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My guess is around 100K for a family of four with a 2K mortgage. I like having a cushion for unexpected expenses. I don't think this number would change for me in any other state. Perhaps Texas as there are no state income taxes. Everything other than real estate is pretty much the same price than the rest of the country. So if you can deal with living in a smaller place in sand diego versus a bigger one elsewhere, its worth it. I don't waste money on luxury items. I created a spreadsheet with all my expenses and come up with this number. I may be off a few thousand but I think 100K is a good amount for a family of four.
My guess is around 100K for a family of four with a 2K mortgage. I created a spreadsheet with all my expenses and come up with this number. I may be off a few thousand but I think 100K is a good amount for a family of four.
I agree. I think for a family of 4, you have to at least be in the $100,000 area to live comfortably while at the same time planning for your future retirement.
And making the spreadsheet is so essential to plan. It's very important to include ALL categories of all ongoing expenses. Too many people take the time to make a spreadsheet but they aren't realistic and don't include many expenses with kids. Here are the things on my spreadsheet.
-Mortgage or Rent
- Property taxes if you own
-Phone (Land line and Cell phone, blackberry, etc)
- Utilities (gas, water, electricity, cable, internet, etc)
- HOA fees (if you own vs. rent)
- Maintenance and repairs (if you own a property)
- Car payments
- Car insurance
- Auto Fuel each month for each car
- Registration fees for your car each year
- Maintenance on your car to include car washes and oil changes
- Home/rental insurance for your property
- Life insurance
- Health insurance premiums
- Dental insurance premiums
- Medical/Dental expenses (what insurance won't cover)
- Prescription medications
- School expenses for kids (tuition, stuff for school, ballet classes, etc)
- Babysitter expenses
- Clothes for kids and yourself
- Toys for kids
- Dry Cleaning
- Health club / gym
- Beauty (hair salon for hair cuts, color, nails, make up, etc)
- Extracurricular activities dues/fees
- Entertainment (movies, theatre, plays, Seaworld, Zoo, concerts, sporting events, etc --- TONS of stuff to do with kids here)
- Magazine/newspaper/Ipad subscriptions
- Dining out at restaurants
- Grocery budget
- Retirement savings contributions
- Kids college fund savings contributions
- Charity/donations
- Travel / vacation expenses
- Federal/State/local income taxes
- Any revolving debt payments you might have
- Bad habit type stuff (alcohol, smoking, etc --- this doesn't apply to me but it does for many people)
- Emergency savings fund for any major health issues
- Non reimbursed office/work expenses and supplies
Not to be a jerk here, but the median household income in the United States was around $50K in 2009. The median household size is 2.6 people.
In San Diego, the median household income is $60K. The median household size is 2.7 people.
Given this, it's difficult for me to buy the "you can't raise a family here on less than $100K." Uh, yes you can. Lots of people are.
Now, you might have to drive to Disneyland instead of flying to Hawaii when you go on vacation. And that's assuming that you take a vacation at all. Staycation may have been a term that was coined in the downturn, but a lot of families were doing it long before. And you might have to buy clothes at the Salvation Army instead of going to Macy's. And you may eat out once a month instead of once a week.
But it is being done, by millions of people every day, so it clearly can be done.
Not to be a jerk here, but the median household income in the United States was around $50K in 2009. The median household size is 2.6 people.
In San Diego, the median household income is $60K. The median household size is 2.7 people.
Given this, it's difficult for me to buy the "you can't raise a family here on less than $100K." Uh, yes you can. Lots of people are.
Now, you might have to drive to Disneyland instead of flying to Hawaii when you go on vacation. And that's assuming that you take a vacation at all. Staycation may have been a term that was coined in the downturn, but a lot of families were doing it long before. And you might have to buy clothes at the Salvation Army instead of going to Macy's. And you may eat out once a month instead of once a week.
But it is being done, by millions of people every day, so it clearly can be done.
Sure. It can be done. I think each person has their own number. It depends on your profession and where you are in your career. For me, 100k is possible as a technical person or in management. If I were in some other field where the peak was 60k then I would budget myself off that and would do all the above. The key is to know exactly howbyou want to spend your money and have a spreadsheet that can help estimate expenses like earlyretirement has mentioned.
I agree. I think for a family of 4, you have to at least be in the $100,000 area to live comfortably while at the same time planning for your future retirement.
And making the spreadsheet is so essential to plan. It's very important to include ALL categories of all ongoing expenses. Too many people take the time to make a spreadsheet but they aren't realistic and don't include many expenses with kids. Here are the things on my spreadsheet.
