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Old 12-08-2010, 04:01 PM
 
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I took a trip to TX to scope it out a few years ago. I actually had quite a bit of fun ( Austin area) and would definitely have no problem moving there. But as you said its not exactly that easy to get a job there either. My attitude about the whole cost of living situation between states is that one could just as easily live in California, rent cheap, save money, and then move to a cheaper state and buy their house and get some sort of job to pay the utilities. We've been here 11 years and could just about do that now.

The thing is this: both of my parents still live in the South. Neither have what I'd call high paying jobs, even for their area. They make 50% less than I do. Yet they'd have to literally be millionaires to live exactly as they do if they were to move to coastal California. I think the biggest difference between Cali and a lot of other "normal" states is that people like teachers, carpenters, car mechanics, and even shoe salesmen can still do things like buy houses, live in a decent area, and have a somewhat stable middle class existence versus California where none of those professions pays enough to do much of anything anymore.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
3,022 posts, read 5,481,177 times
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Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
Neither have what I'd call high paying jobs, even for their area. They make 50% less than I do. Yet they'd have to literally be millionaires to live exactly as they do if they were to move to coastal California. I think the biggest difference between Cali and a lot of other "normal" states is that people like teachers, carpenters, car mechanics, and even shoe salesmen can still do things like buy houses, live in a decent area, and have a somewhat stable middle class existence versus California where none of those professions pays enough to do much of anything anymore.
Don't forget that although taxes are higher (save for property taxes), real estate costs more, etc, that the same jobs that people are paid for in many other states tend to get paid a lot more here. I'm not able to say that it evens out, but in many cases, it does.

Examples I've had experience with:

Librarians - Summit County, OH - Base Pay: $35k; Librarians - Contra Costa County - Base Pay: $65k

Real Estate agents certainly make more. California median home prices more than double those in Ohio, where I grew up. Rough estimations would double ones sales commissions each sale.

Police officers make more than in Ohio. I know many police offers in multiple counties who make anywhere between $35-$65k in Ohio. In Richmond, CA, base pay is $91k. Even police dispatchers make more here than regular police officers in Ohio.

Minimum wage is higher in California than any other state except for MA, VT, and WA. Much of the rest of the country is catching up, but in some areas, it's still significantly higher. Georgia's lowest paying employees barely make $6 per hour. In San Francisco, minimum wage is nearly $10 an hour.

My wife's job pays $10k more here in California than her offer in Ohio - not a ton, but it helps to offset other costs.

Now ask her and myself if we prefer spending more to live in California or Ohio? I am extraordinarily happy with our situation.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: The Bay and Maryland
1,362 posts, read 3,041,944 times
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I look around and notice all the beat up cars, high rent apartment complexes, high dmv fees, crappy urban public schools, lack of decent jobs for non college graduates etc and it hits me.

If your poor, or working class this is not not a good place to be

Everyone wants a shot at the American dream, but thats only possible if you have somewhere to start!

If you want to start small, work a decent job, save and build wealth and your poor or working class your going to have a pretty tough time here. Almost like the system has been rigged to keep poor folks poor.

I remember working at an ice cream shop when I was in my teens and my manager (a middle aged white woman with no education) did'nt have a car, no health insurance and worked 2 jobs. Thats misery and drudgery. Weather or no weather, poor folk can't even enjoy it.

Why do all the entry level job openings here seem to require a college degree just to make $11-15 an hour? What am I missing?

I honestly think if your poor or working class you should seriously consider moving to a cheaper state.
This is true. Poor people in Bay Area cities like SF and Oakland are marginalized and completely cut off from the rest of the cities. Places like West Oakland and Hunter's Point simply don't have much cash flowing through from the well-to-due folks living nearby. Poor people in Bay Area cities are often born into insular pockets of disenfranchisement where there are no jobs in polluted liquor store infested areas without even access to basic necessities like healthy food and supermarkets. Although many ghettos across America are similar, other places have more money flowing through even the poorest places. Not only that, the inability to speak other languages also limits the ability of many poor Bay Area natives from even getting a job at McDonald's. Although San Jose has one of the best job markets in the country from a statistical standpoint, it is no secret that Northern California and the Bay Area have been hit especially hard by the economic downturn. The astronomical cost of living in the Bay definitely keeps poor people poor. There is simply little room for upward mobility for poor folks in the Bay Area. The difference between rich and poor in the Bay is as stark as day and night. You can tell who is poor and who is way too comfortable in the Bay just by looking at them most of the time. This is the reason why my parents hustled to get us out of the Bay. The situation is very different in other cities and metro areas around the nation.

