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I read through a dozen pages of threads and quite a few websites before I posted this, and couldn't find direct advice for my slightly unusual circumstances. Any info is appreciated!
I've been stuck in Texas (and hating it) for a decade. I'm 30, single, no kids, and no plans on getting married or kidded. I'm finally in a good financial position to move, and SF sounds like an awesome place to live, but I have questions. Mostly about how it's supposed to be almost 100% higher living cost than Bedford, Texas, where I am now. The bank I do operations/data entry/etc. for has a branch out there I can probably transfer to, and I currently make about $28K a year...after my current bills, I have about $400 a month to put away towards credit card debt. Anyway, my questions:
- Rent - I'm selling almost all my stuff. I want to be free to travel if I change my mind. I'm keeping half of my clothes, my computer, mountain bike and some other vital necessities. I'd be fine living in a studio for $700/month or less. Craigslist had some listings, but I'm still vague on the "good and bad" neighborhoods. I'd like to live alone, and not in a college-flooded complex. I'd prefer to avoid roommates or a room-in-a-house rental, but could do either if necessary. Any thoughts?
- Food - This is my main money concern...is it really that much more expensive? I shop at Walmart and other grocery stores, and spend about $350 a month max on food. Is there anywhere online I can see prices?
- Gas - I own a 2002 Prius hybrid, and only pay for insurance/gas. Is gas more than about the $2.39 per gallon it is right now here?
- Utilities - I *love* the idea of leaving Texas heat...SF's 50-80-ish weather pattern sounds great to me. And I like rain and fog. Will I need to use A/C often? How much might electricity and other utilities cost for a single guy living in a studio?
- Crime and Drugs - I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about crime problems in SF, especially Oakland. I can handle myself, but I'd still like to avoid crime neighborhoods. Also, I'm *really* anti-smoking and anti-drugs...I'm polite to people about it, but I choose not to be anywhere near either if I can help it. I saw some other threads about pot smoking in SF...am I likely to encounter it anywhere in public?
- Biking and Outdoors - Is it possible to live entirely by bike in SF? I love riding, I'd commute here if not for the 100 degree heat. I also love spending time in forests...I saw a lot of parks on the map. Are there a lot of nature places to hike/bike?
- The Ocean - I saw a couple sites suggesting the water's too cold to swim in, even in summer. Is this true? And are there any dangerous sea creatures living near swimming areas?
Thanks a ton for reading my post, and I look forward to any advice anyone can give me! SF's at the top of my places-to-move list!
- Rent - I don't think that you'll ever find a studio for less than $1000/month in the city. The Eastbay (Oakland, Berkeley, etc) is a possibility, but I've never lived over there. The city IS expensive- this isn't just a rumor. Check out craigslist to get an idea. Dangerous neighborhoods- the Tenderloin. Other than that, each neighborhood has its own flavor. the outer sunset and outer richmond tend to be less expensive, but they are farther from the action and public transportation becomes a little more tedious. They are also socked in by fog during the summer.
- Food- everything is expensive in the city, but again, the Eastbay tends to be cheaper. If you want to buy cheap food- Trader Joe's is a good option and they still sell organics- although I'm not sure you care about that if you are shopping at Walmart.
- Utilities I don't think anyone has an air conditioner in the SF Bay Area- maybe in the outer EastBay, but not close to the city. Your biggest expense will be heat and that just depends on you and your unit.
-crime and drugs- If you live in the city- you are moving to a major metropolitan area so it is a bit naive to expect there to be little crime. However, that being said, I feel as though it is a very safe city. It is VERY liberal on pot smoking and you most definitely will come across pot in your adventures. Concerts in the park, out at bars... really anywhere. It doesn't mean that you have to take part, in fact there are plenty of non- smokers in the city, but it will be around.
Gas is above $3 now.
