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How is Normal Heights for raising children or having a family? I am particularly interested in the area far north of Adams Avenue (top part of Adams North?), but all information is welcome!
Is this an area that a couple can settle down in and expect to grow into, or do most people inevitably decide to move out once they get to that point in their lives? Normal Heights is definitely trending upward, as far as desirability goes with the younger crowd, but is it also trending upward for young families?
Since I do not have children yet, I am not too familiar with how the school system works. I've read a bit on charter schools so it doesn't sound like we'd be limited to the schools in the immediate area.
A few side questions:
I see that the newly built dog park in Normal Heights is labelled as "interim". Are there plans for the "permanent" dog park?
What are some good websites that would have the latest updates on retail and residential developments in Normal Heights?
(I asked a similar question for North Park, but I'm also interested in Normal Heights.)
There are plans for the interim dog park to replaced with a permanent dog park in nearly the same location. The permanent location requires more ground preparation. That is coming a few years down the road.
If no one who actually lives in Normal Heights replies, as someone who lives in a nearby neighborhood, my response would be that yes it appears to be trending upwards for young families as well. However, it's still an urban neighborhood with all that entails.
My brother raised a kid there but she took a bus an hour to school far away. She doesn't really have many friends in the neighborhood and there are no kids around their house. It's not somewhere I would want to raise my kids. Too many bars and drunks and transients, only one tiny little park. Could you imagine your 15-year old hanging out on Adams ave at night? Kensington is a lot better. We are trying to get out of central SD ASAP to be closer to our kids' schools and better parks. Yes you can do a charter school, but the problem is there are no decent schools anywhere nearby and you will have to get on a freeway to take your kids to school.
My daughter has lived in Normal Heights, north of Adams for the last four years. She and her fiance are looking at homes there. Where she lives is overall quite safe, and a number of families with children live in the homes around her. She walks alone at night in that area with no problem (but she would probably agree with Sassberto that parts of Adams are not the best for walking alone at night if you are female).
Normal Heights has seen a definite upward swing in popularity since she moved there. But, that includes home prices. They have looked at tiny (i.e. 700 square foot) 2 bed, 1 bath bungalows with freeway noise for $500,000+, so I am not sure that their dream of buying a single family home there is going to fly, unless they buy a condo. (There are slightly less expensive homes south of Adams, but the neighborhood quickly gets a little sketchy there, according to my daughter). She is kicking herself because when she moved in some of those same houses were fixer ups going for $300,000.
There are no "residential developments" in Normal Heights North of Adams. There is a mix of apartment complexes, small condo complexes, and single family homes. The apartments/condos are mainly concentrated close to Adams. The majority of homes are older vintage homes (lots of bungalows, etc.) until you get to the ridge overlooking 8, where you will find a pocket of newer homes that were built after the 1985 fire destroyed most of the homes in that area. If you want to learn more about the neighborhood, the Normal Heights website has good information: Normal Heights - Normal Heights Web site (The San Diego Reader has also covered the Normal Heights neighborhood extensively so check their archives. San Diego Reader)
Personally, I would have no issues with living in that general area if I had the budget for it. The further North from Adams you get, the quieter the neighborhood. Yet, you have everything you need on Adams just a few seconds away, including a supermarket. And, you can easily get to the rest of San Diego with a minimum of fuss. I think it would be ideal for retirement.
But, I don't have kids who need schooling any longer. As Sassberto says, the options for public schools serving Normal Heights (and North Park for that matter) are not stellar. Normal Heights Elementary has decent (not outstanding) test scores. The San Diego Global Academy which is located right off of Adams has better test scores and an interesting educational approach.
The trouble with Charter Schools is that most of them do admissions on a lottery system, and chances of "winning" the lottery for the better Charters is lower. For example, my daughter has friends with a four year old who will be starting kindergarten in the fall. They applied to three charter schools and are on the wait list for all three. They are seriously considering selling their home over the summer and moving to "the suburbs" to get into a good school district.