For example, I currently live in between Baltimore and DC in Maryland. MD is the richest state in the country and all that money finds a way to trickle down to the run down impoverished inner city areas of DC and Baltimore. In Baltimore during the hot Spring and Summer months, there are people selling ice cold bottled water at every other intersection of the city. Those guys can easily make $500 a day selling bottled water in Baltimore.

Moreover, the notorious underground economy of drugs out here pours millions of dollars into the pockets of poor people in the inner cities in DC and Baltimore. Not surprisingly, DC is number one in cocaine use in the nation. Rich influential DC area people love to snort coke and people from the ghetto in DC are selling that white girl like there is no tomorrow. This is the reason why ghetto kids in DC are always wearing the latest high fashion Ralph Lauren Purple Label to Burberry and Gucci like its no big deal. It is no stretch of the imagination to assume that poor people who sell coke to rich folks end up being quite well off themselves and start their own legitimate businesses with dirty money. After all, what is more American than that?

D.C. No. 1 in Cocaine Use - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Also, there is huge room for poor people from the roughest places in this area to advance in life. Many people from the ghetto areas of DC actually end up going to good local colleges and graduating, getting good government jobs only to buy million dollar homes in Maryland and Virginia. Others skip college and start their own successful businesses.

Last edited by goldenchild08; 12-08-2010 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:29 PM
 
794 posts, read 1,474,019 times
Reputation: 607
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Originally Posted by goldenchild08 View Post
This is true. Poor people in Bay Area cities like SF and Oakland are marginalized and completely cut off from the rest of the cities. Places like West Oakland and Hunter's Point simply don't have much cash flowing through from the well-to-due folks living nearby. Poor people in Bay Area cities are often born into insular pockets of disenfranchisement where there are no jobs in polluted liquor store infested areas without even access to basic necessities like healthy food and supermarkets. Although many ghettos across America are similar, other places have more money flowing through even the poorest places. Not only that, the inability to speak other languages also limits the ability of many poor Bay Area natives from even getting a job at McDonald's. Although San Jose has one of the best job markets in the country from a statistical standpoint, it is no secret that Northern California and the Bay Area have been hit especially hard by the economic downturn. The astronomical cost of living in the Bay definitely keeps poor people poor. There is simply little room for upward mobility for poor folks in the Bay Area. The difference between rich and poor in the Bay is as stark as day and night. You can tell who is poor and who is way too comfortable in the Bay just by looking at them most of the time. This is the reason why my parents hustled to get us out of the Bay. The situation is very different in other cities and metro areas around the nation.

For example, I currently live in between Baltimore and DC in Maryland. MD is the richest state in the country and all that money finds a way to trickle down to the run down impoverished inner city areas of DC and Baltimore. In Baltimore during the hot Spring and Summer months, there are people selling ice cold bottled water at every other intersection of the city. Those guys can easily make $500 a day selling bottled water in Baltimore.

Moreover, the notorious underground economy of drugs out here pours millions of dollars into the pockets of poor people in the inner cities in DC and Baltimore. Not surprisingly, DC is number one in cocaine use in the nation. Rich influential DC area people love to snort coke and people from the ghetto in DC are selling that white girl like there is no tomorrow. This is the reason why ghetto kids in DC are always wearing the latest high fashion Ralph Lauren Purple Label to Burberry and Gucci like its no big deal. It is no stretch of the imagination to assume that poor people who sell coke to rich folks end up being quite well off themselves and start their own legitimate businesses with dirty money. After all, what is more American than that?

D.C. No. 1 in Cocaine Use - City Desk - Washington City Paper

Also, there is huge room for poor people from the roughest places in this area to advance in life. Many people from the ghetto areas of DC actually end up going to good local colleges and graduating, getting good government jobs only to buy million dollar homes in Maryland and Virginia. Others skip college and start their own successful businesses.
Actually many poor in SF are living pretty easy is they know how to work the system. Check the article in this old post.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-f...s-5-years.html
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hwy phantom View Post
Actually many poor in SF are living pretty easy is they know how to work the system. Check the article in this old post.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-f...s-5-years.html
The original post was directed at poor folks who are honest and seek to better their economic situation (majority). Not the folks who like to get free rides (minority).
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:39 AM
 
