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Old 09-08-2011, 09:03 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,707,530 times
Reputation: 3119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Again, you're picking a fight with an imaginary guy. Where did I say I disagree with you on that part of your post?

You just like to argue don't you?





I DID NOT SAY "there's nowhere in the Mission I'd think twice about being in at any time of the day." You MADE that up. I said there's not any one spot that a person should avoid at all cost. Meaning there isn't one place so dangerous that you invite trouble just by walking into the area (And I've been to areas like that). Could things still happen to you? Sure. Anything can happen. You may get hit by car, hit by a stray bullet, get mistakened for a gangster, hit by lighting. Sure things could happen but if there's no reason for you be on someone's hit list, the chance of you being shot is minimal. "Minimal" is a word that I used often, I'm beginning to think that "minimal" means "never will happen" in your book.






You're entitled to think however you want to think. You see, I'm not a control freak like you are. I don't care if another has a different opinion than I do. But to actually say it to someone's face, well, that's rude; and it detracts from the argument. I don't want just another third-grade name-calling thread even though that seems like your cup of tea. To each his own I guess.

You see, I respect you, and rah, and O4k1and even if I disagree with you. I respect you guys as human beings; even if the same courtesy isn't extended by you to me. That's just manners. It's like my grandpa once said to a woman who yelled at him for being a sexist for holding the door for her, my grandpa said, "You may not be a lady, but that doesn't mean I can't be a gentleman."

Flava, I'm not calling you a lady least you make more hissy fit.






"Sugarcoating"? You threw a hissy fit because I "sugarcoated"? You're not even arguing facts anymore, you're just throwing out a bunch of hypotheticals and hope they stick.

I feel safe in the Mission. That's just how I feel. It's strange the length to which you'd go to change my mind. Why is my opinion so important to you? I can say that yours certainly isn't that important to me.

.

This is the last time I'll reply to you on this thread.


a) Calling us "anti-Mission" translates into "hate the Mission" for everybody else other than you apparently. If you didn't mean that, then you should've used a different word.

b) I beg to differ... there's not much that would compel me to walk through Army Street or any SF project at midnight if I have no business being there.

c) Sometimes, words like "stupid" are the only apt descriptor. The one throwing a hissy fit is you... the word "stupid" has never been used to refer to you in any context? Quite the charmed life you lead.

d) Sugercoating is exactly what you were doing. You may feel safe, but from an objective point of view, the Mission is not "safe" on the scale that urban American neighborhoods are generally judged by. Somewhere like, say, Pacific Heights is considered "safe" in general. Does that mean that nothing ever happens in Pacific Heights? Obviously not. However, usually far less happens in Pacific Heights than in the Mission. Does that mean I'd rather live in Pacific Heights than the Mission? No. But when I'm telling someone else the ins and outs of the City, I'm going to tell them which areas are more predisposed to crime, and the East Mission is one of them. I'll also tell them that it doesn't get much more vibrant, lively and human in SF than the Mission, but they - and I - would forget about all of that in a second if their safety was at risk. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to live in the Mission and not be exposed to the more tragic elements.

I'm not trying to change your opinion of the Mission, I'm trying to get you to recognize that for the purposes of informing outsiders about the neighborhood, it's pretty important to mention that serious crime does occur in it (almost all of it in the East Mission), and fairly regularly compared to "safe" SF neighborhoods. For some people, that's enough of a turn off for them to look elsewhere, and honestly, that's generally for the better of both parties (them and the people in the Mission)... nobody wants to live next to neighbors who are scared of their own shadow and think every person that looks at them at all is out to get them.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:14 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,707,530 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
My neighbors' kids don't have curfews. They're great kids, good students, stay out of trouble, in fact way more mature and grounded than I was at the same age.

What is your point?? Trying to suggest that my neighbors are gangbangers, eh? Sure, you'd be the one to know.


Btw, on 24th St, after dark the ratio of yuppies and non-yuppies are about 50/50. I have seen a non-yuppie family of eight including a couple of small children get late night snacks at Vahalla (sp?) at 11 pm, back when Vahalla is still open. I miss that place.





You've basically gone from yuppies living in "Walled City" to yuppies living in condo developments. "Walled City" is a far cry from condo development, my friend. Talk about backpedaling.

And you've basically went from "the yuppies do not live in the war zone. They also don't really live in the neighborhood" to "they DO live on the East Mission." Another back pedaling.