Options for middle and high school get a little more dicey (I am not sure, but I think Normal Heights' "assigned" high school is Hoover but double check. I also believe that the SD Global Academy now goes through middle, but double check), but you do have the excellent Our Lady of Peace and St. Augustine's right in your backyard, and other private schools like Francis Parker wouldn't be a long drive. So if you are planning to settle in Normal Heights for the long term, do your research on schools carefully.
If you like Normal Heights, I agree with Sassberto: check out Kensington . Other mid-city areas you might like might include Mission Hills, Talmadge, South Park, El Cerrito and Rolando. But you will still need to be careful about schools in ALL of these areas, if you plan to stay in the area through high school. Or, keep heading a further east to La Mesa.
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My anecdotal take is that the area has many young families, but perhaps they are not the type of young families you are referring to. I hang out in the area from time to time and remember on one occasion last year we took my mother in law to Demille's Italian Resto on Adams for her birthday and then decided to take the kids to the local park across the way to play after dinner, about 8:30 to 9 PM on a summer night but the park we very well lighted.
There was a coed baseball game going on with a diverse group of young people and there were lots and lots of children playing at the park that evening, the children were mostly if not all Hispanic children with Spanish speaking parents. My theory is that most of the kids in the area live in the local apartment buildings. The park felt very safe as the kids were running around freely, there was nothing or no one seedy hanging around despite the park being right on the main street.
So to respond to your question if young families occupy the area, they certainly do. I would recommend you hang out at the local parks from Trolley Barn in Univ Heights all the way to Ward Canyon Park to get a feel for neighborhood from the family perspective.
There was a coed baseball game going on with a diverse group of young people and there were lots and lots of children playing at the park that evening, the children were mostly if not all Hispanic children with Spanish speaking parents. My theory is that most of the kids in the area live in the local apartment buildings. The park felt very safe as the kids were running around freely, there was nothing or no one seedy hanging around despite the park being right on the main street.
So to respond to your question if young families occupy the area, they certainly do.
Absolutely correct and a good point. There is a big socioeconomic divide with largely wealthy DINKs north of Adams in charming cottages and low-income families south of Adams in run-down apartments.
My anecdotal take is that the area has many young families, but perhaps they are not the type of young families you are referring to. I hang out in the area from time to time and remember on one occasion last year we took my mother in law to Demille's Italian Resto on Adams for her birthday and then decided to take the kids to the local park across the way to play after dinner, about 8:30 to 9 PM on a summer night but the park we very well lighted.
There was a coed baseball game going on with a diverse group of young people and there were lots and lots of children playing at the park that evening, the children were mostly if not all Hispanic children with Spanish speaking parents. My theory is that most of the kids in the area live in the local apartment buildings. The park felt very safe as the kids were running around freely, there was nothing or no one seedy hanging around despite the park being right on the main street.
So to respond to your question if young families occupy the area, they certainly do. I would recommend you hang out at the local parks from Trolley Barn in Univ Heights all the way to Ward Canyon Park to get a feel for neighborhood from the family perspective.
Great points, as always Malcorub. A quick check of Normal Heights Elementary's student demographics (API 3 - Year Average(CA Dept. of Education)) confirms what you are saying. And, that puts Normal Heights Elementary's performance in a much different light; their test scores are actually excellent for a school with such a large percentage of English Language Learners and students from socially disadvantaged families.
(That is one reason that test scores need to be evaluated in the context of the student body. Research shows time and time again that students from wealthier families with college educated parents will skew much higher on testing. So, a school in a place like Encinitas will, to a certain extent, automatically have higher test scores than one in say, Normal Heights. Yet, all of those "best schools" rankings don't take this fact into account and base everything on test scores. Test scores are only a starting point; to really evaluate a school, you always need to dig deeper.)
Thank you for all the responses and insight. Most of you touched upon the highlights and lowlights that we've come across in our research of the area.
