Alcohol on San Diego Beachs (Corona, Carlsbad: low crime, neighborhoods, property taxes)

[JakeDog]

I'm glad they passed the law, it cuts down on the unpleasant types.

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by smiling soul

While visiting on Memorial Day we got tickets on Pacific Beach for drinking alcohol. We had been there about 5 minutes and the cops were over asking us what we were drinking and sniffing our drinks. They informed us that this was still a Trial Law but that we were getting tickets!!
2 months later, they came in the mail and they are $210 each!
Is this legal????

Yes, it's clearly posted all over the place and is all over the news.

[mossomo]

Originally Posted by hotornot

or if they parachute onto the beach...

Not a parachute but... Right before Memorial Day, I was at dog beach and kid you not, some cop repelled from off the side of a helicopter to cite tickets to a group of drinkers. A huge waste of tax payer money.

Originally Posted by hotornot

SDPD cannot search them unless they have probrable cause. You can thank the Fourth Ammendment for that.

It's been my experience that the cops have a new toy, this little laser pen like device, they shine it into your drink and it can detect if alcohol is present. They don't really ask your permission.

Originally Posted by hotornot

the police presence at the beach has been minimal almost to the point of being non-existent.

Non-existent? I see them all the time, all day long saturday and sunday. Their presence is so prevasive that they are raiding little dinky backyard type coves in the sunset cliffs area. This area is away from the tourists and masses, and the police are going 20 minutes out of their way to navigate down the side of some remote cliff and over rock outcrops to police ten people. I wish they'd go after illegals like they do beach drinkers...

Originally Posted by jsant5

The Beach ban has been successful in reducing crime

I'm not sure the numbers back your conjecture. Crime Statistics/Maps | Police Department

Armed Robbery per 1000:
2006 (.70) 2007 (.65) 2008 (.57)

Strong Armed Robbery per 1000:
2006 (.97) 2007 (.95) 2008 (.96)

Assualt per 1000:
2006 (2.95) 2007 (2.96) 2008 (2.71)

Residential Burglary per 1000:

2006 (3.47) 2007 (3.43) 2008 (3.41)


This data is empirical. You can see there's been no true noticable downward trend in crime. Assualts were about 3 per 1000 in 2006, 2007 & 2008.


The problem with the ban is that it infringes on our civil liberties. I do not need morality police, we do not live under sharia law. The ban creates another victimless crime. If I'm not bothering anyone, stay out of my life and business. There were laws on the books to prevent public distrubances that they did not enforce. Plus - they didnt do complete count of our petition/signatures. So shady - they played a game of statistical anaylsis, thats like judging the outcome of a football game with only first quarter stats. BS!

[RD5050]

Now that the first summer of the Alcohol Ban is almost over, I personally feel this ban has been a huge success in making Mission Beach and Pacific Beach a much better place to visit.

I typically go to both of these beaches several times a week, and have done so for many years.

This past summer has been a pure joy. I no longer see drunks bothering people on the boardwalk. I no longer see people getting arrested due to fights on the beach. There are no longer huge crowds of noisy college students getting drunk on the beach. There are far fewer police monitoring the beach than I've seen in past years. There are even fewer homeless people hanging out at the beach.

Overall, I'd say this has been the best year for these beaches in all the years I can remember.

I really hope the ban becomes permanent.

[sav858]

This ban has killed both business and the atmosphere in PB. And I have seen just as many cops as ever handing out tickets to pretty much anyone for any reason. They even patrol Windansea Beach now which they never came to before just looking to hand out tickets. They are giving them to 40+ year old tourists from AZ who are more than likely unaware of the law and many Mission Beach businesses have been suffering greatly from the ban. We are a tourist/resort city and our economy depends on tourists, the last thing we should be doing is driving them away.

Beach & Bay Press — Letters to the Editor (broken link)

"I have owned a restaurant in Mission Beach for more six than years. I am concerned that erroneous information is being distributed regarding the effects that the alcohol ban has had on businesses in and around the beach areas. My restaurant is down, and I’ve contacted six other restaurants that are also down. In addition, several property management managers have confided to me that they are down, some as much as 30 percent from the year prior. Hotels are also down."

"Now, it seems that the majority of tickets issued for drinking on the beaches are to older tourists, not misbehaving but simply enjoying an adult beverage while being on vacation. I personally had a group of eight tourists from Arizona come into my restaurant and exclaim that they had all been issued $275 tickets. They were all in there late 40s and 50s and were sitting on the beach, watching their kids play in the surf and sand.

Needless to say they were quite upset. “This has ruined a 27-year tradition! Next year, we’re going to Rocky Point, Mexico,” they said."


Also alcohol was only a problem on essentially one little area of the beach off of Reed St. If you go north of the pier or south of Tower 21, alcohol and drunks were never a big problem at all. But all the fear mongerers applied what occurred in that isolated spot to all the beaches in San Diego and it's total BS. Parents don't take their kids to the French Quarter during Mardi Gras just like you'd think people would be smart enough not to take their kids to the end of Reed St during holidays here. I'm sorry but screaming, out of control bratty kids are just as annoying as some drunk frat boy. What's the difference between some obnoxious drunk and some little screaming brat running all over the place kicking up sand in your face?? A grand total of 11% of the households in the 92109 Zip Code actually even have kids.

