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Old 10-29-2010, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 7,692,127 times
Reputation: 1802

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One thing I have noticed is that to ask a question like this on other forums such as "City vs City" creates such an intense reaction by some New Yorkers that they go into an orbit of anger and denial. One thing I have come to realize is that San Francisco is probably the most progressive city in America and in things like environmentalism, human rights, economic justice, politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City. I am surprised how conservative New York actually is. In California the major metro areas like the Bay Area and Los Angeles have tremendous influence on the state. One would think that as small as New York state is in population that NYC would totally dominate the state but it does not and suggests that overall New York is much less progressive than many people would have thought.

 
Old 10-29-2010, 12:47 AM
 
Location: SoCAL. Where life is infinitely better.
128 posts, read 112,428 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
One thing I have noticed is that to ask a question like this on other forums such as "City vs City" creates such an intense reaction by some New Yorkers that they go into an orbit of anger and denial. One thing I have come to realize is that San Francisco is probably the most progressive city in America and in things like environmentalism, human rights, economic justice, politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City. I am surprised how conservative New York actually is. In California the major metro areas like the Bay Area and Los Angeles have tremendous influence on the state. One would think that as small as New York state is in population that NYC would totally dominate the state but it does not and suggests that overall New York is much less progressive than many people would have thought.

Actually Utah is probably the most "progressive" state in the country. At least when it comes to the marriage issue. California is still stuck on the same sex marriage question, while Utah has been pushing the next step in the marriage issue -- legalized polygamy -- forward for years.

How exactly is SF progressive on the human rights issue? Have they publicly denounced Israel for the Human Rights violations in Palestine? Such as dropping white phosphorus on hospitals in Gaza? Have they enacted trade sanctions against China in response to the Tibetan issue? Seems to me when all the Tibetans came out from the East Bay to protest China during the 2008 Beijing Olympics torch running event, there was an ARMY OF SAN FRAN RED BRAINWASHED CHINESE waiting to beat the crap out of them.

Economic justice? Realllly? How so? SF is one of the most gentrified communities in the entire country. How exactly is SF promoting and creating "economic justice"?

"Politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City"? Wow, what a general statement. Progressive politics? What exactly has SF done in that regard? They can't even agree on how to solve their own homeless problem...

Sorry. Sounds like you're blowing a lot of hot air to me. California is a majority conservative state...



It would be best to really TRY to educate yourself before responding with propagandized statements that have bearing on reality. Thank you.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 02:21 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
3,883 posts, read 5,379,547 times
Reputation: 3196
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
One thing I have noticed is that to ask a question like this on other forums such as "City vs City" creates such an intense reaction by some New Yorkers that they go into an orbit of anger and denial. One thing I have come to realize is that San Francisco is probably the most progressive city in America and in things like environmentalism, human rights, economic justice, politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City. I am surprised how conservative New York actually is. In California the major metro areas like the Bay Area and Los Angeles have tremendous influence on the state. One would think that as small as New York state is in population that NYC would totally dominate the state but it does not and suggests that overall New York is much less progressive than many people would have thought.
It's interesting to see how Californians and San Franciscans continually ignore places like Portland and Seattle. I think folks in Portland would argue that they are fairly progressive. I find politics in SF to be one big cesspool, with supervisors constantly stabbing each other in the back, jockeying for power, etc. Read any SF paper for a while and you'll see its city government is somewhat dysfunctional.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 04:37 AM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,315 posts, read 7,810,977 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBayDefector View Post
Sorry. Sounds like you're blowing a lot of hot air to me. California is a majority conservative state...



It would be best to really TRY to educate yourself before responding with propagandized statements that have bearing on reality. Thank you.
You do realize that just because most of that map is red, it doesn't mean that CA is majority conservative, right? Most of CA's population falls into the blue areas. CA does have a strong conservative presence, especially inland, but CA is NOT a conservative state.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Here and There
2,539 posts, read 3,234,810 times
Reputation: 3761
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBayDefector View Post
Actually Utah is probably the most "progressive" state in the country. At least when it comes to the marriage issue. California is still stuck on the same sex marriage question, while Utah has been pushing the next step in the marriage issue -- legalized polygamy -- forward for years.