-Mortgage or Rent
- Property taxes if you own
-Phone (Land line and Cell phone, blackberry, etc)
- Utilities (gas, water, electricity, cable, internet, etc)
- HOA fees (if you own vs. rent)
- Maintenance and repairs (if you own a property)
- Car payments
- Car insurance
- Auto Fuel each month for each car
- Registration fees for your car each year
- Maintenance on your car to include car washes and oil changes
- Home/rental insurance for your property
- Life insurance
- Health insurance premiums
- Dental insurance premiums
- Medical/Dental expenses (what insurance won't cover)
- Prescription medications
- School expenses for kids (tuition, stuff for school, ballet classes, etc)
- Babysitter expenses
- Clothes for kids and yourself
- Toys for kids
- Dry Cleaning
- Health club / gym
- Beauty (hair salon for hair cuts, color, nails, make up, etc)
- Extracurricular activities dues/fees
- Entertainment (movies, theatre, plays, Seaworld, Zoo, concerts, sporting events, etc --- TONS of stuff to do with kids here)
- Magazine/newspaper/Ipad subscriptions
- Dining out at restaurants
- Grocery budget
- Retirement savings contributions
- Kids college fund savings contributions
- Charity/donations
- Travel / vacation expenses
- Federal/State/local income taxes
- Any revolving debt payments you might have
- Bad habit type stuff (alcohol, smoking, etc --- this doesn't apply to me but it does for many people)
- Emergency savings fund for any major health issues
- Non reimbursed office/work expenses and supplies
This is pretty good. I have most of them but missed a few. Thanks.
Not to be a jerk here, but the median household income in the United States was around $50K in 2009. The median household size is 2.6 people.
In San Diego, the median household income is $60K. The median household size is 2.7 people.
Given this, it's difficult for me to buy the "you can't raise a family here on less than $100K." Uh, yes you can. Lots of people are.
Now, you might have to drive to Disneyland instead of flying to Hawaii when you go on vacation. And that's assuming that you take a vacation at all. Staycation may have been a term that was coined in the downturn, but a lot of families were doing it long before. And you might have to buy clothes at the Salvation Army instead of going to Macy's. And you may eat out once a month instead of once a week.
But it is being done, by millions of people every day, so it clearly can be done.
Tony,
I don't think you're being a jerk at all. If you can comfortably get by with 2 kids on $50,000 to $75,000 then I think that's great.
But the true reality is that many families here will struggle with those amounts.
You can't get all caught up with median household income and people "getting by". The true reality is that a VERY large % of families and individuals aren't making enough to comfortably plan for the future. They are going to have MAJOR problems in the future, especially as they get older. Pensions will become a thing of the past and those that think they can count on Social Security are deluding themselves.
If you want to get caught up on statistics, look at the high percentage of Americans that don't have any savings or don't have any retirement savings at all. The numbers are clearly shocking.
No one is saying it can't be done. I'm talking about living comfortably and providing for your family comfortably. Most parents wouldn't consider having to shop at the Salvation Army for their kids as normal.
I'm not trying to start a debate about what can and can't be done with $X per year. But I still say that $75,000 here in San Diego with 2 kids isn't anything to write home about.
When you have kids it's better to be more cautious. The biggest problem that I've seen is that most people moving here or planning to move here have the best case scenario in mind when more times than not, they don't think about or plan for the worst case scenario, which is what they should do if they are moving here with kids.
But I still say that $75,000 here in San Diego with 2 kids isn't anything to write home about.
See, here's what I think is happening. I'll bet most of us are used to living nice, comfortable upper middle class lifestyles. I grew up with that, and that's the life I'm living as an adult. And not surprisingly, I grew up with people living that kind of a lifestyle. So that's my frame of reference.
So since we're used to that lifestyle, we wonder how people who don't have enough money to live that lifestyle manage to survive, much less raise kids.
But the thing is, people are managing to do it. And God bless them for being able to do it!
It is a really nice idea to calculate your income and expenditure before moving to a place. Before moving to a place you must always make sure that your income can help you exist there.
I'm going to go ahead and hop in here. I cannot believe that people are saying you cannot raise 2 kids on $75k in San Diego. I have 3 kids, and we have been making $40k a year. Yes, you read that correctly. $40k. It would have been a higher number, had I not been staying home with the kids, but then again, my childcare costs would also be astronomical.
My husband just got a new job with a raise - to $70k. We are thrilled, and yes, we will be able to live quite comfortably on that. What, exactly, are all you people spending your money on? By the way, I'm not a hoodrat or a dirty bum. I grew up an only child in a well-educated nuclear family. My father owns a biotech company, and my mother is a college professor. I grew up in a large home on 11 acres, with horses. I am educated and have pride in myself, so please don't pity me or my lifestyle, because of our income. We do JUST FINE.
First, let me dispel some myths: you do NOT have to shop at the Salvation Army, or be a "freegan" or "dumpster diver," or what have you, to live on $75k. Are you KIDDING me? You just have to shop intelligently!
When I go grocery shopping, I start at the Grocery Outlet. They don't have a wide variety of items, nor do they have a consistent selection, but the prices are unbelievably low. Example: full sized California Pizza Kitchen frozen pizzas for $2. Pillsbury crescent rolls, 33 cents a can. Chef Michael's gourmet dog food: $2.99 for a 6 lb bag. Life cereal or Cheerios for $1.69.
