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I can't stand it when people complain about their property taxes. Can't afford to pay an extra 500 bucks every 10 years because then you couldn't afford the gas guzzling pick up, the 3 quads, the boat and the Harley? Spoiled brats.
And then, of course, these fools will whine about how they have to cough up tens of thousands of dollars a year to put their kids into private school.
Uh, did you ever think that property taxes fund schools, and that if everyone paid an extra $100 or so a year, you might have to send those kids to private school?
And then, of course, these fools will whine about how they have to cough up tens of thousands of dollars a year to put their kids into private school.
Uh, did you ever think that property taxes fund schools, and that if everyone paid an extra $100 or so a year, you might have to send those kids to private school?
Penny wise, pound foolish.
Exactly, live within your means.
I do see the need for balance, and I think our ideal government works best with balance. We can't have liberals running around changing everything at once and we also can't be sitting still for 30 years waiting for 100% consensus that a change is needed. It's a dysfunctional dynamic that feeds on itself. Liberals want changes, so conservatives dig in and changes aren't made, time passes so liberals want more changes, so conservatives dig in deeper, etc.
I'm a pragmatic liberal. I'm in favor of coming up with realistic solutions that go towards the greater benefit of everyone. As opposed to the conservative mindset of taking all you can for yourself and screwing over everyone else.
Seriously, screw conservatives. I don't want anyone telling me who I can have sex with, who I can marry, what I can put into my body, what religion I have to be, or what values and morals I have to have or any of that bull. I don't want to be like you so freaking blow me! I don't want to walk in lockstep and submit my will to your outdated values and oppressive so called morals.
And all the conservatives in America claim to be for "less government" lolz, what a joke. Too bad we don't have a true liberal/progressive party since the Democrats are just center-right corporate whores and the Libertarians are too.
Conservatives pretty much belong in a zoo. I mean, isn't it funny how they ALWAYS end up on the wrong side of history? Who opposed the abolition of slavery? Conservatives. Who opposed women's right? Conservatives? Who opposed minority rights? Conservatives. Who opposed the abolition of segregation? Conservatives. Who opposed the American Revolution? Conservatives. And the list goes on and on.
Now let's take a look at the issues of today. Who opposes legalization? Conservatives. Who opposes gay marriage? Conservatives. Who opposes protecting the environment? Conservatives. Who opposes universal healthcare? Conservatives.
So what are conservatives in favor of? Oh yeah, war, tax cuts for the rich, an unregulated form of capitalism that allows the megacorps to screw us over as much as they want, legislating morality, regulating what you can and can't do with your own body, discrimination against minorities and sending more people to prison over BS reasons.
Basically it boils down to:
Liberal: Open minded and cares about their fellow man. Wants to make the world a better place.
Conservative: Close minded and only cares about a select few, most likely those of the same skin color and religion. Wants to make the world a better place for themselves and SCREW everybody else.
Oh and another thing I freaking hate about conservatives is their crap in the media. Listening to Rush Limbaugh's racist, bigoted BS makes me want to strap pork onto his fat arse and throw him into a pit of tigers. The same goes for all the other big names like Hannity, O'Reily and all their stupid clones. The hate, fear-mongering, racism, bigotry, and misinformation they spew on a daily basis is just disgusting. Also the way they incessantly defend the wealthy elite such as the oil companies and the military industrial complex is pure crap.
And before anyone says "Well Rush and Hannity don't represent all conservatives.", I'll go ahead and say yeah, they kinda do. At least a pretty big chunk of them. It's sure as hell not liberals who listen to them and are making them rich. Oh and SCREW Faux News too.
bradleyyo, you make some great points but at the same time a bit obvious by picking on extremes. I would like to hear more of an argument about how convoluted the middle is, because it is. I also dont think many folks would disagree with you here in San Diego.
Unless you have lived in the middle of country where the lifestyle is completely different, you might see their point of view. Being "liberal" or how ever you want to call it = tolerance. So you are contradicting yourself when you dont respect anothers point of view, regardless of how limited it may seem.
In more populated cities and metros, learning to live with more people is a reality, thus policy should be leaning that way (liberal).
But for someone that have had one way of life (farmers, cowboys, slaughterhouses etc) they absolutely will see it differently. Change sucks for them because they are making the life they are making without much need to go 50/50 with the person next to them. But this all domestic policy and I am sure you know, its not always about that.
I dont think city folk liberals want everything to be peace, love and happiness. Nor do I think the conservative farmer wants to go to war.
