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Old 11-11-2010, 06:02 PM
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,598 posts, read 53,217,657 times
Reputation: 14516


So is this on top of the bridges? Or do people who commute by bridge get to avoid the fees? Maybe we'll be able to pay via Fastrack?

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/11/10/ba-congestion111_SFCG1289447684_part6.jpg (broken link)
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/11/10/ba-congestion111_SFCG1289447684_part6.jpg (broken link)

[LEFT]-- Charge motorists $6 to leave the northeast sector between 3:30 and 6:30 p.m. The area roughly would be bordered by the northeast waterfront, Laguna Street on the west and 18th Street on the south. Among the affected neighborhoods would be South of Market, the Financial District, Union Square, Civic Center, Hayes Valley, the Mission, Chinatown, North Beach, Cathedral Hill, Mission Bay and Potrero Hill.

-- Charge $3 in each direction to cross San Francisco's southern border at Interstate 280, Highway 101, Skyline Boulevard (http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/California_State_Route_35 - broken link), Lake Merced Boulevard, San Jose Avenue, Mission Street, Geneva Avenue, Junipero Serra Boulevard (http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/Junipero_Serra_Boulevard - broken link) and Bayshore Boulevard from 6:30 to 9:30 a.m. and 3:30 to 6:30 p.m.

-- Charge to cross the southern border and include an extra fee to park in private lots in the northeast sector during the peak commute times. The exact cost for this hybrid version has not been determined, but likely would have a cumulative cap of about $6.

Read more: S.F. may hit drivers with variety of tolls

Sounds really confusing.[/LEFT]
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:18 PM
2,497 posts, read 4,571,393 times
Reputation: 3124
This plan is INSANE beyond belief even for San Francisco! Suppose you are living in Lower Pacific Heights or Japantown and you want to go to the Whole Foods on California & Franklin or the Cala Supermarket on California at 4:30 pm to get some dinner. So you would have to pay $6 to drive a few blocks in your own neighborhood just to go to the store?! This plan would have a devastating effect on businesses on the boundaries of the charge zone.

The southern boundary is equally ridiculous. If I want to go to the Trader Joes in Daly City to pick up some food it will cost me to enter & leave the city at dinnertime!

An infinite number of examples on how this would wreck business can be thought of. Just suppose you are living in the Crocker Amazon neighborhood and you take your kid to the Taekwondo school at 6000 Mission Ave. in Daly City. So you drive six blocks to the school and come back an hour later to pick up your kid. So you have entered and exited the city twice and will end up paying $12 in toll charges!

Last edited by capoeira; 11-11-2010 at 07:37 PM..
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Location: USA
16,622 posts, read 16,305,149 times
Reputation: 12583
Who elects these idiots?
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:23 PM
Location: The Bay
6,920 posts, read 11,912,323 times
Reputation: 3043
wtf? That's retarded.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Location: South Korea
5,242 posts, read 11,153,565 times
Reputation: 2931
Supposedly this has worked out well in London but seems like it would be really complicated to set up fare checking at every single intersection at the boundaries of these fare areas.

I'd be up for a wacky idea that increased funding for public transit and reduced traffic, but honestly it seems like traffic, bridge tolls and the cost of parking are already pretty big incentives to get people to avoid driving to downtown SF.

Traffic is heavy but it's not total gridlock. The one thing that needs improvement is the speed of Muni buses, which stop at every single block and are always totally full. Everyone I know who rides Muni buses to work complain about it, people who ride BART and Muni Metro don't have as much to complain about (at least when Muni Metro is actually running) They should cut stops and run more express buses. What would be great is to designate certain crosstown streets as bus-only and bike-only, at least during commute hours, but that will probably never happen because even SF is totally beholden to car drivers.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:58 PM
2,958 posts, read 5,512,610 times
Reputation: 1406
This proposal is just straight idiotic. They must really not want people to come to SF, period. SF gov't desperately needs an overhaul. Man it makes me sick what these idiots have done and are trying to do to this place.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:08 AM
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,166 posts, read 21,445,966 times
Reputation: 8339
What the hell???

I'm not sure if this would even be legal. Wouldn't this restrict free movement within the country? I know states can't do that and I'm pretty sure cities can't either.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:23 AM
334 posts, read 920,254 times
Reputation: 233
First a ban on happy meal toys, now oppressive tolls, and I also heard on the news this evening, that there is a petition going around to put a measure on the next city ballot to ban circumcision on all males under age 18. If a doctor gives a newborn a circumcision, they would get a 1k fine.

I really enjoy many aspects of SF, but the local government supervisors are complete nut jobs. I just don't get how these people get away w/ their ridiculous bans, ordinances, fines, and rules...while ignoring the biggest wart on the city...homelessness. It's out of control with the spending (over 20k per year per homeless person) on worthless programs that only seem to make the problem worse, and NOTHING is being done to improve the quality of life for the residents who live and/or work in San Francisco.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:23 AM
2,332 posts, read 3,454,083 times
Reputation: 1898
What I don't get is how these people get elected. I just read an article that San Francisco voters voted quite moderately in the past election, shooting down a broad variety of measures that would have added more taxes, fees, and regulations in various aspects of their lives. It seems there are a lot more yuppies than hippes in the city these days, and their voting records and attitudes are not the radical leftists of years past (who still exist in much smaller minorities). I know people from all walks of life who live in SF, and most of them have pretty typical corporate jobs and pretty moderate political attitudes. The supes don't seem to reflect the average resident of the city IMO, so how are they staying in power?

I think the answer is that most people just laugh them off and don't care enough about these issues to change things. When I talk to people about the happy meal restrictions, they could care less. It's not that big a deal, because who even eats McDonald's in San Francisco? I'm sure most people living in SF won't care too much about this traffic fee proposal either, because they rarely leave city limits and tend to commute within the city by public transit anyway. These things don't really affect the residents enough to motivate them to dump the supes. We just look from the outside in and laugh at their bizarre ideas, but most city dwellers are too busy going to work, grabbing cocktails after work, hanging out in the park on Sundays, standing in line at trendy ice cream and coffee places, etc. to really care about this sort of stuff.

I do think this traffic fee system would be pretty much impossible to regulate and enforce. You can't have border controls set up everywhere, and not everyone would have a transponder debiting their accounts. Also, what if you circled the block 10 times looking for parking, right at the fee boundary? You could end up paying $60 in ten minutes. The whole thing is so impractical as to be all but impossible.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 4,964,202 times
Reputation: 2294
I doubt this will pass, most people would be against it
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