My wife and I are also open to the idea of private school. Does anyone have experience with the private/Catholic schools in the area? It's harder to find data on those.
In regards to the public schools designated for the area that I am looking at, it looks like ratings start out well at the elementary level (Adams and Normal Heights) but gradually decrease as you progress to middle and high school level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD
My daughter has lived in Normal Heights, north of Adams for the last four years. She and her fiance are looking at homes there.
RosieSD, is your daughter still house hunting, or where did she end up? She seems to be in similar shoes as my wife and me...though we have never lived in the area before.
[quote=lyner;43975126]Thank you for all the responses and insight. Most of you touched upon the highlights and lowlights that we've come across in our research of the area.
My wife and I are also open to the idea of private school. Does anyone have experience with the private/Catholic schools in the area? It's harder to find data on those.
In regards to the public schools designated for the area that I am looking at, it looks like ratings start out well at the elementary level (Adams and Normal Heights) but gradually decrease as you progress to middle and high school level.
I have a bit of knowledge of the Catholic high schools in that area. Our Lady of Peace and Saint Augustine's are excellent high school options. OLP would actually be walking distance from much of Normal Heights. Based on the students that I've encountered from both schools in my former work as a college counselor, both do a terrific job of preparing students for college and life. Of course, they are single sex schools, which may not be everyone's cup of tea. Until 2006, it used to be that families had another excellent choice in the mid-town area, University of San Diego High School, but the Church made a decision to replace UNI with Cathedral Catholic, which of course is up in Del Mar now. So, Saints and OLP are now really the only Catholic high school options for students in "central" San Diego, unless a family is willing to drive to North County for Cathedral or to the South Bay for Mater Dei (both of which are also excellent schools though).
At the elementary school level, I've heard some nice things about St. Didacus from a few families over the years, which is probably the closest Catholic elementary to North of Adams, but there are other Catholic elementary schools within easy driving distance.
One thing to understand about Catholic schools, at any level, is that they don't have any requirements that a family be Catholic, and welcome students of all faiths (or no faiths). The Catholic school curriculum does, of course, include instruction about the Catholic religion, so if you are not Catholic, you and your child do need to be open-minded about that. (Feel free to send me a private message as I can give you some more personal insights based on my kids' experiences).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyner
RosieSD, is your daughter still house hunting, or where did she end up? She seems to be in similar shoes as my wife and me...though we have never lived in the area before.
She just got engaged a few months ago, so they are just in the very beginning stages of house hunting and figuring out their finances. They probably won't buy until after they get married (and the date for that is still a work in progress). But they would really like to buy in that general area if they can afford it, at least for their first home. She has been very happy living in Normal Heights, and many of her friends have also moved to that area over the last few years, so it feels like "home" to her. Whether she and her fiance will actually end up buying there remains to be seen -- budget concerns may push them further east; that's what has happened to several of her friends who have bought homes in the last few years. But she grew up in rural East County (Jamul), so she would be happy and comfortable somewhere east too; she's just not ready just yet to give up Normal Heights and that general area for the "suburbs" further east.
If you're under 35 and like to be in an area with some life and buzz, culture, coffee, restaurants, yes that area is great. Good for social life. There are good schools in Francis Parker and St. Augustine that are in the area.
But as a person without kids yet, I don't think it's necessary to think that far ahead, because it's impossible to gauge those things so far in advance. Everything changes. And you can always sell whatever you have and buy another house. My girlfriend just helped a couple of friends of ours buy a house. (and with nearly half our age group, the husband was having immediate buyer's remorse. So she said, okay, sell this house in a few months and make a profit, because ultimately, it was a good buy and he can move whenever he wants to. Certainly, it's not an easy decision, but I don't think you have to think 18 years here...
Gotta also think about your jobs. Commutes are important for most. NP and Kensington are pretty central so the commute is not a huge issue for most.
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