Biking and outdoors- i have many friends who get around on their bikes. there are a lot of hills- if you didn't know. It is a bike friendly city with bike lanes and pro-biking road laws. Between your bike and public transportation you won't need to drive on a daily basis.
The ocean- yes it is very cold all the time, but people still swim on those rare hot days. There are sharks- but usually it is only something the surfers need to be weary of. Swimming is usually limited to the shore line after the waves break. There is a big surf off ocean beach.
I'm leaving SF in a month, but I'm sad to go. It is a great city full of people that want to be here. Good luck!!
- Rent - I'm selling almost all my stuff. I want to be free to travel if I change my mind. I'm keeping half of my clothes, my computer, mountain bike and some other vital necessities. I'd be fine living in a studio for $700/month or less. Craigslist had some listings, but I'm still vague on the "good and bad" neighborhoods. I'd like to live alone, and not in a college-flooded complex. I'd prefer to avoid roommates or a room-in-a-house rental, but could do either if necessary. Any thoughts?
You need to budget about $1000 per mo for rent. You can live by Lake Merrit, Adams Point, or Piedmont Ave with that budget (in Oakland). Nice neighborhoods with lots of rentals that are close to everything and have a good amount of amenities in the neighborhoods. (A bit limited for nightlife though but SF or Downtown Oakland would be quick trips.) In terms or renting rooms, Berkeley has a lot more of that. I'd stick to North Berkeley for room rentals. South Berkeley is either sketchy or full of college students. You can find rooms for rent in Rockridge (Oakland) as well. That's another nice area.
- Food - This is my main money concern...is it really that much more expensive? I shop at Walmart and other grocery stores, and spend about $350 a month max on food. Is there anywhere online I can see prices?
Does your $350 include eating out? Food is a bit more expensive here, but that's enough for sure. I spend about that and tend to upgrade to Whole Foods and the Farmers Market, and eat out for lunch all the time. You can get your groceries to about $200/mo without a lot of effort so you should be fine.
- Utilities - I *love* the idea of leaving Texas heat...SF's 50-80-ish weather pattern sounds great to me. And I like rain and fog. Will I need to use A/C often? How much might electricity and other utilities cost for a single guy living in a studio?
There isn't any AC unless you live in the outer suburbs. So Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, Albany, El Cerrito, SF... no AC available at all.
I spend about $50/mo in a studio in the winter and maybe $20 the rest of the year.
- Crime and Drugs - I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about crime problems in SF, especially Oakland. I can handle myself, but I'd still like to avoid crime neighborhoods. Also, I'm *really* anti-smoking and anti-drugs...I'm polite to people about it, but I choose not to be anywhere near either if I can help it. I saw some other threads about pot smoking in SF...am I likely to encounter it anywhere in public?
Re: Drugs: No you won't, except for a concert. Nothing serious. But smokers need to go outside in CA, so you'll walk by smokers frequently.
People exaggerate about crime in Oakland all of the time. 90% of the crime is concentrated in a few neighborhoods and is gang related. The rest is the minor property crime typical in urban places. So unless you live in a sketchy part of West Oakland or East Oakland, you probably won't encounter anything at all. There are similar places in SF as well, but I'd let an SF person chime in.
I've lived in my place for the past 6 years with no issues. The crime I have heard about in the course of my 6 years: someone's motorcycle got stolen, a ladder got stolen and someone else had their iphone stolen. It is urban, so you need to use basic common sense. But I'm a single female and I walk home from BART (1mi away) without issue at night. I have heard about a few car break-ins around the Lake Merrit area, so people tend to use the club if they park on the street. Don't leave your valuable iPad on the driver's seat overnight and you'll be A-Ok. Many places in Piedmont Ave and Adam's Point have secure parking garages anyway. Garage break-ins are exceedingly rare. I also see quite a few "fancy" cars parked on the street in my neighborhood overnight, so it isn't really a problem.
