Free trash fee myth (Los Angeles, San Diego: sales, real estate, crime)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Scott Peters just admitted on KPBS radio that we already pay for trash collection through our property taxes.

I'm all for raising revenue if needed but let's not lie about it.

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Scott Peters just admitted on KPBS radio that we already pay for trash collection through our property taxes.

I'm all for raising revenue if needed but let's not lie about it.

We already pay for schools through our property taxes.

That doesn't stop the residents of PUSD from assessing themselves to pay for their schools.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

We already pay for schools through our property taxes.

That doesn't stop the residents of PUSD from assessing themselves to pay for their schools.

Of course not.

It's just funny how everyone has been screaming how cheap we are. We are so cheap we won't pay for trash service. Well, it turns out that was false, we do pay for it. The City employees were screaming the loudest about our "free" trash service.

I'm all for raising revenue but let's not try and hide what it's for or how we are going to do it. An increase in a fee is completely different than implementing a fee where it was currently free.

To say it was free and then have it turn out it isn't? Well, wouldn't that be considered a lie?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Of course not.

It's just funny how everyone has been screaming how cheap we are. We are so cheap we won't pay for trash service. Well, it turns out that was false, we do pay for it. The City employees were screaming the loudest about our "free" trash service.

I'm all for raising revenue but let's not try and hide what it's for or how we are going to do it. An increase in a fee is completely different than implementing a fee where it was currently free.

To say it was free and then have it turn out it isn't? Well, wouldn't that be considered a lie?

In what way does property taxes pay for trash service? Is it a direct parcel tax/assessment that pays specifically for trash? How much is it?

SAN DIEGO IS CHEAP and here is your proof:

"On average, San Diego's general fund takes in about $546 annually from each of its 1.3 million residents. That is less per capita than most of California's major cities, according to a Union- Tribune study of data from California Controller Steve Westly's office.


Oakland, Los Angeles and Sacramento collect between 38 percent and 79 percent more per capita. And when income is factored in, San Diegans walk away with more in their pockets after paying city taxes than people in every other big California city except Fresno. More specifically, the city gets 2.4 cents of every dollar of household income, about half of what Oakland and Los Angeles collect. Making matters worse, San Diego city councils have flip-flopped time and again on the question of boosting taxes -- deciding one week to put measures on the ballot to charge for trash pickup or parking at the beach, for example, only to reverse themselves a week or month later, cowed by an outraged public."



Online CPI*:*NEWS COVERAGE: America's Cheapest City San Diego-Union Tribune, 8/28/05.

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Metro -- 'America's cheapest city'




No offense to Fresno but that is the LAST city in CA that I want to be compared to. Anaheim has Disneyland and a ton of hotels and attractions to boost its revenue for a city of its size and the other three cities (Riverside, Santa Ana, and Fresno), are crap. Do you really want San Diego to be on the level of Riverside or Santa Ana?

People here are the cheapest tightwads and expect a free lunch but just can't admit it for whatever reason even though all the stats and data shows that we are definitely a CHEAP city, cheaper than pretty much everyone else except some of the worst cities in CA like Fresno.

[Sassberto]

I don't believe anything that Scott Peters has to say anyway.

[FresnoFacts]

Fresno might be knocked, but it finished the 2007-08 fiscal year with a $4.5 million budget surplus (out of a $1.2 billion budget).

Most California cities are scrambling to cut services and raise revenues to make up for deficits making Fresno look good right now.

And Fresno did it while also reducing crime this year and increasing other services like fire protection.

The Sacramento Bee had a column last week comparing Fresno and Sacramento, why the city of Sac has a budget problem and Fresno doesn't.
Dan Walters: Big contrast between Sacramento, Fresno - Sacramento Politics - California Politics | Sacramento Bee

[f_m]

I do know that the sales tax in SD is slightly lower than certain LA areas.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by sav858

In what way does property taxes pay for trash service? Is it a direct parcel tax/assessment that pays specifically for trash? How much is it?