How exactly is SF progressive on the human rights issue? Have they publicly denounced Israel for the Human Rights violations in Palestine? Such as dropping white phosphorus on hospitals in Gaza? Have they enacted trade sanctions against China in response to the Tibetan issue? Seems to me when all the Tibetans came out from the East Bay to protest China during the 2008 Beijing Olympics torch running event, there was an ARMY OF SAN FRAN RED BRAINWASHED CHINESE waiting to beat the crap out of them.

Economic justice? Realllly? How so? SF is one of the most gentrified communities in the entire country. How exactly is SF promoting and creating "economic justice"?

"Politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City"? Wow, what a general statement. Progressive politics? What exactly has SF done in that regard? They can't even agree on how to solve their own homeless problem...

Sorry. Sounds like you're blowing a lot of hot air to me. California is a majority conservative state...



It would be best to really TRY to educate yourself before responding with propagandized statements that have bearing on reality. Thank you.
Okay, I just about spit my coffee out when you stated that UTAH is the most "progressive" states. Seriously? Polygamy is ILLEGAL in the United States, just in case you didn't get the memo. No offense to people from Utah, but it's one of the least progressive states in the union. You have to "join" a club to have an alcoholic beverage, and even then the alcohol is minimal and there is a limit to how much of it you can drink. You, my friend are confused, at best. NYC is a phenomenal city, no doubt. But, San Francisco has a lot going for it as well, it's just too bad you are too pompous to see it. Something of a Napolean complex I assume.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: New York City
675 posts, read 934,481 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorhaggar View Post
I have only been to NYC once and it was only for 3 days with a long job interview. (they lost my paperwork and I didn't get the job. ) I'd like to try and visit again for longer sometime next Spring, I went in May last time and the weather was perfect.

Pretty amazing architecture there though there are also a lot more ugly buildings than in SF. It didn't reallys strike me as crowded but then I didn't have to ride the subway to work. SF always strikes me as crowded. Public transit is better there which is a plus. Weather sounds pretty horrible though. People there always seem to complain about the living conditions in NY--horrible overpriced apartments--but I don't know how much of that is New Yorkers complaining. Everyone I've known from NY liked to complain...

I lived in Chicago for a couple of years before moving to SF and I really liked it except for the weather. It is a lot more spread out than SF so it's easier to have a car there, but the public transit is more reliable than in SF...but it's so much bigger that it takes longer to get anywhere on public transit. SF is just more walkable and dense. In terms of layout most of Chicago is a lot more like Oakland than SF--much more houses with bigger lots (but still pretty small lots) with some apartment buildings mixed in, and more spread out. In terms of stuff to do Chicago and SF are pretty even. SF has a certain vibrancy that you don't get in Chicago, but Chicago feels more relaxed because you can go out to eat or drink and not have to deal with massive noisy crowds at any place that is worth eating at like you do in SF.

Something I really like about SF and the Bay Area that you never see in big eastern cities is how wild and untamed it is. Yes it's mostly built up but SF has places like the trails in Lincoln Park that are pretty wild, and give you great views of the Marin Headlands which are beautiful and undeveloped. In Chicago a similar view would be of Gary Indiana.
Trust me, NYC is WAY more crowded than SF. Living there my first 36 years, I didn't notice it as much, it was just a normal way of life. But then I moved to SF (lived there from 1999-2006), and noticed how uncrowded it is compared to NYC. Then I moved back to NYC in 2006, and was overwhelmed as to how crowded it really is. Some streets you can't even walk down without someone bumping into you (like near Penn Station, my god it's crowded). It's no wonder people always look angry in NY, there always seems to be someone in your way.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: SoCAL. Where life is infinitely better.
128 posts, read 112,428 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah View Post
You do realize that just because most of that map is red, it doesn't mean that CA is majority conservative, right? Most of CA's population falls into the blue areas. CA does have a strong conservative presence, especially inland, but CA is NOT a conservative state.
While it may not be technically majority conservative, I think it's much more conservative than people think. We have a large military presence here, and large rural areas too. The state voted YES on PROP 8 for God's sake!!!
 