If you keep this up we're not going to have much to argue anymore because you'd have conceded your points.

No actually, the point was that most of the "normal" people in a neighborhood like East Mission tend to stay inside after dark to avoid any of the drama.

And no actually, read what I said:

Quote:
Note the "gated" part. Once they disappear into the condos, they're pretty much insulated from the outside world. Some condos even have businesses inside them so that they don't even have to leave to access amenities (think "Walled City").

I said condos from the beginning. You just can't read. And I've always been saying that they generally live in the condos, not the "actual" neighborhood (i.e. if they live in the East Mission, they're going to live in the condos). Again, another reading comprehension failure on your part.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:22 PM
 
379 posts, read 784,084 times
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I work right by 16th & mission BART in the drug zone and have never felt unsafe. other than getting whistled at sometimes I just mind my own business and am left alone. use common sense, don't get involved in the drug scene, and don't look like you belong in a gang and you should be fine.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:54 AM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,774,971 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalLover View Post
I work right by 16th & mission BART in the drug zone and have never felt unsafe. other than getting whistled at sometimes I just mind my own business and am left alone. use common sense, don't get involved in the drug scene, and don't look like you belong in a gang and you should be fine.

gangs sell drugs and attract addicts ,tweakers and junkies who will involve you as they will rob you to get back on the pipe and needle.
that is why the wells fargo ATMs in the mission are shut down after 8 o'clock
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:58 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,206,123 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post

a) Calling us "anti-Mission" translates into "hate the Mission" for everybody else other than you apparently. If you didn't mean that, then you should've used a different word.

b) I beg to differ... there's not much that would compel me to walk through Army Street or any SF project at midnight if I have no business being there.

c) Sometimes, words like "stupid" are the only apt descriptor. The one throwing a hissy fit is you... the word "stupid" has never been used to refer to you in any context? Quite the charmed life you lead.

d) Sugercoating is exactly what you were doing. You may feel safe, but from an objective point of view, the Mission is not "safe" on the scale that urban American neighborhoods are generally judged by. Somewhere like, say, Pacific Heights is considered "safe" in general. Does that mean that nothing ever happens in Pacific Heights? Obviously not. However, usually far less happens in Pacific Heights than in the Mission. Does that mean I'd rather live in Pacific Heights than the Mission? No. But when I'm telling someone else the ins and outs of the City, I'm going to tell them which areas are more predisposed to crime, and the East Mission is one of them. I'll also tell them that it doesn't get much more vibrant, lively and human in SF than the Mission, but they - and I - would forget about all of that in a second if their safety was at risk. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to live in the Mission and not be exposed to the more tragic elements.

I'm not trying to change your opinion of the Mission, I'm trying to get you to recognize that for the purposes of informing outsiders about the neighborhood, it's pretty important to mention that serious crime does occur in it (almost all of it in the East Mission), and fairly regularly compared to "safe" SF neighborhoods. For some people, that's enough of a turn off for them to look elsewhere, and honestly, that's generally for the better of both parties (them and the people in the Mission)... nobody wants to live next to neighbors who are scared of their own shadow and think every person that looks at them at all is out to get them.

a) If it makes you feel any better. I take back the "anti-Mission" term. There, feel better?

b) Fine with me.

c) It's not just the word "stupid" but the fact that you put a label on me and debated me in a very stereotypical way. You need to open up your mind and realize that yuppies are not one and the same.

d) You're just grasping for straws here. Using your standard, I could just as easily accuse you of sugarcoating West Oakland. I didn't go there because it's pointless - I knew you're pro-West Oakland so of course you are going to stress the positive and minimize the negative. Believe it or not, nothing wrong with that.

e) You guys (you, 04k1and, rah, ssmaster) have already stressed the dangerous, crime ridden aspect of Mission. I'm here to balance and highlight the fact that crime happens but it's not a war zone. I don't have to go into details about Mission crime because you guys have already done that. Do you not get that? Do you not realize what you're asking for would result in a freakin essay?

f) And here is the important point, you don't live here. You don't know what it's like to live here. You think you do but you don't. That's why in your post, you bring up Gary, Indiana and Oakland and other places but never ever did you cite any tangible experience about the Mission. What you know is purely from second-hand sources and the occasional visit. My friend, you will never know Mission as much as you claim you do, until you actually live here. You're like the guy who played little league baseball and claimed that you know more about the sport than a professional.

