Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So what are your thoughts on NY state? They are losing more people per capita than CA so does that mean they are done too? That state has been ranked as even more dysfunctional than CA with even higher taxes. NY City alone lost a million people in the 70's and I wonder how many back then thought it would rebound to what it is today.
CA is just farther down the same track. NYC is already for the rich and poor and has been for years. It is mostly a theme park for eastern european millionaires and tourists. But, NYC has a much larger and stable middle class than CA does. There was no overbuilding or funky loans in NYC. It is not a boom-and-bust state either. NYC also is part of a large region with multiple cities so although people leave NY they are often going to DC, which is like people from LA going to SF. Most of the people bailing the northeast are going to the southeast and they are either retirees or working-class, not like CA where you have established middle class people and high-income people leaving. You can't move from NYC to North Carolina without taking a big pay cut if you are white-collar, but you can easily move to another city and make San Diego or even LA money.
Read the Long Island forums you will see they are seeing the same problems as CA, middle class towns that were always solid middle class declining. However NY is just a more stable, traditional place and they would riot in the streets before allowing what has happened to CA to happen there. People in NYC suburbs would never allow their school system to fall apart like it did here for example, would never allow their police to be low-paid. They care deeply about the quality of their neighborhoods and schools in a way many CA communities do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858
Also SD has seen a small domestic increase in population recently. Back to levels not seen since 2002, you know the year housing started to go crazy.
"From 2000 to 2003, net domestic migration ran as much as 20,000 per year. Then at the peak of the housing bubble, migration reversed course for four years as county residents fled to lower-cost places such as Riverside County, Las Vegas and Phoenix, where they landed comparable jobs and bought homes at a fraction of San Diego's prices. The peak net outflow was 14,744 in 2006."
A lot of people can't sell their homes. The minute they can, they are gone. A lot of people can't stomach this rollercoaster anymore. You might not be impacted by it, but the "sky is falling" for a lot of people right now. Those people are mostly business owners, homeowners and families. If you aren't in that group, this recession probably doesn't affect you very much.
SD is quite a one industry town as much as those rust belt cities were. And on top of that those places don't have the climate and location that give SD and CA a natural advantage over other places.
OKC isn't growing in leaps and bounds, it is doing very well economically and that is probably b/c it doesn't grow in leaps and bounds. It doesn't have the boom and bust cycles other places like CA have. It wasn't doing as well as many other places a few years ago that have now gone bust. It's more stable overall.
have you visited OKC recently and do you have family living there? As for 1 industry town, you are correct about that as well as the weather, just don't be so sure it won't happen to San Diego. There are so many elements to consider, one being cost of living. Companies re-locate all the time for that reason is no other. I can give you an example of 2 companies that left NYC and relocated to Dallas, as well as a couple of companies that left L. A and relocated or part of their company did anyway. As this happens the new locations become the hot spots, salaries go up, cost of homes purchases go up and companies go through the re-organizing all over again. With so much emphasis being put on tele-commuting today, anything can and will happen.
Maybe you wouldn't leave San Diego for all the money in the world and that is great. Certainly it has a lot to offer. But think about it this way (keep an open mind) a person is offered a job paying $70,000 a year and they can live anywhere in the country as they will be doing much of their work from home, do you think the majority of these people will choose San Diego? Now offer the same thing only $200,000 and maybe they would put SD at the top of their list.
You mention your family being middle class and many without college educations, some without even highschool, for them San Diego worked, but I bet they didn't move there in the past 10 years, I bet most have lived there when it was nothing but a military town, with a couple of colleges.
Maybe those that are asking too much b/c they still think they're house is worth some magical inflated value it should have never been at in the first place.
But recent home sales data shows a lot of people buying homes now b/c they are at more reasonable levels. And I'm assuming they are buying to stay here or else why would they buy here. The price came down and the sales went up, that seems to indicate a market that is finally stabilizing itself to what it should be imo.
Quote:
You might not be impacted by it, but the "sky is falling" for a lot of people right now. Those people are mostly business owners, homeowners and families. If you aren't in that group, this recession probably doesn't affect you very much.
That basically describes almost everyone in my family, most are small business owners with a family. None have any desire or good reason to leave. I work for a small business and no one has been laid off and none of my coworkers are struggling or looking to leave. That is MY experiance and just as valid as yours.
The sky may be falling for a lot of you but it's not for a lot of people as well and it's amazing how many people so easily overlook that. If everyone that is doing fine and has no plans to leave voiced their opinions as much as the malcontents on the other side of the spectrum then many would probably have a different view on CA. What's gonna grab headlines more so on USA Today.com, a story about how Ca is falling apart and everyone is leaving or a story on all the people that are doing fine and just staying put living their lives as they were before? That reporter from USAToday that posted in the CA thread looking for stories told me straight up that he was looking to show the negative side. Stuff like that just feeds people's perceptions and skews reality.