I am pretty confident that most American dont either based on how they vote and are happy with a fair balance. Does it mean it will ALWAYS be balanced? No, because the world doesnt work that way.
However, there are many things that are happening in regards to National Security in this country that we will never know about until it happens and our relationships with other nations require are always influx. Domestic policy is just as important as foreign policy.
It is just about the US anymore when other threats economically and politically are always moving. So with that being said, its totally ok at least IMHO to float in the middle, because at any given time, whatever is happening, things can change pretty quickly.
IMHO, East County needs to push a bit more liberal because there are some crabby a-holes that **** and moan about the changes that are happening in places El Cajon or La Mesa. I still hear old timers whine about how Lemon Grove 'used to be' country. Yeah well guess what Rip van Winkle? lol
Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 06-19-2012 at 11:59 AM..
Unless you have lived in the middle of country where the lifestyle is completely different, you might see their point of view. Being "liberal" or how ever you want to call it = tolerance. So you are contradicting yourself when you dont respect anothers point of view, regardless of how limited it may seem.
In more populated cities and metros, learning to live with more people is a reality, thus policy should be leaning that way (liberal).
But for someone that have had one way of life (farmers, cowboys, slaughterhouses etc) they absolutely will see it differently. Change sucks for them because they are making the life they are making without much need to go 50/50 with the person next to them. But this all domestic policy and I am sure you know, its not always about that.
IMHO, East County needs to push a bit more liberal because there are some crabby a-holes that **** and moan about the changes that are happening in places El Cajon or La Mesa. I still hear old timers whine about how Lemon Grove 'used to be' country. Yeah well guess what Rip van Winkle? lol
I know my little rant sounded a bit close minded but I get so annoyed with politics. I have vacationed in the middle of the country (Kansas and Texas) and yes it is really different. They haven't caught up with the times. It still feels like the 50's or something. I have a few friends who are conservative and while we disagree on a lot of stuff, we still try to understand each other's beliefs. Some of them identify as conservative but are actually closer to Libertarian than someone like George Bush or Sarah Palin. But I care about the poor so I see no reason to vote Republican personally. I know a few people who work with ranch animals and on farms and identify themselves as liberal. The city lifestyle is something I crave. It's just my personality. I just love the diversity of cultures, religions, entertainment, and scenery. I also feel anonymous when I am in a place like LA. I don't feel like everyone is going to say hello to me or whatever like you would feel in a small town. Maybe when I retire and am old and running out of steam, a small town might suit me.
Yes, I completely agree with your assessment that East County needs to be a little to the left. I hear people complain about the Chaldean population that has grown rapidly in El Cajon and Rancho San Diego. I believe it is the second most populated middle eastern city in America behind Detroit. I think that when it comes to things like demographics, changes are inevitable. The region is slowly diversifying and people just need to adapt. Complaining and moaning does nothing. Don't like it? then move somewhere else. I have met a few Chaldeans and they are friendly and really smart. I met this one guy who had just moved to San Diego from Iraq and he wanted to study engineering and start a family here. To me, It shouldn't matter what race or religion you are, but to some people it does matter and it is sad.
I know my little rant sounded a bit close minded but I get so annoyed with politics. I have vacationed in the middle of the country (Kansas and Texas) and yes it is really different. They haven't caught up with the times. It still feels like the 50's or something. I have a few friends who are conservative and while we disagree on a lot of stuff, we still try to understand each other's beliefs. Some of them identify as conservative but are actually closer to Libertarian than someone like George Bush or Sarah Palin. But I care about the poor so I see no reason to vote Republican personally. I know a few people who work with ranch animals and on farms and identify themselves as liberal. The city lifestyle is something I crave. It's just my personality. I just love the diversity of cultures, religions, entertainment, and scenery. I also feel anonymous when I am in a place like LA. I don't feel like everyone is going to say hello to me or whatever like you would feel in a small town. Maybe when I retire and am old and running out of steam, a small town might suit me.
Yes, I completely agree with your assessment that East County needs to be a little to the left. I hear people complain about the Chaldean population that has grown rapidly in El Cajon and Rancho San Diego. I believe it is the second most populated middle eastern city in America behind Detroit. I think that when it comes to things like demographics, changes are inevitable. The region is slowly diversifying and people just need to adapt. Complaining and moaning does nothing. Don't like it? then move somewhere else. I have met a few Chaldeans and they are friendly and really smart. I met this one guy who had just moved to San Diego from Iraq and he wanted to study engineering and start a family here. To me, It shouldn't matter what race or religion you are, but to some people it does matter and it is sad.