- Biking and Outdoors - Is it possible to live entirely by bike in SF? I love riding, I'd commute here if not for the 100 degree heat. I also love spending time in forests...I saw a lot of parks on the map. Are there a lot of nature places to hike/bike?
Lots and lots of parks all over the place. There is actually a redwood forest in the middle of Oakland. Many people bike and take transit only. Just keep in mind that if you need to take BART, bikes aren't allowed at the height of commute time. There are mountains, hillside parks and Lakes in the immediate urban portions of Berkeley, Oakland and SF. There are other places in a short drive away. PEople tend to by active nature enthusiasts in the area so you'll fit right in.
- The Ocean - I saw a couple sites suggesting the water's too cold to swim in, even in summer. Is this true? And are there any dangerous sea creatures living near swimming areas?
Yes the water in SF is freezing. If you want to swim at the Beach, you can head to Santa Cruz (1.5 hr drive) or swim in the Bay in Alameda.
I can't and wouldn't if I could touch on all your questions, but many are going to and they will give you all kinds of ideas. Some are legit, many slanted to the way the poster wants to see things.
1-rent: it is going to be hard, if you want a safe area probably a $1000 a month will be as low as you will get.
Food: you can eat on $350 a month if you use common sense and shop farmers markets, stores that sell over stocks and just simply watch the ads. It isn't going to leave room for many meals out.
Utilities: they will be 1/2 or more than 1/2 of what you are paying now.
swimming; it is true, the water is much different than that off the coast of Texas or the Atlantic ocean. Even in So Ca it can be very chilly. There is almost no way you will enjoy swimming in the bay area ocean.
Crime and drugs are not that much different than anyplace else in the country. Yes, there is a lot of pot smoking but other drugs, similar to what you see in the DFW metro area. The biggest difference, they are a bit more accepted in California. As you already know, it is one of the most liberal states in the country.
Hope this is a little bit of info for you to digest. Good luck, but I would say your income, if you can't increase it, will make living in San Francisco tight.
San Francisco sounds like the last place you want to be! You should go to either San Diego, Los Angeles, or San Jose!! San Francisco sounds more like a place you want to visit and vacation to.
Rent: I agree with others. Budget at least $1000 per month for rent, maybe more in San Francisco proper.
Food: You can check out the prices for Safeway at their web site. Safeway would be considered a mid range grocery store. I don't think there are any WalMarts in San Francisco, and probably not in Oakland or Berkeley, either. People here rave about Trader Joes. I like it for some things, too. But I don't think they're as cheap as people say they are. Maybe compared to Whole Foods, but not compared to the kind of grocery stores where you shop in TX.
Gas: in San Jose where I live is currently $3.06 per gallon, and that's at the cheap stations. San Francisco's and Oakland's gas is typically more expensive.
Utilities: Rates here are higher, but the mild climate means actually heating and cooling costs are low. People in SF and the inner East Bay typically don't have air conditioning. Even in the warmer, South Bay, where I live, a lot of poeple don't have AC (myself included). Utility bills for my studio apartment (combined gas/electric) have never been more than $30 in a month. Last month my bill was just under $13.
Crime & Drugs: Crime rates in SF are about average for a big city. Oakland has much higher crime rates. I will defer to Oakland residents about crime being concentrated in a few neighborhoods. Since they live there, they know better than I do. Drug use (especially pot) is more tolerated than other places. I don't personally like this, but have not had a problem finding friends who aren't into that stuff. Smoking rates are pretty low and you aren't allowed to smoke--not even in bars.
Biking: In theory, it's possible to live in places like SF, Oakland, & Berkeley using just a bike and mass transit. But a lot of people find they don't want to. It can rain a lot in winter, making biking icky. It also depends on where your friends live. People tend to come and go, and sometimes you can end up with friends scattered throughout the area, making a bike/transit only lifestyle difficult. Also, people like to go on excursions down to Santa Cruz or up to Napa Valley, which pretty much require a car.
