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I will tell you this. If this area is such a problem for blacks then explain all. The successful black people I have worked with for the last 20 years?? Why is it they don't have a problem getting AND keeping their well paying jobs? Many don't have college degrees yet still persisted and through hard work and results have become successful in their respective fields. They did a good job and were rewarded accordingly. Perhaps certain companies don't promote or hire but that is not a regional problem, that is a labor board problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senmaze
Bayarea girl states:
"Maybe you are coming in at the tail end of things. Don't think anyone is intentionally throwing the victim card at blacks."
No Bayarea girl I'm not coming in at the tail end. You probably missed this.
Curmudgeon stated:
"Only the ones that snivel incessantly, Arty, and persist in beating the same, sad, sorry old drum of discrimination rather than forging ahead. I've worked with many who were intelligent, educated, conversant, industrious and asked for and expected no special favors."
Bayarea Girl states:
"For me, this thread is a bit ridiculous because people of any color can move where ever is best for them. It should not make the news."
"Racial dynamics are going to be with us for some time. So discussing racial issues IMO is not ridiculous (this should be its own separate thread). Making a racial issue where there shouldn't be an issue is ridiculous. Stating that the bay area is more hostile to blacks, I just don't see it."
You are either tired of talking about racial issues, don't carry on discussions where issues of race and class issues are relevant or really believe that race isn't a factor in why blacks have been moving from SF. It's perfectly fine to want a thread to die for any of the above reasons. But you can't say, (i'm paraphrasing) "I want this thread to die. I don't see why race is being discussed in this thread. The bay area isn't hostile to blacks. Don't think anyone is throwing the victim card at blacks. Good night." In other words you're delusional, stop talking.
I think it's perfectly fine for people to discuss any reason why black people have been moving from SF. I'm reacting to what I've perceived to be a very liberal city. Coming to this forum has validated things for me that I have experienced in real life here in SF. Again I'm coming from NYC and SF was supposed to be up there from what I gathered. Hands down SF is more hostile to Black and Brown people. Read my first post here and you'll note that I didn't start writing until a little after a year of living here. And I never cry racism or discrimination. I never even talk about it. Ever. I try to master and figure a way around it. Nonetheless I definitely know when I experience hostility and genuinely was relieved when others spoke of similar experiences here. And I felt obliged to post. And I read all of the posts before replying.
Moroccans are white??? Since when? Saudis's white? Really?
I don't think so.
Well I don't think they are white either, according to the census, they do not count as minorities....
(I never realized this until I chatted with a middle eastern friend on what box she checks on the census, and another friend who isn't eligible for the SBA loans for minorities because he is Iranian.)
Check out the wikipedia entry (I am too lazy to link to the census definition)
Quote:
White Americans are people of the United States who are considered or consider themselves White. The United States Census Bureau defines White people as those "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who reported “White” or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish."[5]
This probably made sense when they wer classified by the census in what the 50s? But I am sure post-9/11 there are plenty that would like to be in the minority category.
I will tell you this. If this area is such a problem for blacks then explain all. The successful black people I have worked with for the last 20 years?? Why is it they don't have a problem getting AND keeping their well paying jobs? Many don't have college degrees yet still persisted and through hard work and results have become successful in their respective fields. They did a good job and were rewarded accordingly. Perhaps certain companies don't promote or hire but that is not a regional problem, that is a labor board problem.
I can only explain what I've experienced. To explain all is a big responsibility you're placing on me just because I've found some truth in the statements that racism plays a role in why blacks are moving from SF. I can't satisfy your curiosity.
I've always based my success on my hard work. My hard work has brought me success. It's the main thing I depend on regardless of the weather. Problems yes I've had some. It's always a struggle when you are constantly competing in an ever changing economy. I've figured things out to stay on top of things.
The successful black people you've worked with for the last 20 years have told you they didn't have a problem getting and keeping their well paid jobs? Were they rewarded accordingly to the good job they did? Things may have gone smoothly for them. I'm not doubting that these experiences exist.
If they've had some stumbles along the way should they blame it on racism. No. Maybe. I don't know. Yes. If they didn't well it's probably because they figured out that it's usually a waste of time. Not always but usually. At least I figured this out myself. But for those times when it does exist is it wrong to point it out. Would you hold it against them. Would their hard work, success and credibility be diminished if they did encounter racial hardships and said so. From my experience it does diminish your credibility so I don't say anything usually.
On the other hand I think it diminishes the credibility of others who live in a cloud of denial. But being in denial is popular now. I can deny if you want. Does that make things easier. Maybe. Yes it allows for people to get along without any baggage. The last thing you want is to deal with so and so who keep bringing up that embarrassing event when you threw up in his car. But if someone created a thread that is entitled why did Tom sell his car? One reason could be because Tom needed the money, wanted to upgrade, didn't need it and preferred his bicycle. And maybe it's okay if some people with some inside information to say that it's because Taboo 2 vomited in his car and then farted on his steering wheel. Who cares. It apparently matters for those who thought Tom's car was great and wanted it around. It matters because it's true however minimal it is of a subject matter to some. I don't think people should feel inconvenienced by this. By denying, asking for statistics, and such and such is fine but it will be countered constantly. Not always in the way you want it to be. You might not be satisfied with the answers. You might want to write it off as unsuccessful black/brown people whining. You don't have to listen to it. I don't anymore. I think I'll take another 3 month brake from this forum.
