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Old 12-07-2010, 11:38 PM
 
81 posts, read 162,158 times
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Well, the point was that making such a broad and bold statement without any reasoning behind it makes the statement have no value. It is like when someone gives you the answer: "just because."
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,537 posts, read 23,696,463 times
Reputation: 8812
Quote:
Originally Posted by calbear11 View Post
Well, the point was that making such a broad and bold statement without any reasoning behind it makes the statement have no value. It is like when someone gives you the answer: "just because."
Oh I know, I was just being facetious
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,620,727 times
Reputation: 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
It's great to see such fire from Oakland. This is the type of fire that may eventually let Oakland schools compete with the rest of the U.S.

Oh and you will be the first donating $100,000.00 to Students First.org right? HA HA HA

We know why Oakland's school scores overall are lower. Some of the lower income neighborhoods did not score as high. It is hard to focus on Math when you are dodging bullets, trying to say no to joining a gang, and hoping your mom doesn't O.D. after visiting your dad in jail. Those, even though they are stereotypes, are VALID REASONS and those are REAL CONCERNS for some of the tougher neighborhood kids. They have a lot on their plate at a young age. They have seen a lot of bad things they shouldn't have. Studying is not a priority and many parents do not make it one. They are happy the kid is attending classes.

It is a battle to get my children to do homework and we live in a very lovely neighborhood with low crime (it helps to have a Sheriff and a Highway Patrol officer living on your street, but our school scored over 930 this year with a outlook of 945. I still have to nag my kids to do their homework.

So what is Mission Viejo's reason to have such lousy scores? You keep telling us how it is superior to Oakland all around. So why can't they get their schools straight? There should be NO OTHER concerns in the entire city other than that. Because you paint it like a Paradise.

You would think it is nicer than La Canada-Flintridge or Bradbury. HA HA HA
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,620,727 times
Reputation: 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
Oakland is actually less affordable than San Francisco when it comes to housing and income.

Oakland Median Income (2008): $48,596
Oakland Median Median Home Price 2008 (owner occupied): $578,800
Home Price/Income Ratio (2008): 11.91

San Francisco Median Income (2008): $71,957
San Francisco Home Median Price 2008 (owner occupied): $821,800
Home Price/Income Ratio (2008): 11.4

Oakland isn't going to be a "great" city until the disparity between the haves and have-nots in the city closes.

Well take into consideration that MANY people who live in Oakland WORK in SF and that takes care of the pesky ratio. Heck, I have a ton of friends who work in the City and we live about 25 miles away. Thank God for BART.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 4,841,825 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2
We know why Oakland's school scores overall are lower. Some of the lower income neighborhoods did not score as high. It is hard to focus on Math when you are dodging bullets, trying to say no to joining a gang, and hoping your mom doesn't O.D. after visiting your dad in jail. Those, even though they are stereotypes, are VALID REASONS and those are REAL CONCERNS for some of the tougher neighborhood kids. They have a lot on their plate at a young age. They have seen a lot of bad things they shouldn't have. Studying is not a priority and many parents do not make it one. They are happy the kid is attending classes.
I completely agree. The high crime is a worry for younger kids in the city. It's tought to think about exams when you could get "jumped" or robbed walking down the street to class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
So what is Mission Viejo's reason to have such lousy scores?
I don't know why you chose to make this about MV, but okay I'll entertain your incorrect assumption about MV schools.

First, there's nothing wrong with Mission Viejo's schools.

MV schools graduate 94% of the students who go through the public school system. The U.S average is slightly above 80%. I think outperforming the country by 14% is considered very good, especially when you consider that Oakland is only graduating 73.32% (7 % below the U.S average).

As for scores, what scores are you specifically talking about?
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 4,841,825 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
Well take into consideration that MANY people who live in Oakland WORK in SF and that takes care of the pesky ratio. Heck, I have a ton of friends who work in the City and we live about 25 miles away. Thank God for BART.
What does that even mean? Are you saying for the "few" people who are able to get high paying jobs in S.F, that Oakland is a paradise? You do realize that if you are able to get a high paying job in S.F, that's a rarity and not part of the norm. So celebrate if you want, but with a city that is on the verge of 20% poverty, you're not among many who can.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,620,727 times
Reputation: 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
First, there's nothing wrong with Mission Viejo's schools.

MV schools graduate 94% of the students who go through the public school system. The U.S average is slightly above 80%. I think outperforming the country by 14% is considered very good, especially when you consider that Oakland is only graduating 73.32% (7 % below the U.S average).
The graduation rate is not that important if you have a bunch of kids graduating with a D average. That is nothing to brag about. What have they really learned compared to other school districts? The only way to know where the kids are regarding learning is by THEIR TEST SCORES. What company do they use for their coursework?
Quote:



As for scores, what scores are you specifically talking about?
These, your schools do not score as well overall as Oakland's schools that were listed. How many schools are in Mission Viejo and why are they not ALL on the 900+ list???


Oakland Unified School District, schools with an API of 900+, 2010: 12

Elementary 900+
Montclair Elementary 967
Hillcrest Elementary 964
Thornhill Elementary 956
Lincoln Elementary 953
Chabot Elementary 941
Crocker Highlands Elementary 922
Cleveland Elementary 911

Middle School 900+
American Indian Public Middle 988
American Indian Public Middle II 974
Oakland Charter Academy Middle 954

High School 900+
American Indian Public High 976
Oakland Charter High 961

Compared to...

