10-21-2017, 06:55 AM
Location: Coastal San Diego
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Well researched PacoMan. But don't you think that voting on the Miramar option without Federal Gov't approval was pretty much useless? Were we hoping the Feds would just give us Miramar if we asked?
Taking over Miramar or North Island will never happen. We are stuck with a one-runway Lindbergh Field. And with all the current construction going around Lindbergh Field, we are stuck with Lindbergh Field for the foreseeable future.
And here's a tivial question for you. St Louis, New York, and San Diego all claim associations to Charles Lindbergh. What's the San Diego connection to Charles Lindbergh?
10-21-2017, 07:00 AM
Location: Morrison, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cruitr
And here's a tivial question for you. St Louis, New York, and San Diego all claim associations to Charles Lindbergh. What's the San Diego connection to Charles Lindbergh?
Ryan Aircraft, the manufacturer of his famous plane the Spirit if St. Louis was built there. If memory serves he had a hand in the design/production in San Diego.
10-21-2017, 07:24 AM
Location: Coastal San Diego
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Ding ding ding... we have a winner. San Diego built the Lindbergh plane, St Louis paid for the plane, and the plane took off out of New York.
I was really pissed off when SD city gov't white-washed the Charles Lindbergh mural off of the wall of the cummuter terminal a few years ago. I don't even have a decent picture of the mural.
10-21-2017, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cruitr
Well researched PacoMan. But don't you think that voting on the Miramar option without Federal Gov't approval was pretty much useless? Were we hoping the Feds would just give us Miramar if we asked?
Absolutely. Gatwick airport in London is also a
single runway airport that flew 43 million air passengers in 2016. Contrary to what many people think, they don't double San Diego's passenger load by using night flights. Gatwick has more widebody aircraft than San Diego, but not enough so that makes up the huge difference in passengers.
I was a very strong advocate of the position that the airlines would begin flying larger airplanes with more passengers per plane. The airlines started flying larger planes only two years after the vote.
Year Psgrs/flight
2002 90
2003 88
2004 91
2005 92
2006 92
2007 91
2008 93
2009 98
2010 104
2011 106
2012 107
2013 108
2014 111
2015 118
2016 120
But dealing with the increased number of people means new terminals, and more off-airport check in. Very few people transfer planes at San Diego, so it doesn't have to be built out like LAX
I simply don't understand how they could build underground subways in London in 1860's, and it is impossible to build a 2 mile partly underground subway from Union Station near downtown to the airport terminal. You could have passenger check in as part of the underground facility, and tie it in to Amtrak, Coaster, and SDTrolley so that more people arrive at the airport via public transportation.
Whatever that 2 mile underground subway costs, it has to be a whole heck of a lot cheaper than the $10 billion to build a shared Miramar airport, which was never going to be approved by the military anyway.
Are you familiar with the cable pulled Mandalay Bay Tram (2,749-foot-long) opened on April 9, 1999 in Las Vegas? The train cars are firmly attached to a haul rope and run on pneumatic tires to ensure extremely quiet operation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandalay_Bay_Tram
You should know that technology has been developed since 1999 so that pulling a tram for 2 miles is feasible. The company that built the tram in Las Vegas also built the 3.2 mil Coliseum–Oakland International Airport line which began operation on November 22, 2014. The average speed is 24 mph and top speed is 30 mph. Transit time in San Diego would be under 5 minutes.
Most recent month where BTS had statistics for SAN Airport
% of flights - number of seats (empty seats)
1.5% 252 (24) widebody
82.1% 157 (28) narrowbody
14.8% 72 (17) regional jets
1.6% other jets (cargo and private)
100.0% 143 (26)
Last edited by PacoMartin; 10-21-2017 at 08:35 AM ..
10-22-2017, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cruitr
Ding ding ding... we have a winner. San Diego built the Lindbergh plane, St Louis paid for the plane, and the plane took off out of New York.
I was really pissed off when SD city gov't white-washed the Charles Lindbergh mural off of the wall of the cummuter terminal a few years ago. I don't even have a decent picture of the mural.
Just take a drive up to Ramona. That's where they moved the mural. You can't miss it on Main Street.
Charles Lindbergh Mural Relocated to Ramona - NBC 7 San Diego
I do agree that it should have remained at the airport, but at least it didn't end up on a scrap heap somewhere.
10-22-2017, 11:10 AM
Location: Coastal San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
RosieSD
Thanks RosieSD. I don't make it up to Ramona very often but at least they saved the Lindbergh mural. Maybe they should rename the Ramona airport to Lindbergh Field.