There are plenty of people doing perfectly fine in this state but if we somehow express that then we're in denial or something. But if we have a negative view then it's alright. It's a double standard and BS.
There are plenty of people doing perfectly fine in this state but if we somehow express that then we're in denial or something. But if we have a negative view then it's alright. It's a double standard and BS.
No one is really saying that, and you seem to take every comment as it is personally directed toward you. That's not my intention. You seem to have this need to try and refute everything you disagree with.
have you visited OKC recently and do you have family living there?
No, I did read an article on it yesterday describing how it's bucking the recession. And a big theme was that it doesn't go through the booms and busts places like CA and FL do. Like I said, it is more stable overall. It's doing well but it's not like it's growing like Vegas or Phoenix were 5 years ago. It seems to have a more sustainable level of moderate, healthy growth.
Quote:
Maybe you wouldn't leave San Diego for all the money in the world and that is great. Certainly it has a lot to offer. But think about it this way (keep an open mind) a person is offered a job paying $70,000 a year and they can live anywhere in the country as they will be doing much of their work from home, do you think the majority of these people will choose San Diego? Now offer the same thing only $200,000 and maybe they would put SD at the top of their list.
Completely depends on the individual and they're situation. SD and CA is not worth it to many people understandably but it is for many others as well, even families in their 30's.
Quote:
You mention your family being middle class and many without college educations, some without even highschool, for them San Diego worked, but I bet they didn't move there in the past 10 years, I bet most have lived there when it was nothing but a military town, with a couple of colleges.
Nita
My family is in Northern CA but none are in the high tech industries or any of the industries unique to the Bay Area. What they do up there they could do down here and make the same money.
Some of us are natives of this state so maybe we have an attachment some of you just don't get or care to understand. It's our home just as the rustbelt is home to all those that choose to stay there. Maybe it's my mentality, my dad always raised me with a "you gotta do what you gotta do" attitude, which means you do what you can to make it work. For some it's too leave, for others we find ways to make it work fine in this state.
If you wanna to talk about open minds try looking at all the people doing fine in this state instead of focusing on the much smaller percentage not doing fine.
No one is really saying that, and you seem to take every comment as it is personally directed toward you. That's not my intention. You seem to have this need to try and refute everything you disagree with.
No I never felt as if your or anyone's else comments were directed at me personally. But I am offering MY experiance, which is the basis for my opinion, to show that plenty of other people do not see it the way you or others do. Or that the majority of people are not in your situation. You write in a way that over generalizes everything and applies your standards/point of view to everyone else and I am showing the other side of that. If you want to take that as me taking personally and needing to refute everything I disagree with then go ahead but that isn't my intention, it's just my opinion and insight, I thought this was a two way forum and not some Yahoo Answers Q & A format. But hey you see what you wanna see. If one complains then it's okay, but if one shoots back at the complainer to show a different side then it's something different. Again, a double standard and it's common on here. People looking to move here need to hear BOTH sides, not just your over generalization of "everyone". Some move here and will agree with you, but many move here and will do fine.
No, I did read an article on it yesterday describing how it's bucking the recession. And a big theme was that it doesn't go through the booms and busts places like CA and FL do. Like I said, it is more stable overall. It's doing well but it's not like it's growing like Vegas or Phoenix were 5 years ago. It seems to have a more sustainable level of moderate, healthy growth.
Completely depends on the individual and they're situation. SD and CA is not worth it to many people understandably but it is for many others as well, even families in their 30's.
My family is in Northern CA but none are in the high tech industries or any of the industries unique to the Bay Area. What they do up there they could do down here and make the same money.
Some of us are natives of this state so maybe we have an attachment some of you just don't get or care to understand. It's our home just as the rustbelt is home to all those that choose to stay there. Maybe it's my mentality, my dad always raised me with a "you gotta do what you gotta do" attitude, which means you do what you can to make it work. For some it's too leave, for others we find ways to make it work fine in this state.
If you wanna to talk about open minds try looking at all the people doing fine in this state instead of focusing on the much smaller percentage not doing fine.
Does this shock you? I am a native of Calif as well and a graduate of SDSU as is my husband. Our oldest daughter graduated from Northridge, her husband did as well. They left Ca as soon as they could to settle in Texas. Her best friend from college did the same. Our younger daughter went to SDSU and now lives in Florida and our son lives in Florida. My brother works for the city of L>A. is waiting for his retirement papers so he can move to AZ. We do have friends still in CA, most of them would leave tomorrow if it wasn't for family ties, a few have left and gone back because, like you, CA is the only place they feel they can be happy.
of course there are many people that wouldn't leave the state if someone offered them a million dollars and I respect their reasons, but you, as has been said, seem to take everything personally. The question was asked about the future of San Diego, some have said they do not see it coming back fully nor see the state totally recooping, this is just opinions. California does have serious problems and will for many years to come, will they eventually turn around? Who knows...