Saddleback Valley Unified School District, schools with an API of 900+, 2010: 8(only 1 in Mission Viejo proper)

Elementary API 900+
Portola Hills Elementary 925
De Portola Elementary 919(only one located in Mission Viejo)
Melinda Heights Elementary 917
Trabuco Mesa Elementary 917
Foothill Ranch Elementary 911
Lake Forest Elementary 901
Robinson Elementary 901

Middle School API 900+
Rancho Santa Margarita Intermediate 905(Not in Mission Viejo)


High School API 900+
None
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,620,727 times
Reputation: 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
What does that even mean? Are you saying for the "few" people who are able to get high paying jobs in S.F, that Oakland is a paradise? You do realize that if you are able to get a high paying job in S.F, that's a rarity and not part of the norm. So celebrate if you want, but with a city that is on the verge of 20% poverty, you're not among many who can.

An Executive Assistant to the president of a company with 500 employees in San Francisco makes MORE MONEY then the same job in Oakland or other bay area cities.
Working in the city downtown pays more money then working Peninsula, Marin, East Bay, only the South Bay is similar. This is just an example, but SF pays even more when you get into the professional careers. It means the money goes further when you live outside the city. The commute is worth it to many people.

Executive Assistant - San Francisco, CA 94111 $47,453
Executive Assistant -Oakland 94612 $45,734
Executive Assistant - San Jose, $47,243
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
3,774 posts, read 6,251,516 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
The graduation rate is not that important if you have a bunch of kids graduating with a D average. That is nothing to brag about. What have they really learned compared to other school districts? The only way to know where the kids are regarding learning is by THEIR TEST SCORES. What company do they use for their coursework?

These, your schools do not score as well overall as Oakland's schools that were listed. How many schools are in Mission Viejo and why are they not ALL on the 900+ list???


Oakland Unified School District, schools with an API of 900+, 2010: 12

Elementary 900+
Montclair Elementary 967
Hillcrest Elementary 964
Thornhill Elementary 956
Lincoln Elementary 953
Chabot Elementary 941
Crocker Highlands Elementary 922
Cleveland Elementary 911

Middle School 900+
American Indian Public Middle 988
American Indian Public Middle II 974
Oakland Charter Academy Middle 954

High School 900+
American Indian Public High 976
Oakland Charter High 961

Compared to...

Saddleback Valley Unified School District, schools with an API of 900+, 2010: 8(only 1 in Mission Viejo proper)

Elementary API 900+
Portola Hills Elementary 925
De Portola Elementary 919(only one located in Mission Viejo)
Melinda Heights Elementary 917
Trabuco Mesa Elementary 917
Foothill Ranch Elementary 911
Lake Forest Elementary 901
Robinson Elementary 901

Middle School API 900+
Rancho Santa Margarita Intermediate 905(Not in Mission Viejo)


High School API 900+
None
Ouch. Nice find. And sort of embarrassing for him. Let's go down in to the Orange County forum and tell unsuspecting travelers NOT to move to Mission Viejo because it's public schools are lacking... oh that's right, we have lives.

Knowing the sort of psycho we're dealing with, I'm sure he's digging through anything he can find so he can continue playing.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 4,841,825 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
The graduation rate is not that important if you have a bunch of kids graduating with a D average. That is nothing to brag about. What have they really learned compared to other school districts? The only way to know where the kids are regarding learning is by THEIR TEST SCORES. What company do they use for their coursework?

These, your schools do not score as well overall as Oakland's schools that were listed. How many schools are in Mission Viejo and why are they not ALL on the 900+ list???
Ah, the old 18Montclair argument.

Okay let's go ahead and debunk this once and for all.

First off API Statewide Rank scores are based off a scale from 200 to 1000. 800 is considered the target score for all California schools. Any school above the 800 range is considered a good school with no need for improvement (aka no additional funding). Anything below 800 is considered lacking and needs improvement.

So let's go MV vs Oakland.

Let's look at MV first.
School Rankings for the City of Mission Viejo, CA

Okay, so MV has 18 schools performing above the 800 mark. That's over 90% of the school district performing ABOVE expected standards, with THREE schools exceeding the 900 mark. Only TWO schools were performing under standard and one of them was a school specialized for children with disabilities.

Now let's look at Oakland Schools:
School Rankings for the City of Oakland, CA

Okay, Oakland has 27 schools performing above expectation. That's more than MV until you take into consideration that OUSD has over 4 times the schools that MV has. These schools only represent 24% of the schools in Oakland!

That means in the OUSD, over 75% of the schools are UNDER performing (compared to a hair under 5% for MV).

MV: 96% Performing Above Standard
OUSD: 24% Performing Above Standard

Want to take your foot out of your mouth, or should I? Maybe you should disappear from the thread like 18Montclair did after I posted similar data showing under performance for OUSD.

In fact I think I'll save this post for anyone who ask about the OUSD. This conclusively proves that a district that is only 24% competent and only graduates 73% of its students (compared to 80%, the U.S average) is horrible. OUSD is simply not a good school district despite the few gems you will find.
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