Notice that everyone who lives/work in the Mission said similar to what I said: "Sure crime happens, but I generally feel safe in the Mission." That's the reality of what most people living in the Mission thinks. Not "OH NO, I'm trading safety for fun!" Not "I hope I don't get shot tonite while leaving a bar." Not "My neighbors could be gangsters!" Somehow, the fact that people could feel safe living in the Mission irks you. Next, you're going to pick a fight with people who feels safe living in tornado country.

Last edited by beb0p; 09-09-2011 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:19 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,206,123 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
No actually, the point was that most of the "normal" people in a neighborhood like East Mission tend to stay inside after dark to avoid any of the drama.

Most people, across all demographics, stay home after dark, why even bring up this fact? The point shouldn't be that they stay home after the sun goes down, but would they feel safe going out at night in the Mission whenever they feel like going out at night. And the answer is yes for most people living in the Mission.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post

I said condos from the beginning. You just can't read. And I've always been saying that they generally live in the condos, not the "actual" neighborhood (i.e. if they live in the East Mission, they're going to live in the condos). Again, another reading comprehension failure on your part.
You said:

Some condos even have businesses inside them so that they don't even have to leave to access amenities (think "Walled City").

Walled city - condos that function like the Green Zone. With amenities and businesses inside them to shelter them away from the flying bullets outside. These things don't exist in the Mission. The WCCDE (Walled City Condos that Don't Exist) are what I'm referring to there: that you've gone from claiming yuppies live in WCCDE to yuppies merely live in condos (which do exist but in a far less utopian setting than you described).
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:37 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,206,123 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmaster View Post
gangs sell drugs and attract addicts ,tweakers and junkies who will involve you as they will rob you to get back on the pipe and needle.
that is why the wells fargo ATMs in the mission are shut down after 8 o'clock

Yup, in addition, the earthquake that will happen is going to swallow buildings, trap you inside burning elevators, and give you a slow painful death as you try to escape but is knocked back by the sensation of the giant meteorite that is hitting the San Francisco Bay right after the great earthquake ended. That's why city code requires seismic retrofitting for all new construction but when the big one hits, the retrofitting won't save you.

In the post-apocalyptic world that follows, Mission gangs will rule the planet because apparently nothing in this world can stop them. They are all powerful and should be feared by even the devil himself.

In the meantime, "Survivor: Mission District" is in the process of being filmed. Finally the most dangerous place in the world is getting its nod from television, network is still looking for contestants as no one applied once they hear the filming will be in the Mission District.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:47 PM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,774,971 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Yup, in addition, the earthquake that will happen is going to swallow buildings, trap you inside burning elevators, and give you a slow painful death as you try to escape but is knocked back by the sensation of the giant meteorite that is hitting the San Francisco Bay right after the great earthquake ended. That's why city code requires seismic retrofitting for all new construction but when the big one hits, the retrofitting won't save you.

In the post-apocalyptic world that follows, Mission gangs will rule the planet because apparently nothing in this world can stop them. They are all powerful and should be feared by even the devil himself.

the city requires retrofiiting of all new construction in EVERY neighborhood

wells fargo does not shut down ATM's in a every neighborhood.just the ones were it's customers are routinely getting robbed.


Which in my opinion contradicts the mantra "just stay away from gangs and drugs and you wont have any problems"

i actually don't think the mission is that bad a neighborhood but the idea that living in a neighborhood with gangs drugs and addicts does not put you at greater risk of crime is unreal.

Last edited by ssmaster; 09-09-2011 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,707,530 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
a) If it makes you feel any better. I take back the "anti-Mission" term. There, feel better?

b) Fine with me.

c) It's not just the word "stupid" but the fact that you put a label on me and debated me in a very stereotypical way. You need to open up your mind and realize that yuppies are not one and the same.

d) You're just grasping for straws here. Using your standard, I could just as easily accuse you of sugarcoating West Oakland. I didn't go there because it's pointless - I knew you're pro-West Oakland so of course you are going to stress the positive and minimize the negative. Believe it or not, nothing wrong with that.

e) You guys (you, 04k1and, rah, ssmaster) have already stressed the dangerous, crime ridden aspect of Mission. I'm here to balance and highlight the fact that crime happens but it's not a war zone. I don't have to go into details about Mission crime because you guys have already done that. Do you not get that? Do you not realize what you're asking for would result in a freakin essay?

f) And here is the important point, you don't live here. You don't know what it's like to live here. You think you do but you don't. That's why in your post, you bring up Gary, Indiana and Oakland and other places but never ever did you cite any tangible experience about the Mission. What you know is purely from second-hand sources and the occasional visit. My friend, you will never know Mission as much as you claim you do, until you actually live here. You're like the guy who played little league baseball and claimed that you know more about the sport than a professional.

