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Old 06-20-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: San Diego
28,594 posts, read 26,462,643 times
Reputation: 14736

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
Conservative can mean financial or social. I consider myself a moderate, independent, financially conservative, socially liberal. This maps poorly to the definitions above and to either of the major political parties. An example of this seemingly intractable position is that I support both gun ownership and gay marriage, oppose both welfare and war spending. I believe in personal accountability as the core of our national identity but support a nationalized healthcare system if it could solve the current healthcare mess. I believe all of this at the same time and often change my mind as pragmatic circumstance demands.

When you run a business, you must be financially conservative or you will be out of business, of course unless you have an unlimited source of funds and are accountable to no-one. Apply that filter to the government and you will understand why most fiscal conservatives are dissatisfied with our governments.

The idea that liberals are universally open to change is utterly ridiculous. Go to any wealthy liberal area and try to build a room addition and you'll see how tolerant and open to change those people really are. My experience with far left liberals is that they are as stubborn and arrogant as their far-right counterparts.

Dang, in core I was going to write pretty much the same. I don't feel I fit in any of the holes they try to cram us pegs into either.

While my laundry is out there I'll throw in Anti-Union, anti-bailout and Pro-choice. That should confuse a lot.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:42 AM
 
4,588 posts, read 8,043,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Dang, in core I was going to write pretty much the same. I don't feel I fit in any of the holes they try to cram us pegs into either.
^^ This pretty much sums up not only my personal sentiment, but the point about cherry picking extreme examples when there is so much of a grey area between the two ends. That grey area (social, econmic and political views all cross pollinate.)

These days, for me, its a case by case. There is no 'one team' that I can honestly say is the one I stick to with some united voice for sense of feeling like I belong to a party.

But because its so passe these days to be x and slant y, its sounds more media driven than actual position. Its highly unlikely you will ever get the same answer from 5 citizens that claim x and slant y.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: East Fallowfield, PA
2,298 posts, read 3,728,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post
^^ This pretty much sums up not only my personal sentiment, but the point about cherry picking extreme examples when there is so much of a grey area between the two ends. That grey area (social, econmic and political views all cross pollinate.)

These days, for me, its a case by case. There is no 'one team' that I can honestly say is the one I stick to with some united voice for sense of feeling like I belong to a party.

But because its so passe these days to be x and slant y, its sounds more media driven than actual position. Its highly unlikely you will ever get the same answer from 5 citizens that claim x and slant y.
Shmoov, I understand where you're coming from. I consider myself liberal in most of my views and proud to state that fact. But in other areas, such as many fiscal policies such as balancing our spending and revenue intake I lean more towards the center. I am always disappointed when I hear the strident voices yelling at each other and not really listening to each other.

My husband is way more liberal than myself and he always comments on the fact that we have so many close friends that are fairly conservative in their views. My best friend that I've known since my Navy days, she actually introduced me to my husband is pretty conservative in her fiscal views and her brother is a very conservative U.S. Congressman from Georgia but we love each other like sisters. I stayed at her home when I first arrived in Texas and again just before we left. We vacation together and she and her husband will be out here in San Diego for my birthday. Our grown children get together as well.

I have another close friend again very conservative and we have vacationed together, stayed at each other's homes, supported each other during really tough times, both financially and emotionally. I can't imagine tossing any of the friends aside because of their political views and I'm very confident in saying I know they feel the same towards me.

I wish real conversations could be had these days. I can't listen to News much these days because of the ignorance displayed by the talking head "Entertainers" passing themselves off as journalist.

As I said earlier, I would probably label myself Liberal, but compared to many others, I would probably fall into the "Blue Dog" category due to some of my fiscal views.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego
28,594 posts, read 26,462,643 times
Reputation: 14736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingAloha View Post
Shmoov, I understand where you're coming from. I consider myself liberal in most of my views and proud to state that fact. But in other areas, such as many fiscal policies such as balancing our spending and revenue intake I lean more towards the center. I am always disappointed when I hear the strident voices yelling at each other and not really listening to each other.

My husband is way more liberal than myself and he always comments on the fact that we have so many close friends that are fairly conservative in their views. My best friend that I've known since my Navy days, she actually introduced me to my husband is pretty conservative in her fiscal views and her brother is a very conservative U.S. Congressman from Georgia but we love each other like sisters. I stayed at her home when I first arrived in Texas and again just before we left. We vacation together and she and her husband will be out here in San Diego for my birthday. Our grown children get together as well.

I have another close friend again very conservative and we have vacationed together, stayed at each other's homes, supported each other during really tough times, both financially and emotionally. I can't imagine tossing any of the friends aside because of their political views and I'm very confident in saying I know they feel the same towards me.

I wish real conversations could be had these days. I can't listen to News much these days because of the ignorance displayed by the talking head "Entertainers" passing themselves off as journalist.

As I said earlier, I would probably label myself Liberal, but compared to many others, I would probably fall into the "Blue Dog" category due to some of my fiscal views.
There was some show on this weekend on a channel I usually always thought of as a news channel. I was working out in the garage and just wanted some background noise. The topics were immigration debate and something else but I never got that far. Some guy dressed up as important was pretty much just screaming about Republicans and how "WE" have to do anything we can to ensure Obama got re-elected. Where the hell was the debate in that? There was no one from the right or an independent being interviewed just this loon. Why would they try and pass off this rubbish as a debate? Screaming into a camera is not a debate.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Rolando, San Diego CA 92115
7,990 posts, read 24,502,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post

While my laundry is out there I'll throw in Anti-Union, anti-bailout and Pro-choice. That should confuse a lot.
To me it's mostly just common sense on a case-by-case basis. But that is because we reject ideologies which is what essentially this big division is all about.

