Employment : Which are you?

[Pedro2000]

I don't know what you'd consider me. I do have a FT job these days with benefits and all. I have another contracting job that gets me extra work every few months. That's on w2. But it only happens If I have time and can do it. You really can't be in multiple places at once, so that goes into consideration.

I'm self-employed in a sense as well, but that's been small time side jobs lately. And that could be for my own company(my corporation), it could be as a 1099 subcontractor or it could be on some short term w2 project where they won't allow c2c or 1099.

I own my own business, but that's unrelated to what I do for a living and it loses more money than makes at this point. I also work on side projects that are semi-related to what I do, but they don't pay more than $1K a month. I write articles at times, was writing a book and got an advance for it, but just don't have the time to finish that. I have another business that is more startup, offshore workers, but it's in the infancy mode and I don't have time to really concentrate even 50 percent on that.

Plus I make most of my decisions based off of what it'll mean to my children. I don't take projects that require me to travel all the time anymore. And sometimes that Could mean missing out on a lot of money. But that's my decision. I work virtual more often than not, but I also am divorced, and have my children most of the time. So it means waking up at 6am and working, taking care of young children, taking meetings, working some more, taking care of young children, and then finally eating, putting them to bed, working out at home, and then back to working till like 3am most days. I have been told I'm going to burn out and probably will, but it is what needs to be done.

[lrmsd]

Originally Posted by TypoGlyco

You might know the name Robert Reich.

He was Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton. Times were different then. Booming economy, healthy employment rates etc. This is the 1990s : pre-9/11, no wars, the Internet in its infancy.

Anywho,

I think amongst all the blathering pundits out there, he is the least likely to blather and deals more in level-headed, dispassionate reason. He's a regular/ syndicated contributor to many websites and I just got to reading his latest post:

Why There's No Outcry | Robert Reich

Which got me thinking, regarding our employment situations:

You are either:

• Unemployed
• Underemployed
• Employed (but scared of losing your job)

- to the Employed amongst us- how are you feeling right now? Are you in fact, anxiety ridden at the prospect of losing your job?

Just curious.

What about self employed? That's a 4th category....

[lrmsd]

Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd

TypoGlyco, interesting question. Not sure how its San Diego relevant (perhaps employment forums?)

But to entertain the question, it would appear those 3 categories are accurate.

Yes Robert Reich was there during the boom years. My father who is near 70 (and others in the baby boomer generation) greatly benefited from that era. Productivity was soaring, 401ks were becoming an incredibly popular investment intrument among large firms, tech was really hitting its false stride via web companies etc. It was the post 80s upswing helped by a new an exciting frontier in the technology sector.

Naturally as that generation of workers is phasing out or have already, we are experiencing a lull, at least compared to those most productive years. I do think we will hit a stride again, but clearly in a different way.

I work in tech and helped start a company, sold it and now consult for them. I have had to hire, fire and everything in between. But I do work in a results driven industry for the most part. Cost cutting from the top down is always a major concern from our clients and the utmost levels of efficiency.
But this is the pace of the industry, not an established industry that has very repetitive cycles.

With that being said, I am always fearful of not necessarily my unemployment with the company I work with, but getting to do what I do best. I am thankful that I am afforded the level of freedom that I have but never naive enough to think, even if I perform and bring in huge profit margins and client satisfaction, I am not expendable if there is a change in the company, industry or freezing of any decisions based on global financial fear.

We are in a new era of self employment in my opinion. Just being status quo, filling in a cube farm and thinking you have job security because the qualifications fit is probably as good as a decade. I have seen engineers in my field in cellular get complacent, because the company allows it. The ones that do move up, 'get it' and see beyond the role they are given. But that is more company culture than anything else.

But I dont think being fearful of losing a job as necessarily a negative. Obviously the net result to that individual is from a 'paying the bills' standpoint, but from a positive outlook, can be a motivator for learning how to set yourself from the pack and be an industry pace setter.

I can tell you that the most successful people dont even thnk about their jobs necessarily, they think about getting things done. They are usually either picked up by competitors or go on their own. I cant speak for other industries, just cellular.