What exactly did I sugarcoat about West Oakland? That's its very economically and commercially depressed? That there's parts of it that are very risky to be in? That there's a lot of crime? I've already said all of that just in this thread. What are you claiming I'm sugarcoating then, that there's some fairly decent neighborhoods in it? That it's not all a scene from Menace II Society? How familiar are you with West Oakland that you think otherwise? Honestly it seemed like you said that more to "make a point" than to say something with a basis in reality.

The difference between me talking about West Oakland and you talking about the Mission is that you minimize the impact that crime can have on QOL. I would never recommend living in West Oakland to people who are not used to living in close proximity to trouble areas... even the nice areas are not particularly far or removed from the not-so-nice areas and there's always the possibility that a little bit of it might spill over. The Mission on the other hand has the West Mission which is a nicer neighborhood than anything in West Oakland in terms of the whole package, but the East Mission has most of the very same issues that make West Oakland less livable than other parts of Oakland. The only people who I'd recommend living in either West Oakland or the East Mission to are people who do not find the idea of violent crime mortifying. I'm no more pro-West Oakland than I am pro-East Mission... However, I will be very quick to tell anybody who implies that all of West Oakland is the hood that they've never been there and have no clue what they're talking about.

I never claimed to live in the Mission or have a resident's familiarity with it. What I do claim however is knowing what goes on in communities with a big Latino gang presence in the Bay Area... they all face a lot of the same problems, and the Mission is one of the most problem-filled of all in that regard. It's also simultaneously one of the nicest... what issue do you have with offering a multi-tiered viewpoint? This topic isn't black and white. The good and bad of the neighborhood coexist and often intersect, just like they do in any other neighborhood.

I didn't "stress" the crime aspect either, I simply reject viewpoints that make light of it. If the crime is not an issue to you, then you can enjoy the east side of what is arguably SF's most complete neighborhood. There's a difference between not being bothered by it and flat out overlooking it though.

Did I say yuppies are all the same? I said the majority live in condos - which are generally gated - and not in the older part of the neighborhood. There are obviously exceptions to this rule... I know a couple of the exceptions. A couple of them have told me how annoying it can be to socialize at stores and restaurants frequented by some of the fellow local yuppie population and be given the "you live there?!" look or comment from people who literally live a block away in the same neighborhood when those people ask my friends where they live.

As far as my personal experience with the Mission goes, no I haven't been a victim of crime in the Mission, but that's largely because I don't place myself in situations where the chance for that to happen goes exponentially up. The reality of the Mission for a young black male is that I look much less like a "non-participant" and much more like a possible threat/victim by default. That's also the reality in West Oakland, hence why I don't hang out in West Oakland after dark unless I'm inside a house or at an event.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:38 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,707,530 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Most people, across all demographics, stay home after dark, why even bring up this fact? The point shouldn't be that they stay home after the sun goes down, but would they feel safe going out at night in the Mission whenever they feel like going out at night. And the answer is yes for most people living in the Mission.





You said:

Some condos even have businesses inside them so that they don't even have to leave to access amenities (think "Walled City").

Walled city - condos that function like the Green Zone. With amenities and businesses inside them to shelter them away from the flying bullets outside. These things don't exist in the Mission. The WCCDE (Walled City Condos that Don't Exist) are what I'm referring to there: that you've gone from claiming yuppies live in WCCDE to yuppies merely live in condos (which do exist but in a far less utopian setting than you described).

Who constitutes this "most" people group you speak of?

And there are plenty of condos in the Mission with businesses inside them that only cater to the demographic of people who can afford to live in a condo. I only meant "walled city" in the sense that they don't have to expose themselves to the outside if say they want to get a bite at a restaurant; they can literally go downstairs. Obviously the majority of residents are probably going to be frequenting Valencia or Mission Street, but there are condos that make it fairly easy for the Mission to be the place your condo happens to be in rather than the community you wanted to be a part of.
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