The Ocean: Pretty to look at, but you won't want to swim in it. It is cold by the beach in SF for much of the year (low 60s and foggy even in the summer). It is typically warmer in Santa Cruz 1.5 hours to the south (typically in the 70s half the year and high 50s or 60s the other half). That's warm weather by NorCal beach community standards. The ocean water is only a notch warmer in Santa Cruz than in SF.
IMPORTANT: Don't forget the lifestyle factor!: This is the one factor you might overlook. There will be MANY more spending opportunities than you will have in a place like TX. There are lots of high income people here living payday to payday, so be very careful!!! Single people in the Bay Area tend to blow a lot of money on fun stuff. I don't know what your income would be, but even if it is doubling to, say 56K per year, you might not be able to truly afford a lot of the stuff you see other people doing. Single folks like going out to eat, taking excursions to Napa Valley, Lake Tahoe, Santa Cruz, Monterey, etc. This stuff costs money. There will be lots of peole in the area who either make more than you or live as if they do. And it can be frustrating to say "No, I can't afford that" all the time. Now, a lot of this depends on the kind of person you are. But most people succumb to the spending patterns of those around them, even if they can't afford to. Some people have no problem hooking up with other folks of like mind and don't mind saying no to the nice extras. But it can be frustrating for those with the area's median income or below who come here without an extended family network for built-in social activities.
You can find studios for $650-$1000 but they are VERY rare and hard to get. Most of them are more like $1000-1200 a month.
An alternative would be living with roommates which would be more like $650-800 a month at least.
For biking, I don't really like biking in SF because the city is very windy and hilly which makes it that much more difficult. Cars are everywhere and even on streets with bike lanes they drive very close to you and can be dangerous. I used to live in Chicago and I preferred biking there because you could ride on quiet side streets to avoid traffic, and SF has about the same amount of traffic on all streets, also Chicago has handy bike lanes on the lake that are in parks so you are nowhere near cars. On the other hand you can ride yearround in SF (except when it is raining in winter) which is a plus.
Thanks for the info, everybody! Good stuff to know. By an amazing coincidence, it turns out one of my best friends was simultaneously planning to move to SF too, so we may end up combining our finances to get a 2 bedroom apartment, share utilities, etc.
I'm kind of puzzled about the rent - when I search Craigslist for apartments between $1 and $700, I get dozens of ads for studios, even some 1 bedroom apartments. I know some of them must be fake ads just trying to get me to send money to Nigeria or somewhere, but there are too many for them all to be fake. Have you guys just never apartment shopped on there, or am I missing something? Few of them are near downtown SF, which is fine by me...it turns out my friend and I were both aiming for North Berkeley.
I'm also honestly not a big spender...I eat out maybe once every week or two, I don't do much social stuff you can't do for free (going hiking/biking/swimming etc. with friends). I go to the movies maybe every two or three months. I've never been into the nightlife or club scene, and I don't drink. So I'm hoping I can live a lot more cheaply than would be expected for a normal person. I've worked graveyard shift the last 6 years, so except for various girlfriends, it made it hard to have a social life. Hooray for the modern techno-hermit!
Anyways, I'm going to keep aiming for SF...thanks again for your advice, and if anyone else has some, feel free to chip in!
- Rent - I'm selling almost all my stuff. I want to be free to travel if I change my mind. I'm keeping half of my clothes, my computer, mountain bike and some other vital necessities. I'd be fine living in a studio for $700/month or less. Craigslist had some listings, but I'm still vague on the "good and bad" neighborhoods. I'd like to live alone, and not in a college-flooded complex. I'd prefer to avoid roommates or a room-in-a-house rental, but could do either if necessary. Any thoughts?
You are in for a big reality check. You won't find any apartments in SF for that cheap. I would expect to pay double just for a place in a sketchy neighborhood. SF isn't as expensive as Manhattan, but it's damn close.