Alcohol was only a problem in one spot and now every single stretch of sand in the county bans it because of one little 1/4 mile long stretch of sand at the end of Reed St. There are about 70+ miles of other, very quiet beaches to choose from. I don't get why some "families" insists that they must go to PB and ruin the atmosphere there. I don't go up to North County to rage it and party it up, so don't come down to PB and bring your conservative, boring North County suburban mentality and expect the community to bend over backwards to accommodate what you think we should be like. Isn't there enough of that boring, suburban atmosphere all around San Diego County that people can be happy with?

This ban is should have never even been allowed considering voters already voted one down in 2002. But I guess will have to vote on it again this Nov.

[RD5050]

While I can appreciate your point of view, I don't agree with it.

Neither do these editorial responses to your above mentioned article:

Beach & Bay Press — Letters to the Editor (broken link)

Also see this comment:

Beach & Bay Press — Police lay out Labor Day staffing for PB Town Council (broken link)

The ban has made a big difference, said Sgt. Darrell Esparza with the San Diego Lifeguards.

“This summer has been absolutely fantastic, working without the distraction of binge drinking,” he said. “If someone’s drunk, they stick out like a sore thumb, whereas in the past everyone was drunk.”

Alcohol is a mind altering substance. Plain and simple. When people drink too much, they can't control their own behavior. They become obnoxious, noisy, and sometimes end up in fist fights. When they are intoxicated and go into the ocean, they potentially could drown. This alone creates a huge extra burden for lifeguards, who now have to watch out for these people.

The alcohol ban at beaches has eliminated many of these problems, and it is making the beach safer for everyone.

Unfortunately those who like to drink on beaches can't see this logic. They only want what is best for themselves. They want to get drunk and have their fun, all at the expense of others.

I think the alcohol ban makes complete sense, and I hope it remains permanent.

[sav858]

I really can't stand it when people try to use the one or two bad apples and apply it to the majority of people on the beach. Unfortunately those that are for the ban can't see that the VAST MAJORITY of people who would drink at the beach were NOT DRUNK, obnoxious, or behaving badly. That the majority don't go to the beach to "get drunk" at all. Having a few beers does not constitute getting "drunk". It's that typical fear mongering San Diego mentality is what that is. The same BS that tried to call that fight on Labor Day a "riot" when it was anything but that. Stop making blanket generalizations about people who drink at the beach b/c it's not reality at all, the vast majority of people are responsible and can handle themselves and not the loud, obnoxious drunks you fear mongers like to portray.

Maybe if officers actually enforced the laws that are on the book and PREVENTED things from getting out of hand that wouldn't be a problem. You can kick people off the beach for the day and threaten to arrest them if they come back BEFORE they become a problem, which I never say the SDPD do. They always waited UNTIL something happened to do anything.

Maybe if you actually lived in Pacific Beach you would understand the REALITY of the situation but like many, you people just sit from their little inland suburban perch passing stereotypical judgments about a community that everyone loves to judge constantly.

[RD5050]

Not everyone who drives a car while intoxicated will get into an accident or will kill someone with their car. But we know that it can happen, so we have a law which prevents people from driving while intoxicated.

The same applies to drinking at the beach. The presence of alcohol can create bad situations. So we now have a law to lessen the possibility of these situations from occurring.

And as police and lifeguards will testify, the ban has made a huge difference this year.

I live just a few miles from the beach, and I go there often, possibly even more than most PB residents. And I can say without a doubt that this is the best year I've ever seen the beaches.

There are significantly fewer police needed, since there are far fewer problems.

The beaches are now much safer and a much nicer place to visit.

[sav858]

Yet we still allow people to have some drinks and drive, just not get DRUNK and do it. B/c not everyone who takes a sip of alcohol gets drunk. You get a DUI if you had TOO MUCH to drink and not just anything to drink. The same should case should be with the beach, fine, arrest, or kick those off the beach who have had TOO MUCH to drink just like they do with people who've driven after having TOO MUCH to drink. So yes about apply the same laws we use for drinking and driving to the beach, that's a good idea I can agree with.

The only difference I notice is in the ONE SPOT at the end of Reed St, the rest of the beaches are the same as they always were. North of the pier alcohol was never a problem and south of Tower 20/21 it wasn't either. So all of this so we can save ONE little 1/4 stretch of sand for screaming, spoiled kiddies b/c it's not like there aren't any other stretches of sand they can play on....

If there are fewer police needed then why do I see more police than ever at the beaches? Why are there police walking along cliffs and rocks in betweeen Windansea Beach and Marine St Beach when I had rarely ever seen a cop there before?

[RD5050]

I think the results of the alcohol ban speak for themselves.

We have had significantly fewer incidents this year than in previous years.

And yes there are definitely fewer police on Mission Beach and Pacific Beach this year. I am absolutely certain. In previous years I often noticed large groups of police watching the beach, especially near Reed St. This year I only see a few police riding bikes in pairs, and maybe one or two in police cars parked near the beach. Also a few on the beach riding 4-wheelers. But that's it. It's nothing compared to previous years.

I can't speak for the number of police at Windandsea because I rarely go there.