Chick-fil-A Opening in the Bay Area? (San Francisco, Oakland: colleges, shopping center, garden)

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yes look at Manhattan, what is the average density like 70K per square mile? That might have something to do with that. How many places in America are like Manhattan?

As far as having a high concentration of fast food joints there are many places like Manhattan. Like another poster said you clearly haven't spent much time in the Midwest... This:

mcdonalds gary IN - Google Maps

Is a very common sight in much of the small town Midwest, particularly when you're driving from one major city to the next. In many places the "commercial districts" are fast food and chain store plazas.

[sav858]

This isn't scientific but I can think of any other way to look it up.

Fast food resturants according to Yelp
Oakland: 114
Omaha, NE: 102
Raleigh, NC: 61

Fast food restaurants Oakland

Fast food restaurants Omaha

Fast food restaurants Raleigh


All of these cities are around the same in population. Doesn't look like Oakland is any better at all when it comes to the South or Midwest from this small sample here.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Yeah, I've lived in and visited plenty of places like that... take Redwood City for example where there's 4 subways within a 5 block radius.

subway redwood city - Google Maps

San Jose is even more like that... all the main avenues (Bascom, Alum Rock, etc.) have fastfood joints literally every 3 blocks or so.


New York City is like that as well... even only looking at Manhattan - especially Midtown - it's very difficult to find a block that doesn't have fast food. Granted, it also has everything else but the prevalence is somewhat surprising given how high-rent of an area Manhattan is.

I lived in a very non-dense part of South Carolina, and there were way more fast food restaurants than in the same radius of my home in Oakland. The city's population with the 3 neighboring ones is about 55000 people. I can remember about 15 fast food places in a 5 mile radius. And those are ones that I recall from 15 years ago. Multiples of most chains. No interstate passed through any of the towns, just a 4 lane highway. Most were in clusters of 3 or 4 across the street from each other. Ever commercial area had a similar cluster.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

As far as having a high concentration of fast food joints there are many places like Manhattan. Like another poster said you clearly haven't spent much time in the Midwest... This:

There is no other place in America that will have the concentration of any type of restaurant or business as Manhattan over an equal area. It's absurd to think areas that have less than 3K per sq mile are going to be comparable to a place that has over 70K per sq mile.

Is a very common sight in much of the small town Midwest, particularly when you're driving from one major city to the next. In many places the "commercial districts" are fast food and chain store plazas.

So now we're on the subject of small towns? I thought we were comparing metro areas. Look at the small towns up and down the Central Valley, it's not any better.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Even in the parts of Oakland that do have fast food, the concentration is not high at all in comparison to most other places. East Oakland has the most fast food out of any part of Oakland and even then, the distance from one McDonald's to the next is generally 30+ blocks... the one on 98th & International is 25 blocks east and 10 blocks south of the one in Eastmont Mall, which is 10 blocks north and 10 blocks east of the one on 63rd & International, which is 15 blocks south and 30 blocks east of the one on Fruitvale & MacArthur... the same is true of KFC. The other traditional chains like Wendy's, Church's Burger King, In N Out, Subway, Popeye's, etc. only have a single location in East Oakland as far as I'm aware, which is both surprising when you consider that their target demographic lives in large swaths of East Oakland but also unsurprising because chains typically don't like East Oakland because places that stay open late tend to attract a seedier element after dark. It's not like most places where you walk 5 blocks and there's yet another McDonalds or Subway or BK or etc.

Absolutely true! I live in Maxwell park and very occasionally like to go to McDonald's for breakfast. My choices are 73rd and MacArthur or Fruitvale and MacArthur, neither really that close. The closest Carl's Jr. to me is way over on Telegraph and W. MacArthur. When I lived in San Diego, I was able to walk in 10 minutes to a McD's, a Carl's Jr. a KFC, a Rubios, an El Pollo Loco and a Jack N The Box. To get to the central part of Mission Valley I'd pass another McD's before getting to another Carl's, another Jack as well as a BK and Del Taco. Oh and I forgot there's a BK in a mall not far from the one I just mentioned.

In no way is fast food so heavily concentrated like that herel!

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by sav858

This isn't scientific but I can think of any other way to look it up.

Fast food resturants according to Yelp
Oakland: 114
Omaha, NE: 102
Raleigh, NC: 61

Fast food restaurants Oakland

Fast food restaurants Omaha

Fast food restaurants Raleigh


All of these cities are around the same in population. Doesn't look like Oakland is any better at all when it comes to the South or Midwest from this small sample here.

Did you actually look at the results?

