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Old 01-13-2015, 01:02 PM
 
358 posts, read 557,464 times
Reputation: 209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman View Post
Thank you for this correction. I do know that Mission Valley's population is set to double in the next 10 years, and it all comes from a single mega development: Civita.

Civita: The Largest Project in the Continued Destruction of Mission Valley

I am a city planning student and this horrifies me. My hopes rest in downtown's resurgence.
Civita is actually smaller than what Stone Creek will be in Mira Mesa. Stone Creek will be 300 acre. There will be 5481 multifamily residential units and about 730,000 sq-ft of commercial/retail space. I don't see a problem with these type of projects. I'm hoping for more projects like these. It allow people to live closer to work and have a lot more retail options closer to homes.

I find the author of that blog complain about what is vs what it will be. There will be commercial spaces, so, I expect it will encourage people to live closer to work. Those who work in UTC/Sorrento Valley will live in those high rises/apartments in UTC or in the new multifamily units that will be in Stone Creek. Those who work in Mission Valley will want to live in Civita or surrounding areas. Those who work downtown will live in downtown.

Why does this horrify you as a city planning student? San Diego's jobs isn't all downtown. There are a lot of jobs in Mission Valley/Sorrento Valley/UTC/Carmel Valley/Rancho Bernardo. So, you would want to build higher density there, instead of forcing companies downtown and people to commute into downtown.
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Old 01-13-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
401 posts, read 411,699 times
Reputation: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by docmcstuffin View Post
Civita is actually smaller than what Stone Creek will be in Mira Mesa. Stone Creek will be 300 acre. There will be 5481 multifamily residential units and about 730,000 sq-ft of commercial/retail space. I don't see a problem with these type of projects. I'm hoping for more projects like these. It allow people to live closer to work and have a lot more retail options closer to homes.

I find the author of that blog complain about what is vs what it will be. There will be commercial spaces, so, I expect it will encourage people to live closer to work. Those who work in UTC/Sorrento Valley will live in those high rises/apartments in UTC or in the new multifamily units that will be in Stone Creek. Those who work in Mission Valley will want to live in Civita or surrounding areas. Those who work downtown will live in downtown.

Why does this horrify you as a city planning student? San Diego's jobs isn't all downtown. There are a lot of jobs in Mission Valley/Sorrento Valley/UTC/Carmel Valley/Rancho Bernardo. So, you would want to build higher density there, instead of forcing companies downtown and people to commute into downtown.
Mission Valley deserves special mention because it is one giant nightmare of nothing but roads, big box stores, and parking lots. Whatever amenities MV has/will have will be owned and privatized, including your civic livelihood. Developers are trying to build an urban, village-like setting in an area that is designed to move interstate traffic from all directions. There is only one main artery through MV and that is Friar's road, and just look how poorly it suffers. Imagine it 2-4x worse when Civita rolls out at the end of its 10 year development cycle. The infrastructure is lacking (0 public schools, 1 library which is located across Friar's (where cars routinely travel at interstate speeds), and for all intents and purposes only reachable by car.

I mean, WTF? It does have a few saving graces such as commercial space but I don't see this ending well from my point of view.

Much better IMO would be to develop areas such as downtown and uptown that are much tighter and more conducive to a real urban lifestyle, and not this suburban-lite garbage getting rammed down our throats.
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:42 PM
 
358 posts, read 557,464 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman View Post
Mission Valley deserves special mention because it is one giant nightmare of nothing but roads, big box stores, and parking lots. Whatever amenities MV has/will have will be owned and privatized, including your civic livelihood. Developers are trying to build an urban, village-like setting in an area that is designed to move interstate traffic from all directions. There is only one main artery through MV and that is Friar's road, and just look how poorly it suffers. Imagine it 2-4x worse when Civita rolls out at the end of its 10 year development cycle. The infrastructure is lacking (0 public schools, 1 library which is located across Friar's (where cars routinely travel at interstate speeds), and for all intents and purposes only reachable by car.

I mean, WTF? It does have a few saving graces such as commercial space but I don't see this ending well from my point of view.

