3,486,127 times
Reputation: 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
The fact that you say Orange County, an endless sprawl of bland suburbia, has more culture than San Diego, which is an actual city, is enough to discredit your "opinion".
+1
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