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Don't forget that although taxes are higher (save for property taxes), real estate costs more, etc, that the same jobs that people are paid for in many other states tend to get paid a lot more here. I'm not able to say that it evens out, but in many cases, it does.
In my opinion the higher wages in CA do not compensate for the additional cost of living. I'm living proof of this. As mentioned in my previous response to this post my parents make 50% less than I do yet they live a lifestyle that would require a millionaire salary in California. I myself make close to a 6-figure income and last year was on the short list of candidates for a job in Austin TX. The pay would've been $45k a year. I didn't make the final cut but if I had been offered the job I would've moved there in a heartbeat. I mean seriously- a decent house in Austin is 150k versus 500-600k in the Bay Area. I would still be doing better making 40k a year there than 100k in the Bay Area.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:02 AM
 
1,032 posts, read 1,830,323 times
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Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
I mean seriously- a decent house in Austin is 150k versus 500-600k in the Bay Area. I would still be doing better making 40k a year there than 100k in the Bay Area.
Yeah in order to be getting a comparable deal, you'd need to be making 200k or more in California. To maintain a salary to housing cost ratio of 3 to 1.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,352,135 times
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Originally Posted by sliverbox View Post
a decent house in Austin is 150k versus 500-600k in the Bay Area. I would still be doing better making 40k a year there than 100k in the Bay Area.
Well, just like Austin, it depends on where you go. For example, you can get a 3br house in El Sobrante, Hercules, or Pinole for $300k.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: The Bay and Maryland
1,362 posts, read 3,041,944 times
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Actually many poor in SF are living pretty easy is they know how to work the system. Check the article in this old post.
The whole point of my post was illustrating how easy it is for ghetto residents of DC and Baltimore to becoming upper middle class and rich. Is being on welfare your whole life something to aspire to? Hell no. I've posted many times in many other threads that public housing in SF is among the worst in the nation. I would much rather live in the ghetto in DC than the ghetto in SF or West Oakland. Have you seen some of the public housing projects in the south and southeast sections of SF? I wouldn't want to stay on welfare and live in a filthy, polluted, cancer-inducing, fetus killing, murderous environment with dozens of liquor stores and zero supermarkets for the rest of my life. I've posted this article in other threads before, but would you really want to live off of welfare in an environment like this in SF for the rest of your life? Doesn't seem like an "easy" life to me. Then again, what would I know. I only grew up in Lakeview in SF in the 80's and early 90's where we literally couldn't even walk down the block day or night. Why don't you try living there first before you make such a grand statement about project living in SF being a walk in the park:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-02-0...ority-families

I was stating in my previous post much how easier it is to ESCAPE the ghetto in other places whereas the impoverished in SF and Oakland are more or less permanent members of the underclass. That's right. There are no baggy Girbaud shuttle jean, oversized air-brushed R.I.P. t-shirt, gold grill wearing employees at Apple, Craiglist and Facebook headquarters in the Bay Area. But many poor Black kids in the hood in DC do end up going to Howard University and graduate to get some of the best jobs in the best job market in the country in DC and Baltimore. Many people born in the ghetto where I live grow up to live in some of the richest communities in the nation here in Maryland, DC and Virginia. This is often not the case with residents of Bay Area ghettos. The reason why the homicide rate is so high in DC and Baltimore is because big money and big drugs equals big murder. Drug dealers are killing each other over tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in Maryland, not over petty turf beefs like the ghettos of SF.

Also, where I live, poor mostly Black folks in the inner cities have a monopoly on local cash crop drugs like Heroin. Baltimore is the Heroin capital of the US and there a lot of users in the city and the outlying suburbs who are forced to commute to the rough ghetto neighborhoods to purchase dope. There are prepubescent and barely teenage kids in inner city Baltimore who have Bentley money from selling Baltimore's exclusive South American Heroin. Selling dope in Baltimore is extremely profitable for impoverished ghetto residents to say the least. Yes, SF has this too but to a much lesser degree. I grew up in Lakeview on Ramsell street immediately up the hill from Randolph St. which has been a known open air drug market for crack, cocaine and heroin for decades. However, in 2010, these drugs are much less profitable to sell in a city full of fairly recent rich and yuppie transplants known as SF.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92699&page=1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n54139583/

Last edited by goldenchild08; 12-09-2010 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,352,135 times
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Originally Posted by goldenchild08 View Post
Selling dope in Baltimore is extremely profitable for impoverished ghetto residents to say the least. Yes, SF has this too but to a much lesser degree. I grew up in Lakeview on Ramsell street immediately up the hill from Randolph St. which has been a known open air drug market for crack, cocaine and heroin for decades. However, in 2010, these drugs are much less profitable to sell in a city full of fairly recent rich and yuppie transplants known as SF.
So, I'm not totally sure I understand your last two posts, but let me attempt to summarize. Baltimore and DC are better places for poor people due to the fact that they can become rich through selling drugs?
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