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Hey People,
I posted this to the forums at OaklandLocal, but that group seems pretty dead so I figured I would ask over here as well. I know this is for the bay area at large, but any insight would be most helpful. Thanks.
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I am relocating to the bay area after living in Detroit for the last 10 years and after looking at a number of different neighborhoods I feel like Oakland has the best mix of culture and cost-of-living but I have some worries. Coming from Detroit (which has a similarly "rough" reputation) some of these questions may sound a little odd, but I would be greatly appreciative of any insight that the community would be willing to share.
A little background... I am a white guy in his early 30s. I grew up in New York City in the 80s and then spent some time living in both Philadelphia and Boston for school before settling in Detroit in 2001. I moved to Detroit for work but quickly became involved in the community and (to be perfectly honest) absolutely love the city, it's people, and it's "make it happen" rust-belt culture. I'm sad to go, but at the same time I'm excited to connect with a new place. While considering neighborhoods in the bay area I had a strong distaste for parts of SF (SOMA in particular) and some of the more "hippy-ish" parts of Berkley but as I approached Lake Merritt coming down Grand I asked my friend to "stop the car" and started my search from there. There is quite a bit about Oakland that reminds me of Detroit (I mean that in a good way) in terms of culture (good nihilist to hippy ratio... LOL) and politics. So... my questions are:
- Coming from Detroit, I understand some of the realities of crime and how to live with it. That said, sites like the Oakland Crimespotting map are really intimidating. Part of me thinks that this is due to the fact that we don't have anything in Detroit that is similar for comparison, but part of me is worried that I may be putting myself into a risky situation. I don't want to feel like I'm being held hostage inside of my house or apartment or scared to take my dog for a walk at night. Is the crime rate improving or are things (particularly around the east and south-east side of Lake Merritt) getting worse? Or are my fears justified and I really am stepping into something dangerous?
- I am looking at a number of different places but found one spot in the "Clinton" neighborhood (south-east side of Lake Merritt) that accepts dogs and felt relatively safe both during the day and when I drove through at night. Is this a good neighborhood? Looking at the crime map it looks a little "iffy" (a murder only a few blocks away not too long ago) but then again, the whole city looks rough according to that site. I really like the building and the mix of people that I met seemed nice and generally positive about the city.
- This is the most important question of all and I know it is a tough one. Race.... Detroit has a long and incredibly painful history of racial segregation, discrimination and hate. It still remains a largely segregated population (ever seen "8 Mile"?) but the white and latino populations that live in the inner-city tend to have an incredibly positive (and steadily improving) relationship with the majority black population within the downtown area. Of course there are exceptions and of course I'm speaking in generalities, but I suppose my question is, am I going to be seen as just another white yuppie moving to Oakland from the suburbs (which couldn't be further from the truth) or is the community interested in new faces moving to Oakland that want to engage, pitch-in and help out? To be perfectly honest I would be devastated to move to Oakland only to have my enthusiasm and experience go to waste. I know that this is a bit of a loaded question but I just want to make sure that the move is good for me AND the city.
Thanks for your help and I appreciate input that any of you may be willing to share. Sincerely,
Oakland has a lot more going for it then Detroit rock city. It is near sf and is not as dependent on one industry which is struggling.
Yes as a white person you will be just another face not from Oakland trying to edge yourself in. But those feelings of resentment are largely relegated to blue collar natives, and even then its not all of them.
White Yuppies will be welcoming as virtually no large groups white people have been raised in Oakland since the 60s and pretty much all of them are outsiders with regards to Oakland. They did not go to school there were not born there, have no family ties there, etc.
Thanks NorCal and Ultrarunner! LOL re: trouble makers not waking up until 11 or noon... that's great advice. Looks like I'll be adjusting my dog's "pee schedule". :-P
Any familiarity with this part of the Lake Merritt neighborhood?