After I stock up on what is available from Grocery Outlet that week, I go to Costco to buy bulk items (where I also get my gas, at a huge discount), and then whatever final items I might need, I get at Walmart. If I want specialty items, I can even go to Whole Foods! I just don't do the bulk of my shopping there. I also go to the Farmers Market for produce. All this is without clipping coupons. If you go that route, you can save even more, and you don't even have to look in newspapers, these days; you can print them off at home.
My grocery bill, for the 5 of us, is about $90 a week. We don't eat crap, either. I buy a few convenience items for busy days or for my husband to take to work for lunch (he doesn't eat out for lunch), and the rest, I make from scratch. Cooking from scratch saves a LOT! For example: tonight I made mandarin chicken, jasmine rice, and spring rolls (from scratch). It only cost me a few bucks to feed all of us, and we even have leftovers.
We don't eat out on a whim, but for a special occasion, we can plan it. I use Restaurant.com gift certificates to use toward the meal. On the regular, you can get a $25 gift certificate for $10. Twice a year, the site sells $25 gift certificates for $1. You buy them during the promotion, but they don't expire. I will spend $15, once a year, buying 15 different certificates, and we use them throughout the year, which averages to 1 or 2 meals out per month, which really is plenty. If we want to go out to the movies, we use Coca Cola rewards points (found on any cap or carton, and we get them from the recycling) to earn free gift cards to AMC theatres. We also turn in all the CRV that is left out in the recycling of our apartment complex plus what is at my husband's work (he is a college instructor). Turning in the CRV is worth an extra $60 a month, which we use for our family's entertainment budget.
Our youngest is in diapers, and I buy boxes on eBay. By using special promotions plus eBay bucks, I get them very cheaply. I recently bought a box of 276 Pampers Swaddlers for $7.16 (shipping included). Plus, whatever I buy on eBay, generates a cash back reward to use for future purchases. Using this method, I was even able to buy my daughters American Girl dolls for Christmas.
My husband commutes from North County to Mission Valley. He drives an older Prius, that gets excellent gas mileage. He commutes with someone who needs a ride share, and for this, the gentleman pays him $40 a week. His gas does not cost $40 a week, so he has no transportation expenses, really.
We don't dress poorly, nor do we shop at Salvation Army. I buy our clothes on eBay, mostly. Some are new and some are gently worn, but I never buy anything that would appear to be used. My kids wear Gap, Ralph Lauren, Hollister, Gymboree, Justice, etc. I buy my husband's work attire on eBay, and he dresses better than some doctors. He owns Gucci loafers, Ferragamo slacks, Burberry ties, and Fendi shirts (all authentic - before I stayed at home, I was a resale authenticator of luxury goods). He always looks professional. Now that he's taken a management job in La Jolla, he will look the part.
A few caveats: we don't have cable or satellite. We pay for internet, but it's a tax deduction for my husband's work. We pay $7 a month for Netflix, and we stream movies and TV through that, if we want to watch something. Coming from a former TV addict, I can assure you that it's easier than you think to save $100 a month on that. I also don't go to a salon to get my hair done (my friend does it for me), and I do my own nails. I don't smoke, and I'm not a big drinker, so I save money there. In the interest of full disclosure, I haven't saved much for retirement yet, but I'm only 26, so I have a little time, and like I said, I've been living on $40k, not $75k.
I mentioned my husband's car, but I also drive. I have a 2009 Dodge Grand Caravan. It's not a Mercedes, but it's no beater. I didn't finance it (paid for it in cash, with saved money from babysitting), so I don't have to worry about a car payment.
NOW, considering we did ALL that on $40,000, imagine what we will do on $70k. We are buying a four bedroom house, in either Oceanside or Santee, and we are going to take the kids to Disneyland, this year. We might even get TV.
Considering we lived just fine when being frugal, on $40k, with 3 kids, you CAN live on $75k. Anyone who says you cannot, is spoiled and not resourceful. You can still dress well, eat well, and live well, if you are smart about how you get things. Never pay retail!
Last edited by novabrite; 01-04-2012 at 02:47 AM..
Also, you're not taking into account all the military families here. There are TONS of them, last time I checked, and only high-ranking officers are making more than $75k. True, they get a basic allowance for housing, but even with that, it's the equivalent of making maybe $60k, for anyone who is enlisted and sergeant or below (which is a lot of them). They don't appear to be starving, to me, and many of them have kids. My best friend is a stay at home mom of one, and a military wife. They live in a nice house in Oceanside, and own a newer Suburban and a newer BMW 3 series, plus they eat out a lot, go to sporting events, etc. They're doing just fine, on less than $75k, also, and she never clips coupons or does the stuff I do, to save money.
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