Here's page 3 of Oakland for you:

21) Judy's Burgers
22) Quick Bite
23) Carl's Jr.
24) Oakland Express
25) Popeye's
26) Top Dog
27) San Francisco Soup Company
28) Panda Express
29) Mr. Pizza Man
30) Church's Chicken

Only 4 of those (23, 25, 28 and 30) are fast food chains. The further down you go that list (starting at page 5) many of the results aren't even in Oakland.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by sav858

There is no other place in America that will have the concentration of any type of restaurant or business as Manhattan over an equal area. It's absurd to think areas that have less than 3K per sq mile are going to be comparable to a place that has over 70K per sq mile.
So now we're on the subject of small towns? I thought we were comparing metro areas. Look at the small towns up and down the Central Valley, it's not any better.

Once again, take a trip to the Midwest... in many parts of it there's literally nothing but fast food chains with the occasional all-american diner and maybe a chinese take-out. Out there, when you want to eat or do anything that doesn't involve a chain/big box store you go to the big city, which often also have no shortage of the chains... it's a very different consumer culture than either of the coasts.

We are talking about metro areas. I'm telling you that the difference between the Bay outside of SF and the midwest outside of its hub cities when it comes to the kind of retail and dining there is is very large... the South is also very similar to the Midwest in that regard. Frankly I don't see why/what you're arguing, anybody who's spent any significant amount of time in the middle of the country knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Did you actually look at the results?

Here's page 3 of Oakland for you:

21) Judy's Burgers
22) Quick Bite
23) Carl's Jr.
24) Oakland Express
25) Popeye's
26) Top Dog
27) San Francisco Soup Company
28) Panda Express
29) Mr. Pizza Man
30) Church's Chicken

Only 4 of those (23, 25, 28 and 30) are fast food chains. The further down you go that list (starting at page 5) many of the results aren't even in Oakland.

Did you look at the results of the other cities? It's the same thing. Some national chains and some I've never heard of. Funny how you had to go to Page 3 for Oakland to point that out when the first page of Omaha has a majority of fast food I've never heard of.

Do you think Yelp treats Oakland differently than Omaha or Raleigh?

I know it's not scientific or 100% accurate but it quantifies something that everyone else has just been providing anectodal evidence to. If you have a better way to quanitfy it, by all means please do.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

We are talking about metro areas. I'm telling you that the difference between the Bay outside of SF and the midwest outside of its hub cities when it comes to the kind of retail and dining there is is very large... the South is also very similar to the Midwest in that regard. Frankly I don't see why/what you're arguing, anybody who's spent any significant amount of time in the middle of the country knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Then why did you bring up small towns?

I'm not saying the Bay Area is just like the Midwest or South, I already stated that it likely is below the national average as far as fast food chains per capita. I said once you get away from a few areas in the Bay Area (SF, Berk, parts of Oak) I don't think it's as drastic as some people make it out to be or that different than other parts of the country which includes more than the Midwest and South. I never restricted my argument to those specific areas like you are. You even showed how Redwood City is filled with chains, supporting my argument. Maybe go back and re-read my posts again because I don't feel like going in circles here.

I used Yelp to help prove my point. If all you have is anectodal evidence then I suppose that's where this debate has nowhere else to go. I just find it amusing how some people on here get so defensive when you feel certain aspects of the Bay Area suburbs aren't that different than other parts of the country.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by sav858

Did you look at the results of the other cities? It's the same thing. Some national chains and some I've never heard of. Funny how you had to go to Page 3 for Oakland to point that out when the first page of Omaha has a majority of fast food I've never heard of.

Do you think Yelp treats Oakland differently than Omaha or Raleigh?

I know it's not scientific or 100% accurate but it quantifies something that everyone else has just been providing anectodal evidence to. If you have a better way to quanitfy it, by all means please do.

No **** it doesn't treat Oakland differently, which is why I didn't bother looking at the rest of your "evidence"... clearly its not very strong evidence. What would be stronger is if you picked the same national chains (let's just say McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, KFC and Popeye's) and googled them in each city.

Let's try McDonald's... I went to at least page 5 on all of the cities.

Oakland - 9 (the results after page one were all in different cities)

Mcdonald's Oakland!

Omaha - 23 (results for Omaha went until page 4)

Mcdonald's Oakland

Raleigh - 29 (I stopped counting at page 8)

Mcdonald's Oakland

I didn't check addresses against each other to make sure there were no repeats but that gives you a slightly more accurate image of fast food prevalence in these cities... McDonald's is the most prevalent chain in Oakland by far so that should tell you something. And speaking of density, Oakland is more than twice as dense as Omaha and more than 3 times as dense as Raleigh yet Raleigh has the most McDonald's restaurants... clearly density doesn't have much of anything to do with it. If anything, cities that are not as dense are going to have MORE fast food chains than denser cities because the lower density promotes a driving culture which promotes a drive-thru culture.