Senmaze, I think you just want to argue. You are taking things completely out of context. The thread doesn't have to die because I or anyone said so (think you are being too sensitive). Keep pitching fights with others for no reason to keep it alive.
What does our back and forth have to do with Blacks leaving the bay? Didn't need to give this thread closure. It could go on forever. It really doesn't matter to me because I don't take anything on here personally.
Saying that there is racism in the bay is not new and it is not new for this country. It doesn't make anyone in denial for stating they believe one way or another. I think you should give the thread a brake as you stated (not because I said so) because I'm not the one you need to be having a debate with.
Last edited by bayarea-girl; 06-13-2011 at 07:20 PM..
Recent demographic trends in all of the world class American cities are the same. SF, NYC and DC have all been losing their Black populations because of gentrification. The most recent trend post-2007 is that the middle class of all of these cities have been hollowed out leaving only the richest and poorest of the Black populations residing in cities like SF and DC. When I was growing up in the Black-majority neighborhood of Lakeview in SF, there were a ot of middle class Black folks. But the most of those middle class folks were forced out of The City due to rising cost of living. Today, SF's black population consists mainly of a few rich mostly transplant tokens in the wealthier neighborhoods and the much poorer native concentrations that live in and around the projects in Hunter's Point, Sunnydale, Fillmore, the Tenderloin, Potrero Hill and Lakeview.
DC is very much the same. Although DC Area has the highest concentration of wealthy/upper middle class Black folks in the country, one out of five people in DC's city limits lives below the poverty line. The face of poverty in DC is overwhelmingly Black. The Bay Area is more or less the same. There may be more upper middle class Blacks in the East Bay, but it is no stretch to say the majority of native Blacks in SF in 2011 are poor. All across the country, the middle class is shrinking and race is not the defining factor.
Bayarea girl I'm not arguing with you. What a crazy assumption. I've never stated nor have given you a run down of any reasons why I disagree with you. Why are we even talking. I took a small quote from your post to make my point and you apparently took it to launch your disagreement with me. Let's have some context here Bayarea girl.
I also don't need to take a break, I'm just choosing to discontinue the merry go round with you or anyone else. You might want to take things in perspective. Give things another reading just so your comprehension is intact. Like I said we disagree. That's fine with me.
So now you don't want this thread to die! You're not taking it personally. Ok. I don't care. Remember I never sought to have a debate with you. What is it that we should argue about? You feel that racism has no place in this thread. That's fine. Is that it? You could probably pick up this proclamation with the next poster who brings it up.
I'm sorry certain experiences are an inconvenience to you. It's probably safer for you to turn away if you don't like to deal with these issues.
Senmaze, again I don't see why we are going back and forth.
Your comment:
I'm sorry certain experiences are an inconvenience to you. It's probably safer for you to turn away if you don't like to deal with these issues.
*Again another comment I don't agree with. Not really sure what your problem is.
Your comment:
So now you don't want this thread to die!
*This thread has reached its limit. The article is old. And you again are taking things out of context.
Your comment:
I took a small quote from your post to make my point and you apparently took it to launch your disagreement with me.
*Uh, no! I feel like you genuinely had a question. I responded and you initiated an arguement. But I am moving on as we can not reach a common level of understanding.
So what? Manhattan is dominated by Whites and Hispanics. American Blacks only make-up 12% of the population of Manhattan. Yes, some of those are mixed race/Black Hispanics like Dominicans in Manhattan but you have to realize that they have a different culture than native-born American Blacks. Many Hispanic Blacks don't even consider themselves to be Black or get along with American Blacks in Manhattan. But everyone knows Harlem is historically a bastion of Black culture in America. Similarly, large portions of the San Francisco peninsula were once some of the most important Black cultural areas on the West Coast. The Fillmore was known as the Harlem of the West. The Fillmore was one of the biggest Jazz meccas west of the Mississippi. Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and Louie Armstrong performed in Jazz clubs around Fillmore and hung out in the area regularly back in the 40's. Later in the late 80's through the 90's, the Fillmore became another cultural hotbed in producing classic independent Hip Hop in being the home of West Coast Rap legends including Rappin' 4Tay, JT the Bigga Figga and San Quinn. Other historically predominantly Black areas of the City like Lakeview, Hunter's Point and Sunnydale also produced absurd amounts of Hip Hop during this time period.
Similarly, in the 80's the Hunter's Point district in San Francisco used to have the largest concentration of Black owned real estate and businesses in the entire state of California:
Negro Removal | San Francisco Bay View (http://sfbayview.com/tag/‘negro-removal’/ - broken link)
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