Much better IMO would be to develop areas such as downtown and uptown that are much tighter and more conducive to a real urban lifestyle, and not this suburban-lite garbage getting rammed down our throats.
As I said, you're looking at what it is today and what the city planner want it to be. They're adding a rail line across Mission Valley: Line 3 - San Diego Rail Project. So, if you work downtown, you can hop on the trolley. If you work in UTC, when this project is built out, you'll be able to hop on the trolley too. If you work in Sorrento Valley/Mira Mesa, when Stone Creek finish, you'll be able to hop on the trolley too. Line 5 - San Diego Rail Project. So, the amount of cars you're expecting might not be there.

I agree with you that the infrastructure are lacking. They should at least build an elementary school there. Based on that blog, it seems like they did have plan for an elementary school. There's no need for middle or high school because there's not enough residence to support a whole new middle and high school. As for library, they can easily build a pedestrian bridge across Friars Rd. There will be parks and retail. Maybe that's what the infrastructure they think the people will need vs library. I've been to the parks many time but I haven't been to the library in decades.

Why do we have to neglect other areas of the county just so we can build more in downtown? Why can't it be both? As long as it's private money, I don't see a good reason why we can only concentrate in downtown. Especially when the jobs are currently in Mission Valley, Sorrento Valley, UTC, etc and not downtown. You can easily tell by the traffic patterns just by looking at current traffic.

Lets say you work in Sorrento Valley currently and want to live in a more urban setting like Hillcrest, where you have a lot of restaurant options and are very walkable. Your only choice is uptown and you have to commute to Sorrento Valley. Which would then clog up the freeway. However, if you build Stone Creek development, such buyer would have another option to live in a more urban environment and still be close to work. The same can be said if you're currently working in Mission Valley area. Civita would solve the same problem.
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:54 PM
 
5,160 posts, read 3,967,017 times
Reputation: 8329
I know...build skyscrapers on Fiesta Island!
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
9,411 posts, read 10,340,707 times
Reputation: 11326
I vote for, no more people in San Diego.
Since gas prices have gone down, the 8 freeway has become even a bigger joke in the morning
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego
401 posts, read 411,699 times
Reputation: 323
I absolutely understand why Civita exists and the market conditions that led to its inception. I sincerely hope it succeeds at what it is attempting to do, I really do.

They are extending the trolley up to UTC and construction should begin this year; completion anticipated in about five years. That will be a huge boon to commuters and San Diego as a whole, linking UCSD, the VA, and all those high paying jobs to our current network.

Thanks for the links, but those are all proposed lines, except for the one I just mentioned. They are part of a broad, encompassing "plan" that spans about 100 years. There's a lot of red tape in this business and whatever gets built is probably 10 years behind the curve due to all the red tape.
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:34 PM
 
358 posts, read 557,464 times
Reputation: 209
Here are more info about SD trolley plans: San Diego Trolley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see the UTC to Mira Mesa blue line extension is in planning stage and should be complete in ~15 years. Which is about the time frame of the completion of the Stone Creek development as well. They also have the PB to El Cajon light rail planned for completion in 20 years as well. So, at least you can see this is where San Diego is deciding to spend their money and energy. These stuff don't happen over night, and I understand there are red tapes. However, at least we can take solace that they're planning to head in that direction.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego
46,144 posts, read 41,180,874 times
Reputation: 30200
No schools in Civita? Where exactly do they think they'll get their kids in? They'll have to try either LV or Serra and those schools are packed. Since they stopped a lot of busing there may be some openings come to think about it. LL is starting so we'll see how the headcounts look.

Know this, the intersection of the 163, 8 and 805, heck even 15 are all JAMMED now at rush hours. This will mean nightmare traffic even on the weekends. The 5 already is a mess on the weekends, now there will be no easy travel through SD because of these new builds.

The Friars exits already stack up. It will back up to Gennessee or even Mesa College Dr exits now. It is a one lane exit! Oh boy.

I hate to think of it but they may have to widen Mission Center road to the 805 and get rid of the bottleneck at the top. Those poor residents that bought on that road.

Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 01-14-2015 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:41 AM
 
Location: San Diego
401 posts, read 411,699 times
Reputation: 323
They are in talks to redo the 163 interchange on Friar's.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/163Friars.pdf

$120 million of taxpayer monies
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:20 PM
 
425 posts, read 384,212 times
Reputation: 1483
San Diego's population is NOT going to double in population size in the next 15 years. The very notion is ridiculous and goes against not only every piece of data available, but also very basic common sense.
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