living in cali with nevada residency.. (Fresno, Dixon: crimes, lawyer, school)

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

I never said it could be done legally, ethically or morally.

Using a PMB to try to avoid state resident status so someone can pay zero income tax to California is just as illegal as trying to pay zero to the IRS by setting up a phony residence outside the US.

If you want to do one action to beat the state of California on personal income why not just go all in on the IRS too. Neither is right.

I suggest people just pay for good tax advice and planning to minimize what has to be paid to California and the US. There are legal ways to use without lying about where you choose to live.

You would be OK in most contexts. However the CA FTB is an organization founded on expediency even at the cost of legality. In this case you are not correct. Beating the FTB sometimes requires more than simply telling the whole truth.

[mrmanz]

problem is i dont work in cali at all.. i work online...

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by olecapt

You would be OK in most contexts. However the CA FTB is an organization founded on expediency even at the cost of legality. In this case you are not correct. Beating the FTB sometimes requires more than simply telling the whole truth.

Yes both IRS and FTB along with tax/revenue agencies in other states can be over aggressive.

But that doesn't justify unethical or illegal actions by taxpayers to try to avoid taxes.

If everyone in society decided to behave unethically on everything they did, not just taxes, where would we be?

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

Yes both IRS and FTB along with tax/revenue agencies in other states can be over aggressive.

But that doesn't justify unethical or illegal actions by taxpayers to try to avoid taxes.

If everyone in society decided to behave unethically on everything they did, not just taxes, where would we be?

YOu continue to change the subject. Illegality or ethically challenged is not suggested. It is however routinely practiced by the CA FTB. It is suggested that one protect oneself from that behavior by the FTB.

CA allows such behavior by the FTB because it is cheap and effective. And in doing so they provide the ethical basis for such techniques as remaining invisible.

Runnig a crooked tax collector certainly does not provide CA with the high ground.

[thepinksquid]

Originally Posted by mrmanz

thanks for the responses. Im glad some people understand..

Problem is if i get vacation home in cali, get mail there, license, etc, they will try to come for me for the money... I read up on their laws..

If you live in california, but say you travel a lot and assuming you spent 300 days outside the USA in different countries, and the other 65 days in cali, you still owe cali state taxes on 100% of your income, since you are technically "a resident of california"

This is what im trying to avoid.

Sorry--I was thinking that you spent most of your time outside of CA in other states--however, if all your time spent outside the country than yeah, you'd be a CA resident in the eyes of US taxation.

When I said "vacation home" I didn't mean owning or renting a vacation home per a lease agreement, but staying in one short-term (there's a bunch of homes here for that) here in CA when you wish to come to San Diego. Have your actual residence be in NV then and not own or rent any property here in CA. Do you own property in other countries as well?

[limitup]

Just out of curiosity, how is the FTB crooked? Do they try to collect taxes from people that don't owe taxes? What exactly do they do that's crooked?

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by limitup

Just out of curiosity, how is the FTB crooked? Do they try to collect taxes from people that don't owe taxes? What exactly do they do that's crooked?

well the pet thing is to make up a court decision to use to file a lien against a property or an individual. The only thing that appears is the lien. So you can't get it into court and corrected because there never was such a case. But to get it removed you need to go back to the non-existent court that ordered it.

The famous one was the loss to Hyatt...


California Loses Big in Litigation Involving Its Tax Jurisdiction and Related Residency Audits

[revelated]

Originally Posted by limitup

Just out of curiosity, how is the FTB crooked? Do they try to collect taxes from people that don't owe taxes? What exactly do they do that's crooked?

The problem is that people love California weather, California surf, and California sand...but they don't want to pay to live here. SO people try to circumvent the tax laws. The Franchise Tax Board is quite adept at pursuing people who do this, and that's exactly why I said - there are three ways to avoid it. One is to just disassociate yourself with the state completely. That's the easy answer. The problem is some people want their cake and eat it too - that's not how it works. Either you pay to play, or you keep your money and go elsewhere.

The FTB isn't crooked. Overzealous? Sure. A bit mobbish in their tactics? Absolutely. But everything they do to collect is within the boundaries of state law, and state law governs what you will and won't pay. If you don't agree with it, you essentially forfeit your right to live here. It's just some people are hardheaded.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by revelated

The problem is that people love California weather, California surf, and California sand...but they don't want to pay to live here. SO people try to circumvent the tax laws. The Franchise Tax Board is quite adept at pursuing people who do this, and that's exactly why I said - there are three ways to avoid it. One is to just disassociate yourself with the state completely. That's the easy answer. The problem is some people want their cake and eat it too - that's not how it works. Either you pay to play, or you keep your money and go elsewhere.

The FTB isn't crooked. Overzealous? Sure. A bit mobbish in their tactics? Absolutely. But everything they do to collect is within the boundaries of state law, and state law governs what you will and won't pay. If you don't agree with it, you essentially forfeit your right to live here. It's just some people are hardheaded.

Nonsense. They openly violate statute and admit it. Don't try and sugar coat it. What they do is in fact a violation of the law...often outrageously and deliberately. See Hyatt.

They make the "my cause is just" argument. But that in no way makes their illegal actions legal.

The FTB is absolutely crooked.

Californians are absolutely amazing. The facts are in front of anyone who wants to see them and yet they claim it is not so...It is....you are just going to have to get over it. The State of CA uses illegal and immoral and unethical methods to collect taxes. And what is worse they do it deliberately and systemically. And it continues because it works.

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by olecapt

YOu continue to change the subject. Illegality or ethically challenged is not suggested. It is however routinely practiced by the CA FTB. It is suggested that one protect oneself from that behavior by the FTB.

I change the subject? This thread started on how to live in California but not pay personal income taxes to the state. You have tried to change it to a discussion of practices used by FTB.

I agreed with you that the FTB like many states and the IRS can and do get very aggressive. You even quoted me saying "yes".

But overzealous is not just a California problem.

New York is another state that has pursued income with zeal. They went after all of the income earned by a telecommuter a few years ago, even though he only physically worked in the state 25% of the year.

If you are not familiar also check out the federal tax actions of McWade and Sims for the IRS in Dixon vs. Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Basically they lied while representing the IRS in court.

I just keep coming back to what was originally discussed in the starting post.

I've never disputed that someone can set up a Nevada corporation for the business income. Perfectly legal and a common practice just like New Jersey corporations for reasons besides taxes.

But once someone decides to set up residency somewhere then their personal income should be reported to the state where they live according to its laws, assuming the state has personal income tax.

As you said before

Originally Posted by olecapt

CA does tax its own residents on income made outside the state. So you have to avoid becoming a CA resident or pay the taxes. Note however this is the taxes on the salary paid to the individual...not the corporations taxes.

So for purposes of this thread topic I guess we agree that someone has to decide, either do not move to California or move to California and accept that personal income will be taxable.

But do not try to pretend they are not a resident while in fact actually living here.

Originally Posted by olecapt

And in doing so they provide the ethical basis for such techniques as remaining invisible.

Sorry I disagree. Trying to justify unethical behavior by anyone does not change the fact that it is still unethical. There is no ethical basis to justify these residency actions.