Old 10-29-2010, 10:03 AM
 
794 posts, read 1,473,915 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttocs99 View Post
Trust me, NYC is WAY more crowded than SF. Living there my first 36 years, I didn't notice it as much, it was just a normal way of life. But then I moved to SF (lived there from 1999-2006), and noticed how uncrowded it is compared to NYC. Then I moved back to NYC in 2006, and was overwhelmed as to how crowded it really is. Some streets you can't even walk down without someone bumping into you (like near Penn Station, my god it's crowded). It's no wonder people always look angry in NY, there always seems to be someone in your way.

Yes this is true, last Saturday night it was absolutely jam packed! It was about as busy as Union Sqaure SF on new years eve.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: SoCAL. Where life is infinitely better.
128 posts, read 112,428 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyegirl View Post
Okay, I just about spit my coffee out when you stated that UTAH is the most "progressive" states. Seriously? Polygamy is ILLEGAL in the United States, just in case you didn't get the memo. No offense to people from Utah, but it's one of the least progressive states in the union. You have to "join" a club to have an alcoholic beverage, and even then the alcohol is minimal and there is a limit to how much of it you can drink. You, my friend are confused, at best. NYC is a phenomenal city, no doubt. But, San Francisco has a lot going for it as well, it's just too bad you are too pompous to see it. Something of a Napolean complex I assume.

The Utah reference was kind of a joke. Progressiveness is all about context. I knew SFers would beat their chest on the Gay marriage issue. The next step in the marriage issue is obviously polygamy. Gay sexual relationships were once seen as being morally wrong, they are not seen that way as much anymore. Group sexual relationships are currently seen as being morally wrong, but at some point they may not be seen that way anymore too, so polygamy will be the next step. I have no problem with either gay or polygamist marriage BTW.

"You have to "join" a club to have an alcoholic beverage, and even then the alcohol is minimal and there is a limit to how much of it you can drink."

Look what has been done to tobacco use in this state in the name of health. Liberal progressives have banned smoking in every possible public place they could. It wouldn't surprise me if alcohol is next. Utah would then be in the forefront of alcohol use regulation. Again, it's all about context.

The Israel-Palestine/Tibet-China issues were not a joke. Human rights tragedies in the world that SF has done nothing about.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 7,692,127 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBayDefector View Post
Actually Utah is probably the most "progressive" state in the country. At least when it comes to the marriage issue. California is still stuck on the same sex marriage question, while Utah has been pushing the next step in the marriage issue -- legalized polygamy -- forward for years.

How exactly is SF progressive on the human rights issue? Have they publicly denounced Israel for the Human Rights violations in Palestine? Such as dropping white phosphorus on hospitals in Gaza? Have they enacted trade sanctions against China in response to the Tibetan issue? Seems to me when all the Tibetans came out from the East Bay to protest China during the 2008 Beijing Olympics torch running event, there was an ARMY OF SAN FRAN RED BRAINWASHED CHINESE waiting to beat the crap out of them.

Economic justice? Realllly? How so? SF is one of the most gentrified communities in the entire country. How exactly is SF promoting and creating "economic justice"?

"Politics, etc that it is light years ahead of New York City"? Wow, what a general statement. Progressive politics? What exactly has SF done in that regard? They can't even agree on how to solve their own homeless problem...

Sorry. Sounds like you're blowing a lot of hot air to me. California is a majority conservative state...



It would be best to really TRY to educate yourself before responding with propagandized statements that have bearing on reality. Thank you.
Nice try but old and out-dated. Maybe you were thinking of the good ole days in Texas or Orange county. Take a good look; that red Republican pimple in Southern California is Orange county. Even your county is Democratic

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