Free trash fee myth (best, work, pension)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by JimGriffith

I'm an outsider thinking of moving to SD, but this thread piqued my interest.

A. Is Oakland considered "generous" because of their higher tax rate, and is that the city setting the standard that everyone should hold themselves to?

B. Is an entire city really considered "cheap" because they have a low tax rate? I think you're cheap if you leave a 10% tip or give someone a pair of socks as a gift. But I wouldn't accuse an entire political entity of cheapness just because they have a lower rate at which they submit their money to the government.

I was not trying to say that San Diego should emulate Oakland or these other large cities at all; Oakland is a really bad example too. Those cities obviously have their problems and overall I do appreciate that San Diego is fiscally conservative BUT it just goes too far at times. I think San Diego does a better job handling its money that other cities, except for the whole pension mess. So I think we could be an even better city if we spent a little more b/c we seem to be able to get more for our tax dollar here compared to other cities.

I do like and appreciate that San Diego isn't as loose with its money as other cities and doesn't just try to tax and spend its way out of problems but trying to close libraries and rec centers instead of charging a trash fee is just absolutely ridiculous IMO.

The city grew a lot after WWII and its infrastructure is really falling apart today but people here are too cheap to pay for a major overall. They just keep wanting to use a band aid to keep patching up its problems. I mean how many times are we going to keep patching up broken water mains instead of just replacing the whole damn thing? People want parks instead of development but don't actually want to pay for the parks. What people expect compared to what they pay for here is pretty ridiculous.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Let's not forget the infamous Pension!

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Let's not forget the infamous Pension!

The pension decision was criminal, but too-stoned San Diego couldn't see to it to oust the city council who made the decision!

[leighland]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

The pension decision was criminal, but too-stoned San Diego couldn't see to it to oust the city council who made the decision!

Correct me please but aren't half the members of the same council still in office? Geez....

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by leighland

Correct me please but aren't half the members of the same council still in office? Geez....

All of them are now either gone or will be termed out and gone as of Jan 1. Good riddance, especially to Scott Peters and Jim Madaffer.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Let's not forget the infamous Pension!

And lets not forget that San Diegan's voted out the one guy trying to fix it!

As much as a grandstanding, pompous, over zealous douche Aguirre was, he was the only one willing to call City Hall out and work in the best interests of SD taxpayers. And now we are stuck with toupe man Jan Goldsmith who has already started to flip flop on stances. He doesn't even want to go after the City Council's generous auto allowances like he said he would so don't expect him to even come within a mile of the pension mess. I cannot believe what a dumb decision this city made with that.

[JimGriffith]

Ok thanks for the responses.

I'm something of a refugee from Chicago, where politicians and crony-packed boards took every chance they could get to raise taxes and fees.

At this point they tax the hell out of everything, but I never considered myself generous seeing as I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

And I never thought of myself as being cheap for resenting how they sucked average taxpayers dry and wasted the money on ridiculous programs that don't work (except to line a political insider's pockets and/or help one of those politicians get reelected).

I only read occasional stories about the fiscal problems in California and SD so I'm just trying to get a feel for the situation.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by JimGriffith

I only read occasional stories about the fiscal problems in California and SD so I'm just trying to get a feel for the situation.

San Diego's problems are unique. The city was dubbed "Enron by the Sea"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/07/national/07diego.html

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by sav858

And lets not forget that San Diegan's voted out the one guy trying to fix it!

As much as a grandstanding, pompous, over zealous douche Aguirre was, he was the only one willing to call City Hall out and work in the best interests of SD taxpayers. And now we are stuck with toupe man Jan Goldsmith who has already started to flip flop on stances. He doesn't even want to go after the City Council's generous auto allowances like he said he would so don't expect him to even come within a mile of the pension mess. I cannot believe what a dumb decision this city made with that.

Didn't he state that he is going to leave it up to the Council if they want to pursue it? Was this the current Council? Isn't that like asking someone being indicted if they still want to pursue their own indictment?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Didn't he state that he is going to leave it up to the Council if they want to pursue it? Was this the current Council? Isn't that like asking someone being indicted if they still want to pursue their own indictment?

probably, honestly I have not heard much from him about the pension which indicates to me he is going to do nothing about it.

This is a quote from that NY Times article Sassberto linked to above, I can't believe San Diegan's voted out this guy:

"This is a powder keg, a major, major problem," said Mike Aguirre, a securities lawyer and former financial fraud investigator for the United States Senate and the Justice Department who is running for San Diego city attorney.

Mr. Aguirre said that the city's inability to produce a credible financial statement made it impossible to know just how severe the crisis was. He said that a corporation that behaved like the City of San Diego would be delisted from the stock exchanges. He suggested that the best solution might be reorganization under Chapter 9 of the federal bankruptcy law to allow the city to rescind pension benefits.

Mr. Aguirre blamed San Diego's laid-back civic culture in which a handful of influential businessmen, union leaders and political figures called the shots while issuing reassurances to the public that everything was on the up-and-up.

"The basic story is that San Diego has become a thoroughly corrupt community in which the power players cut the deals, you don't ask any questions, and everybody gets what they want," Mr. Aguirre said. "People don't realize that one of the largest cities in the United States is on the verge of bankruptcy, and it's on the verge because of a massive amount of local corruption that has resulted in the thorough mismanagement of city finances."

Seriously, San Diegan's deserve the corruption and poor city services they get for being so damn cheap and voting out someone b/c he wouldn't pander to the Charger's. The city has a long, long history of corruption and our apathy isn't going to change that anytime soon.