It's unfortunate that so many people are willing to let someone else's vision of the world create their own opinions, but that is just the way it goes, I guess.

I feel this country has a lot of baggage from the 60's and boomer generation that needs to get worked out, and it's coming to a head because those are the people in control now. This conflict between the hippie boomer ethos of a utopian society vs the winner-take-all capitalists has to get moderated at some point, it's preventing anything commonsense from getting done.

Last edited by Sassberto; 06-20-2012 at 01:09 PM..
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:30 AM
 
1,333 posts, read 1,767,252 times
Reputation: 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyinsd View Post
If you think about what conservative means -- not the perverted by political pundits version but the dictionary version -- it's no surprise that places which are less diverse and where things don't change much lean that way. Think about it. Conservative means you want things to stay the way they are. The problem is, that's just not going to happen. The only constant in the universe is change. So it's kind of like trying to bail the Titanic out with a bucket. Oh, sure, you may FEEL like you're preventing things from changing, and you may actually slow the rate of change down. But sooner or later, it's going to happen.

Liberal means that you're open to and favor change. Naturally, in places that are very diverse and have lots of things going on, you're going to have more change so you're going to be open to it. It's part of what you're used to. You like things that way and you embrace it.

This is why you see a lot of rural areas skewing very conservative and urban areas skewing liberal. The people who are open to change in rural areas often leave, because they want to live in a place where they see change. Those who want to keep things the way they are stay put.
This is very true and I completely agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
Conservative can mean financial or social. I consider myself a moderate, independent, financially conservative, socially liberal. This maps poorly to the definitions above and to either of the major political parties. An example of this seemingly intractable position is that I support both gun ownership and gay marriage, oppose both welfare and war spending. I believe in personal accountability as the core of our national identity but support a nationalized healthcare system if it could solve the current healthcare mess. I believe all of this at the same time and often change my mind as pragmatic circumstance demands.

When you run a business, you must be financially conservative or you will be out of business, of course unless you have an unlimited source of funds and are accountable to no-one. Apply that filter to the government and you will understand why most fiscal conservatives are dissatisfied with our governments.
I agree with you in that everyone has to be fiscally conservative in the sense that money doesn't grow on trees and we need to spend wisely and save and cut back where it is needed. I don't agree with unregulated capitalism though because then you have large corps monopolizing and what not. I'm not an environmental nut but I do think it's good to have clean water and clean air, which I don't think a corporation cares about since their main goal is profit. I support welfare for people who really need it. I have seen people who were doing ok financially suddenly fall and need a safety net. I agree with nationalized health care because our current system is falling apart and anyone who thinks it's ok how it is, is clearly blind. I am on the fence about Unions. I think that some unions are needed like Police and Fire and yes, school unions. I don't think it is right to make everything private especially when it comes to people's well being (health, education, safety).


Republicans make it a point to show that they're in favor of the wealthy and that those on the lowest level of means don't deserve what little they do have.This contradicts my "help those in need" mentality. I don't mind taxes -I think they're needed, or at the least, beneficial to the country overall- and I believe that many people do not understand unions- just as they don't understand a lot of things.

I support owning any gun you want but I do not agree with open carry anywhere laws. I don't think you need a gun to go to Wal Mart. but own whatever guns you want, just don't bring it to the store or school or any place like that. oh and I do not like the Arizona immigration law. As far as every other thing goes (sex, gays, religion, race, wars, etc), I'm liberal.

I will admit I favor Democrats a little more than Republicans because all the Republicans in the spot light now are religious zealots who don't seem to really care about minorities or anyone but themselves. Maybe if there was a level headed Republican I would vote for them, but so far that hasn't happened. I agree with Ron Paul on a lot of stuff but again, not this no regulation stuff. I guess I am a centrist who leans more to the left than right.

Last edited by bradleyyo; 06-21-2012 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Ocean Beach, San Diego
1,470 posts, read 2,659,995 times
Reputation: 584
Saturday we went to a street fair in Ocean Beach and they had a booth to register to vote Republican. There was a 7 foot Reagan cutout and the Romney was probably 9 ft tall (well at least they were to scale). We found ourselves stopping near by to observe, and let me tell you the folks manning the booth might has well have pooped on the sidewalk because people made stinky faces and walked around the table as if they would catch the plague.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:16 AM
 
4,588 posts, read 8,043,110 times
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Just heard this on the radio this morning and seems on point based on the general opinions here. Based on this and voter turnout, DeMaio should be the clear winner in November.

Interstate 8 Divide May Lead To San Diego Political Gridlock | KPBS Mobile
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:21 AM
 
Location: San Diego
28,594 posts, read 26,462,643 times
Reputation: 14736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelandgal View Post
Saturday we went to a street fair in Ocean Beach and they had a booth to register to vote Republican. There was a 7 foot Reagan cutout and the Romney was probably 9 ft tall (well at least they were to scale). We found ourselves stopping near by to observe, and let me tell you the folks manning the booth might has well have pooped on the sidewalk because people made stinky faces and walked around the table as if they would catch the plague.
OB Republicans.... fail
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:29 AM
 
4,588 posts, read 8,043,110 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelandgal View Post
Saturday we went to a street fair in Ocean Beach and they had a booth to register to vote Republican. There was a 7 foot Reagan cutout and the Romney was probably 9 ft tall (well at least they were to scale). We found ourselves stopping near by to observe, and let me tell you the folks manning the booth might has well have pooped on the sidewalk because people made stinky faces and walked around the table as if they would catch the plague.
No other neighborhood quite personifies Republican values than OB

Dont feed the bums
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