Nita
ps, your comment about people moving to Ca needing to hear both sides, yes they do and some of us are just trying to prepare them for what they will find when they make that move. For people moving, with jobs, who have been able to get company transfers and really want to experience Ca living, I am happy for them, but for those who want to move to Ca, anywhere in Ca because of what they have heard and they do not have jobs or thousands of dollars they need to know a move at this time could spell disaster for them. This is reality not negatism.
Does this shock you? I am a native of Calif as well and a graduate of SDSU as is my husband. Our oldest daughter graduated from Northridge, her husband did as well. They left Ca as soon as they could to settle in Texas. Her best friend from college did the same. Our younger daughter went to SDSU and now lives in Florida and our son lives in Florida. My brother works for the city of L>A. is waiting for his retirement papers so he can move to AZ. We do have friends still in CA, most of them would leave tomorrow if it wasn't for family ties, a few have left and gone back because, like you, CA is the only place they feel they can be happy.
of course there are many people that wouldn't leave the state if someone offered them a million dollars and I respect their reasons, but you, as has been said, seem to take everything personally. The question was asked about the future of San Diego, some have said they do not see it coming back fully nor see the state totally recooping, this is just opinions. California does have serious problems and will for many years to come, will they eventually turn around? Who knows...
Nita
The difference between me and you and more so with Sassberto is that I don't over generalize about everyone else's situation nearly as much. I realize that everyone has their own experiences but I don't try to treat mine as reality for everyone else. So you have a lot of family and friends that have left and I have a lot of family that have stayed and that is what I am pointing out. But I guess if I point out my personal experiance to offer another perspective and to show people that your or other people's experiances are not that of others then that is "taking it personally". I never thought anyone was directing anything at me personally but offered my personal experiance to show the basis of my differing opinion on the topic at hand. Do you get what I am saying there?
The difference between me and you and more so with Sassberto is that I don't over generalize about everyone else's situation nearly as much. I realize that everyone has their own experiences but I don't try to treat mine as reality for everyone else.
You have to realize that I am speaking in generalizations because that is the nature of this type of discussion. Don't be so literal about it. Take it for what it is, add your two cents... but you are getting caught up in playing language laywer and taking meaning that isn't necessarily there.
Obviously some people are doing well and some are not. That is true everywhere. I don't need to re-state that and I don't need to write a disclaimer for every thing I say either. This is not a courtroom or a newspaper and I am held to no journalistic standard when I post here. Most of us are adults and understand that. It's opinion, nothing more nothing less.
The state is having some serious problems that affect *millions* of people and that is just reality. You seem to want to deny it, or at least say that since it doesn't directly impact you or your friends and family, it is not an actual problem. There are more people out of work in california than the entire population of many major US cities. It really *is* a crisis and it is really happening, right now.
You have to realize that I am speaking in generalizations because that is the nature of this type of discussion.
Sure, more so though when you speak in absolutes.
Quote:
Obviously some people are doing well and some are not.
If you've read what a lot of people say about CA it's not really that obvious to many people out there. Some will take one opinion and run with it.
Quote:
That is true everywhere. I don't need to re-state that and I don't need to write a disclaimer for every thing I say either. This is not a courtroom or a newspaper and I am held to no journalistic standard when I post here. Most of us are adults and understand that. It's opinion, nothing more nothing less
When you speak a certain way people take it a certain way. Just as you see me as taking it "personally", which I don't feel I am but I can see why some would think that. Same difference there.
Quote:
The state is having some serious problems that affect *millions* of people and that is just reality. You seem to want to deny it, or at least say that since it doesn't directly impact you or your friends and family, it is not an actual problem. There are more people out of work in california than the entire population of many major US cities. It really *is* a crisis and it is really happening, right now.
Just as you seem to think the sky is falling b/c you and your friends are in a certain situation, same thing. Some will read your doom and gloom assessment and run with that. I am just showing the other side, the other side that is generally more silent on this forum compared to the doom and gloom crowd. Internet forums are an interesting place that don't always reflect reality, people in my situation generally are not on here speaking out against the generalizations and doom and gloom predictions that I am. People that are content like me generally aren't on here arguing like me, especially San Diegan's who tend to be non-confrontational, I'm just argumentative in nature which is pretty obvious. You can say that I'm sugarcoating it but on the flip side I can say you're making it seem worse than it is, same difference there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