SAN DIEGO IS CHEAP and here is your proof:

"On average, San Diego's general fund takes in about $546 annually from each of its 1.3 million residents. That is less per capita than most of California's major cities, according to a Union- Tribune study of data from California Controller Steve Westly's office.


Oakland, Los Angeles and Sacramento collect between 38 percent and 79 percent more per capita. And when income is factored in, San Diegans walk away with more in their pockets after paying city taxes than people in every other big California city except Fresno. More specifically, the city gets 2.4 cents of every dollar of household income, about half of what Oakland and Los Angeles collect. Making matters worse, San Diego city councils have flip-flopped time and again on the question of boosting taxes -- deciding one week to put measures on the ballot to charge for trash pickup or parking at the beach, for example, only to reverse themselves a week or month later, cowed by an outraged public."



Online CPI*:*NEWS COVERAGE: America's Cheapest City San Diego-Union Tribune, 8/28/05.

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Metro -- 'America's cheapest city'




No offense to Fresno but that is the LAST city in CA that I want to be compared to. Anaheim has Disneyland and a ton of hotels and attractions to boost its revenue for a city of its size and the other three cities (Riverside, Santa Ana, and Fresno), are crap. Do you really want San Diego to be on the level of Riverside or Santa Ana?

People here are the cheapest tightwads and expect a free lunch but just can't admit it for whatever reason even though all the stats and data shows that we are definitely a CHEAP city, cheaper than pretty much everyone else except some of the worst cities in CA like Fresno.

I'm not saying yea or NEH. I'm saying Peters admitted we already pay for trash. What that means to me is if true, we need to start with another theme for raising revenue. I've yet to see Govt docs that say we don't....or do for that matter. A Council member admitting anything is like a smoking gun for this CLOWNCIL this term as far as I am concerned.

[JimGriffith]

I'm an outsider thinking of moving to SD, but this thread piqued my interest.

A. Is Oakland considered "generous" because of their higher tax rate, and is that the city setting the standard that everyone should hold themselves to?

B. Is an entire city really considered "cheap" because they have a low tax rate? I think you're cheap if you leave a 10% tip or give someone a pair of socks as a gift. But I wouldn't accuse an entire political entity of cheapness just because they have a lower rate at which they submit their money to the government.

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by JimGriffith

Is an entire city really considered "cheap" because they have a low tax rate? I think you're cheap if you leave a 10% tip or give someone a pair of socks as a gift. But I wouldn't accuse an entire political entity of cheapness just because they have a lower rate at which they submit their money to the government.

San Diego has an anti-tax culture. That is a well-known trait of this area, and is usually attributed to the large population of wealthy retirees and military in the area. San Diego is also well-known for being "cheap" with regard to services. That means:

- the city runs a smaller police force than any city of it's size, meaning most of San Diego is permanently underpoliced, even at full staffing levels.

- the city and county have a legendary lack of fire services. City of San Diego is short 20 or more stations. In many highly-populated portions of San Diego (i.e. Mission Valley), there is no fire station at all. San Diego spends exponentially less than OC and LA

- the San Diego sewer system is so outdated as to have to request EPA waivers on a permanent basis to allow continued dumping of minimally processed sewage offshore.

- San Diego's population has quadrupled in 30 years but the city has seen no major upgrade to core city infrastructure like roads, power, water systems.

- San Diego maintains a skeleton crew of people to handle graffitti paint-out city wide. Code compliance officers are also in short supply.

- San Diego's older areas suffer from a lack of traffic control, stop lights, stop signs. In many cases these neighborhoods have seen no traffic improvement since they were built 70+ years ago

- San Diego built a trolley system that failed to connect to our antiquated single-runway airport. Trolley service runs to small-population suburban cities with low ridership, but skirts the densely populated urban core and suburban job centers completely

You have to understand that the lifeblood of the San Diego economy is real estate development and tourism. The developers in San Diego have typically been given a sweetheart deal with the city.

That has changed in recent years but generally speaking this city relies on increased residential development to stay afloat. San Diego is probably as close to bankruptcy as an entity can be without actually declaring it.