I think so, too. In fact, just mentioned that category in my reply to this thread. I do not, however, think everyone is cut out for it....I do think the younger generation [twenty somethings or milleneals or whatever...] are naturally geared towards this, in part b/c they haven't been steeped in a culture or society of only corporate, in part due to technology and options thereof, and in part out of necessity=no life long career jobs readily available, plus different career interests among different demographics. Time will tell if the trend continues....It seems inevitable that self-employment/entrepreneurial trends will continue, but then again the rise in low paying, minimum wage service jobs seems poised to rise, too. Perhaps those will be the two major growth areas. I don't think other sectors of employment will disappear overnight-I think that kind of chicken little thinking is extreme-but obviously the impact of decreasing opportunities has been felt by many of us.

[Pedro2000]

Originally Posted by lrmsd

I think so, too. In fact, just mentioned that category in my reply to this thread. I do not, however, think everyone is cut out for it....I do think the younger generation [twenty somethings or milleneals or whatever...] are naturally geared towards this, in part b/c they haven't been steeped in a culture or society of only corporate, in part due to technology and options thereof, and in part out of necessity=no life long career jobs readily available, plus different career interests among different demographics. Time will tell if the trend continues....It seems inevitable that self-employment/entrepreneurial trends will continue, but then again the rise in low paying, minimum wage service jobs seems poised to rise, too. Perhaps those will be the two major growth areas. I don't think other sectors of employment will disappear overnight-I think that kind of chicken little thinking is extreme-but obviously the impact of decreasing opportunities has been felt by many of us.

The biggest challenge for self-employment or really small businesses is that it's really just your paycheck without all the benefits. So you spend a lot of your time doing business related work. Maybe you hire an accountant and lawyer, but that's only if you make enough money to do so. You also don't wind up with paid holidays or vacations. Years ago you could bump up hourly rates or project rates to compensate for this, but in a lot of industries, not just technology, you're competing with visa workers who are cheaper or offshore workers who are even cheaper.

In one sense it's freedom, in another it's not because many times, you wind up working for one client or two who you develop a relationship with and win many bids with. It also means you are almost like an employee without being an employee. And at certain companies there is a definite separation for various reasons.

Corporations love it because you can be a contractor for 6 months, no benefits, no days off, hell no tax worries and so on. As a business person you get more tax breaks, but if you're more like an independent contractor and you don't own your own home, you aren't getting as many as you would think.

As far as the younger generation, many aren't working at all as they can't find jobs. That has nothing to do with them being more into doing their own thing. It's just they can't find a company to hire them.

And the stats are kind of BS because anybody can go to legal zoom and start a business and it really doesn't do a damn thing. Create some website for free and you have a business. You might even make a few bucks. I have had many of those over the years that made a few bucks here and there, paid taxes and so on, but in reality, it wasn't anything more than protecting myself compared to actually starting a real business. But according to stats, they were legit small businesses. You'd be surprised how many 'businesses' exist that are just a business in name only.

But again, if you go by stats sometimes, you'd see ABC Inc has 3 employees and has been around for 4 years. If you want to go even further in the consulting space(any consulting space) you could have 3-4 employees who all really founded the company, all really are independent consultants, but the INC protects them from certain things, makes it seem more legit, lets you do certain things, and then the company pays those consultants a salary out of the income earned. If you do it right and everybody agrees, you might have a company that makes $500K per year gross, except it's really just 4 people working on their own projects making say $125K per year, but they get paid by their ABC Inc instead of some 1099 or whatever from their actual clients.

There are various reasons for this and maybe one day those 4 people will turn it into a 20 person company, but most of the time that doesn't happen. You might just wind up offshoring temp work when you need it. Again, on paper, thats a small business that makes $500K per year. There are many small mom and pop shops that don't make that. And that's being generous as some consultants might be able to generate $300K per year alone. If you have 4 of those people, that company is now a $1.2 million per year kind of company. Except it's really just 4 people who utilize the benefits of a corporation.

It's different than working for some big Fortune 100 company, but in reality, it's not a legit business that is hiring people or even really generating income. I mean if one guy quits or decides to do something else, 1/4 of the income is gone and probably won't be replaced as it doesn't matter. And if you use LLC, you aren't worried about double taxation issues.

But that goes back to the stats and numbers. According to the government this is a small business that makes money every year. In reality it's not.

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by Matt518

What about the self-employed? Not unemployed and not always under-employed, and not usually scared of losing their job.

I'm self-employed and doing well. Anything can happen, and I worry about losing key clients, but I'm pretty sure that if I go into marketing mode I can raise enough business to keep me busy through my planned retirement at age 70 (in 11 years).