Yeah this is all true. When I was in my 20s I traveled EVERYWHERE and grew up in a great city so I know exactly where you are coming from.
I dont travel as far or as long as I used to but still love traveling. The difference between business world traveling and leisure are so different for me. When we decided to buy a house, all those experiences really brought us to this somewhat 'land that time forgot' in Lemon Grove.
I know you probably see this coming from La Mesa. There is this sort of stagnant, shrug the shoulders mentality from the old skoolers. I actually blame them for letting their city fall apart, for not standing up when decisions were being made.
Now, people like myself are having to move into these areas and basically rebuild it into something new and create awareness again and sort of reimagine how things are done. So far the results have been stellar, but there is a TON of work to do and its not easy.
So when it comes to conservative values and liberal values, I would say at the grassroots level of politics it can be a great thing when folks get together and come up with solutions together and the actual position is irrelevant.
When I see the negativity on the little news I do watch, its appalling, but its about the game and how to win. When politicians win its usually when people dont care or are asleep at the wheel and stagnant.
No question, we definitely need younger people in politics to give that freshness in San Diego. This is why I thought it was great that Fletcher ran and DeMaio, even though I dont necessarily agree with their positions, they are part of a newer generation. I just hope that people start to get inspired about govt again in a positive way. Because right now it seems pretty dismal.
Yeah this is all true. When I was in my 20s I traveled EVERYWHERE and grew up in a great city so I know exactly where you are coming from.
I dont travel as far or as long as I used to but still love traveling. The difference between business world traveling and leisure are so different for me. When we decided to buy a house, all those experiences really brought us to this somewhat 'land that time forgot' in Lemon Grove.
I know you probably see this coming from La Mesa. There is this sort of stagnant, shrug the shoulders mentality from the old skoolers. I actually blame them for letting their city fall apart, for not standing up when decisions were being made.
Now, people like myself are having to move into these areas and basically rebuild it into something new and create awareness again and sort of reimagine how things are done. So far the results have been stellar, but there is a TON of work to do and its not easy.
So when it comes to conservative values and liberal values, I would say at the grassroots level of politics it can be a great thing when folks get together and come up with solutions together and the actual position is irrelevant.
When I see the negativity on the little news I do watch, its appalling, but its about the game and how to win. When politicians win its usually when people dont care or are asleep at the wheel and stagnant.
No question, we definitely need younger people in politics to give that freshness in San Diego. This is why I thought it was great that Fletcher ran and DeMaio, even though I dont necessarily agree with their positions, they are part of a newer generation. I just hope that people start to get inspired about govt again in a positive way. Because right now it seems pretty dismal.
The amount of legal age people that could vote, but don't is pathetic.
If you think about what conservative means -- not the perverted by political pundits version but the dictionary version -- it's no surprise that places which are less diverse and where things don't change much lean that way. Think about it. Conservative means you want things to stay the way they are. The problem is, that's just not going to happen. The only constant in the universe is change. So it's kind of like trying to bail the Titanic out with a bucket. Oh, sure, you may FEEL like you're preventing things from changing, and you may actually slow the rate of change down. But sooner or later, it's going to happen.
Liberal means that you're open to and favor change. Naturally, in places that are very diverse and have lots of things going on, you're going to have more change so you're going to be open to it. It's part of what you're used to. You like things that way and you embrace it.
This is why you see a lot of rural areas skewing very conservative and urban areas skewing liberal. The people who are open to change in rural areas often leave, because they want to live in a place where they see change. Those who want to keep things the way they are stay put.
Conservative can mean financial or social. I consider myself a moderate, independent, financially conservative, socially liberal. This maps poorly to the definitions above and to either of the major political parties. An example of this seemingly intractable position is that I support both gun ownership and gay marriage, oppose both welfare and war spending. I believe in personal accountability as the core of our national identity but support a nationalized healthcare system if it could solve the current healthcare mess. I believe all of this at the same time and often change my mind as pragmatic circumstance demands.
When you run a business, you must be financially conservative or you will be out of business, of course unless you have an unlimited source of funds and are accountable to no-one. Apply that filter to the government and you will understand why most fiscal conservatives are dissatisfied with our governments.
The idea that liberals are universally open to change is utterly ridiculous. Go to any wealthy liberal area and try to build a room addition and you'll see how tolerant and open to change those people really are. My experience with far left liberals is that they are as stubborn and arrogant as their far-right counterparts.
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