10-22-2017, 01:32 PM
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I did find the presentation by San Diego Airport Authority from
June 7, 2004 . They said the analysis was conducted by SH&E (one of the most prestigious companies in the world) and reviewed by 11 different government agencies
SH&E Was Asked to Prepare Aviation Demand Forecasts to Estimate When San Diego International Airport (SDIA) Will Reach Its Runway Capacity Limits
Here are the numbers SH&E used in their analysis
Average
year - passengers -load% - seats
2002 87 72.9% 120
2010 95 75.7% 125
2020 98 76.8% 128
2030 100 76.9% 130
Findings and conclusions
Passenger Airlines are the Principal Driver of Total Aircraft Operations at SDIA
Passenger Traffic at SDIA is Forecast to Grow from 15.3 Million Passengers in 2003 to Between 27 and 33 Million in 2030
Historically, Increases in Aircraft Size and Load Factors at SDIA Permitted Strong Passenger Growth Without a Commensurate Increase in the Number of Aircraft Operations
However, High Current Load Factors and Aircraft Fleet Trends Indicate that, Over the Forecast Period, SDIA Aircraft Operations Will Grow at Rates that Approach the Underlying Rate of Passenger Growth
As a Result, SDIA Aircraft Operations are Forecast to Increase From Approximately 200,000 Flights in 2003 up to Between 303,000 and 365,000 Flights in 2030 (Unconstrained)
While SDIA Can Accommodate Current Flight Activity, the Single Runway Has Insufficient Capacity to Handle the Forecast Growth in Aircraft Operations
Runway Capacity will Begin to Constrain Growth at 260,000 Operations—Approximately 30% Above Current Levels—Occurring Between 2015 and 2022
At 300,000 Annual Operations—Occurring Between 2021 and 2030—Runway Congestion will Eliminate Further Growth
Investments in the SDIA Gate and Taxiway Systems (Additional Gates and Taxiway Improvements) Will be Required to Reach these Levels
If Additional Runway Capacity is Not Provided, San Diego Will Experience a Cumulative Loss of At Least 5 Million Passengers (Low Growth Scenario) and As Many As 31 Million Passengers (High Growth Scenario) Over the Forecast Period
=================================
The FAA BTS stats calculate to 90 seats per flight in 2002, but that is probably because SH&E counted in military flights.
But according to BTS these were the actual numbers. In reality the airlines responded to the economic crash of 2008 by flying much bigger planes with higher load factors.
Year Psgrs/flight
2002 90
2003 88
2004 91
2005 92
2006 92
2007 91
2008 93
2009 98
2010 104
2011 106
2012 107
2013 108
2014 111
2015 118
2016 120
Bottom line is that the forecast was predicting 100 passengers per plane in 2030, and the airport passed 100 passenger per plane by 2010.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 10-22-2017 at 02:08 PM ..
10-23-2017, 04:59 AM
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Perhaps I can simplify the comment
In 2004 they forecast said Passenger Traffic at SDIA is Forecast to Grow from 15.3 Million Passengers in 2003 to Between 27 and 33 Million in 2030.
That is a growth rate of between 2.13% and 2.89% per year. In reality it was less, but they couldn't have forecast the recession.
But the forecast said that passengers per plane would increase by 0.50% (from 87 passengers in 2002 to 100 passengers in 2030).
So of course, the runway is overtaxed. In reality the growth in passengers per plane for 14 years topped 2%.
10-25-2017, 11:34 PM
Location: Sandy Eggo - Kensington
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Interesting conversation. Can't believe the vote was 10 years ago. As PacoMartiin said earlier, it's unbelievable that the trolley doesn't service the airport from downtown.
10-26-2017, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdurbanite
Interesting conversation. Can't believe the vote was 10 years ago. As PacoMartiin said earlier, it's unbelievable that the trolley doesn't service the airport from downtown.
Actually a trolley car is 81.4 ft by 8.7 ft by 12.3 ft and weights 96,500 lbs empty. It has a maximum operational speed 55 mph with Service acceleration and deceleration 3.0 mph/sec and a passenger capacity 60 seats.
It's too much to go to the 2 miles from Union Station to the airport. I was thinking of an cable pulled Automated Guideway Transit system like the Oakland airport or Mandalay Bay or MGM center tram in Las Vegas (all three built by same company in Germany).
https://www.dcc.at/files/sites/defau...ence_sheet.pdf
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People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)