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- Food - This is my main money concern...is it really that much more expensive? I shop at Walmart and other grocery stores, and spend about $350 a month max on food. Is there anywhere online I can see prices?
There are no Wal-Marts in the city of San Francisco. There are only a handful in the Bay Area. Food is a lot more expensive out here. Mostly because of the high costs of fuel. And when you get to SF, the prices get even more jacked by the mom-and-pop markets and the places selling "organic".
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- Gas - I own a 2002 Prius hybrid, and only pay for insurance/gas. Is gas more than about the $2.39 per gallon it is right now here?
I paid $3.40 last week. Check GasBuddy.com and put in San Francisco. Right now it lists gas between $3.09 and $3.49, with most stations in the $3.23 range. OUCH! They tax the heck out of gas in this state.
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- Utilities - I *love* the idea of leaving Texas heat...SF's 50-80-ish weather pattern sounds great to me. And I like rain and fog. Will I need to use A/C often? How much might electricity and other utilities cost for a single guy living in a studio?
You don't see A/C units often out here, and when you see them they are usually off. In SF if you want A/C you open the window and let the cold air in. That said, utilities overall are more expensive here. We have a lot of taxes out here that drive up the price of energy.
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- Crime and Drugs - I've heard a lot of conflicting stories about crime problems in SF, especially Oakland. I can handle myself, but I'd still like to avoid crime neighborhoods. Also, I'm *really* anti-smoking and anti-drugs...I'm polite to people about it, but I choose not to be anywhere near either if I can help it. I saw some other threads about pot smoking in SF...am I likely to encounter it anywhere in public?
If you are anti-smoking, you will love SF. They don't let people smoke anywhere in this city except your home. If you are anti-pot smoking, you will hate SF. Pot is practically legal here and you will see it smoked out in public all the time. Seriously, all the time. People don't mind it out here. As for crime - SF isn't much different than other big cities, but on your budget, you'll definitely be exposed to it. The difference between Oakland and SF in terms of crime is the difference between day and night. Oakland's reputation has been earned.
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- Biking and Outdoors - Is it possible to live entirely by bike in SF? I love riding, I'd commute here if not for the 100 degree heat. I also love spending time in forests...I saw a lot of parks on the map. Are there a lot of nature places to hike/bike?
You can do it, but it isn't easy. There are 50-degree hills here. It's not an easy city to get around. There is a lot of nature/places to bike, especially outside of the city. But to move here without a car is a major impediment.
Quote:
- The Ocean - I saw a couple sites suggesting the water's too cold to swim in, even in summer. Is this true? And are there any dangerous sea creatures living near swimming areas?
The ocean is bone cold. Yesterday a catamaran capsized in the Bay and it was a major news story because the coast guard had to rescue the boaters. They were in the ocean less than an hour and showed symptoms of hypothermia. If you want to swim out here you will want a thick wetsuit (minimum 1/2 inch). And if you go up to Stinson Beach or down to Santa Cruz, you will be swimming with seals and might just be one of the annual great white shark attack victims. In Santa Cruz, you can go into the surfing museum at Lighthouse point and see a surfboard with a giant shark bite out of it. Just a few miles north at the Farallon Islands is one of the largest concentrations of great white sharks in the world. You can pay a company to go down in a cage. Fun!
San Francisco is a wonderful city - it's beautiful, the people are incredible tolerant of any social deviation, the restaurants are world-class and everywhere, and it has a terrain unlike any other US city. BUT - it is crazy expensive to live here. Crazy expensive. The cost is something that is very hard to explain to out-of-towners, but it's a combination of ridiculous taxes (9% to the state), high energy costs, ridiculous real estate/rental expenses, and a society built around providing A-level services to the rich. The number of people moving from the Bay Area to Texas is astounding. In fact, I'm moving to Austin next month!
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Will I need to use A/C often? How much might electricity and other utilities cost for a single guy living in a studio?
