HOA fees : $200-300 for a 1BR?! (San Diego: hotel, utilities, roofing)

[Wry_Martini]

Those seem reasonable to me -- considering I haven't seen a copy of the HOA's budget.

I'd be curious to know how much of the HOA dues are contributions to the reserves -- that's one place you don't want to skimp, unless you want to be facing a huge assessment several years in the future, when the first major maintenance is due.

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by max.b

The way I see it, maintaining a 1BR apartment should cost about 1/3 of what maintaining a single-family house would cost -- there's less roof, less lawn, plumbing, etc.

Would it be normal for the maintenance of a single-family house, or rather of its non-private areas, to average $9,000 per year, or $180,000 over 20 years? I seriously doubt it.

Gym and pool are small potatoes. You can get a real gym membership for $20 a month.

There are people who argue that HOAs get corrupted by the management companies, and that's why the fees are so high.

Is there any truth to that?

I doubt it. The management company is just another contractor, to the HOA. It's the HOA board and how hard they work to keep costs down that affects the monthly fee. And HOA board members are typically volunteer positions so if all the HOA board members are comfortable economically, you will be less likely to see cost savings. If you're in an HOA and want lower fees, the solution is to join the board so you'll have some say-so in the matter, and then find out where the money is going and work to lower the costs.

[earlyretirement]

Originally Posted by oddstray

I doubt it. The management company is just another contractor, to the HOA. It's the HOA board and how hard they work to keep costs down that affects the monthly fee. And HOA board members are typically volunteer positions so if all the HOA board members are comfortable economically, you will be less likely to see cost savings. If you're in an HOA and want lower fees, the solution is to join the board so you'll have some say-so in the matter, and then find out where the money is going and work to lower the costs.

Exactly. What I found is many people complain their HOA fees but they don't even lift a finger or spend one minute trying to do any due diligence or spend time going to meetings, or getting involved.

Yes, the HOA Board Members are on a volunteer basis. I've done that before. Some are disastrous as some there is constant bickering and fighting. Others are easier to deal with as the people are all intelligent, use common sense and civil with one another.

Here in California, HOA's seem to be more transparent than other places I've lived. Here you can get a full breakdown on what was spent in the past year.

Keep in mind they only give general categories so you'd have to due a bit of due diligence if you didn't trust it to find out exactly where it went.

For example, where I live, here are a few of the categories that were spent last year and the amounts spent:


Water for general areas: $364,631

Landscape maintenance and supplies: $1,048,532

Security guard services: $754,408

Fence/gate maintenance and repairs: $95,108


There are many many others but you get my point. At least here you have a breakdown of each category with the means to investigate further if you wanted to.

And not all HOA administrators are bad. For example, I've been VERY pleasantly surprised with mine. My HOA fees have actually gone DOWN two years in a row. I own several properties and I've never seen that before.

[tonyinsd]

I get audited copies of the HOA budget for both the property in DC and the property here.

The one in DC is older, so there are more associated repair costs. And utilities are covered by the fees, too, including basic cable. A lot of the fees go to the reserve fund. You can either pay as you go along for things that will require repair even 10-15 years, or you can do a special assessment. I'd much rather pay a little to build reserves than to have a big bill due all of the sudden.

[LaVieQ]

Originally Posted by max.b

The way I see it, maintaining a 1BR apartment should cost about 1/3 of what maintaining a single-family house would cost -- there's less roof, less lawn, plumbing, etc.

Remember that in a condo complex the roof is at a height which require more sophisticated (& costlier) equipment to maintain, pipes & vents are not conveniently accessible, landscaping cannot be done by occupants of the unit (need a contractor), there are additional equipments like elevators (and electricity to run them) and so on. In other words, the sweat equity that goes into a house is often missing in a condo complex and is replaced with HOA $$$. (The problem with a breakdown in a condo is that it has to be fixed pronto, costing a pretty penny, as the problem can affect several households, not just one, wherein one can use a friend's house until the problem is fixed, if necessary in diy mode.) Then there are non-maintenance items such as insurance, security, etc. which add up, not to mention the "reserve fund" to be built up for later, as the building ages.

In effect, the idea is that in a condo you pay the monthly fees in return for the time freed up from lawn mowing, painting, cleaning the outside, etc. and spend it lounging poolside or on your patio up in the sky, overlooking the pacific blue while indulging in your favorite book, drink, conversation, daydream, etc.

10 years ago, I owned a 2BR unit in a brand new, smallish (six unit) and modern condo complex in Seattle. Nothing fancy - no gym or swimming pool, just one elevator, no security.... Needless to say, all the owners of the units were in the HOA. We tried to keep the monthly fees as low as possible, even to the extent that one of the owners, who liked gardening, generously volunteered to do the landscaping and cleaning around the building - we saved a couple of hundred $s/month with a contractor. Still, monthly fees for my 2 BR unit worked out to $200+.

The bigger and more luxurious the complex, the higher these numbers and more difficult to decode why that is so. One of the condos I looked at in SD had a wine tasting room, a concierge in the basement to greet you when you drove in, a home theater, a pool on the roof, etcetera. Needless to say condo fees for a 1-BR unit in that complex approached the level of monthly rental for an apartment in the neighborhood. If that's the level of service one wants, and, one has the money for it, sure, more power to 'em. However, it's a tad too profligate for my tastes.:-)

While $300 for a 1 BR might seem a bit on the high side, as others have pointed out, it really depends on what's behind that number. The best way to find that out, (again, as others have pointed out) is to read the audited HOA financials, or, better still, join the HOA so you know what's being done to warrant such expenses.

[tonyinsd]

I have here the audited statement for the HOA here. There are 263 units in the complex. Here are the numbers

Utilities: $380,400
Landscape maintenance : $24,300
Pool/spa maintenance : $7,500
Common area maintenance: $545,280
Administration: $211,260
Reserve funding: $210,000

Total: $1,378,740

That works out to $430 per unit per month. They have a sliding scale depending on how large of a unit you own, and the fees vary from $401 to $483.

I don't find these unreasonable at all.

[max.b]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

They have a sliding scale depending on how large of a unit you own, and the fees vary from $401 to $483.

What's the average unit size?

[max.b]

Also, what's included in the "utilities"?

[Tchud Diego]

Well, I pay $355 a month for a 2 bed, 2 bath condo with over 900 sq. feet. The property has two pools, jacuzzis, tennis courts, several small community laundry centers, new barbecue pits, a clubhouse with banquet hall and gym. It also includes covered parking, but that is usually a given. Trash and sewer disposal, roof and property maintenance, water, landscaping and security are all part of the deal. I can't complain about that.

I check out the minutes from the meetings online and they detail the budget. Usually they base the fees on future projects to tackle, and already existing contracts to renew. That's probably about it.

[tonyinsd]

Units here range from 700 to 1500 square feet. Utilities include water for all the units, electricity for the common areas, and gas. We pay the electric bill for the unit itself.