That neighborhood is rougher than some of its immediate neighbors, though better than the ones south of it. The crime map looks intimidating - when I first moved to Oakland it freaked me out - but the number of dots (though not overall rate) looks way worse in SF due to having larger numbers of people/crime, and I'd imagine much worse still for Detroit. It's really hard to gauge what those mean, and I'm a little dubious about their accuracy sometimes. Make sure you check out the Oakland police crime map at CrimeView Community Incident Map. I've realized since that what you see on the maps doesn't necessarily have as much to do with personal safety as you would think. I recently looked at a crime map for a snooty part of NYC that everyone thinks is safe, and it had two reported muggings and a rape within the previous week. Stuff just happens in cities.
That said, neighboring Ivy Hill and Cleveland Heights are better hoods, as are Adam's Point, Grand Lake, and Piedmont Ave (between Grand Lake & Temescal). International is rough - a lot of crime/prostitution happens there, though that far north it's much better than it is further south. I would look for something closer to Park Ave. if you want to stay in that general vicinity, though if you're used to being in a grittier neighborhood in Detroit, then you may find that neighborhood is fine for you.
Walking your dog at night is fine, but I would avoid walking alone late night. Regular rules of night time caution apply when alone - pay attention to your surroundings.
I haven't really witnessed any resentment toward people of any color moving in - my guess is there are just as many single black transplants to Oakland as white, and the neighborhoods I mentioned have already been gentrified.
I don't know much about Oakland, my expertise is San Francisco. However, you asked if crime in Oakland was improving...check out Oakland on City-Data. They have a chart from 1999 to 2009 with crime figures.
Murders were at a low in 1999 with 60 per 100,000. They reached a high in 2006 with 145 per 100,000. In 2009 there were 104 per 100,000. The crime rate has been declining each year since its high in 2006. I thought I read an article recently that said Oakland cut it's police force in half to fight debt, but I can't find that article now, so maybe I was just seeing things lol.
That neighborhood is rougher than some of its immediate neighbors, though better than the ones south of it. The crime map looks intimidating - when I first moved to Oakland it freaked me out - but the number of dots (though not overall rate) looks way worse in SF due to having larger numbers of people/crime, and I'd imagine much worse still for Detroit. It's really hard to gauge what those mean, and I'm a little dubious about their accuracy sometimes. Make sure you check out the Oakland police crime map at CrimeView Community Incident Map. I've realized since that what you see on the maps doesn't necessarily have as much to do with personal safety as you would think. I recently looked at a crime map for a snooty part of NYC that everyone thinks is safe, and it had two reported muggings and a rape within the previous week. Stuff just happens in cities.
That said, neighboring Ivy Hill and Cleveland Heights are better hoods, as are Adam's Point, Grand Lake, and Piedmont Ave (between Grand Lake & Temescal). International is rough - a lot of crime/prostitution happens there, though that far north it's much better than it is further south. I would look for something closer to Park Ave. if you want to stay in that general vicinity, though if you're used to being in a grittier neighborhood in Detroit, then you may find that neighborhood is fine for you.
Walking your dog at night is fine, but I would avoid walking alone late night. Regular rules of night time caution apply when alone - pay attention to your surroundings.
I haven't really witnessed any resentment toward people of any color moving in - my guess is there are just as many single black transplants to Oakland as white, and the neighborhoods I mentioned have already been gentrified.
^This
Also, would you rather be close to downtown or further away from it? There are lots of good and great neighborhoods outside of the downtown area... a general list would be:
Dimond
Glenview
Maxwell Park
Upper Temescal
Piedmont Ave
Rockridge
Fairview Park
Bella Vista
Reservoir Hills (above E. 27th St.)
Laurel
Embarcadero Cove
Eastmont Hills
Sheffield
Out of those, here are the ones that are within 10 minutes walking distance of a BART Station:
Rockridge
Piedmont Ave
Fairview Park
The ones within a 5 minute bus ride to a BART Station:
Dimond
Reservoir Hills
Upper Temescal
Fairview Park
The ones with the best views:
Maxwell Park
Glenview
Eastmont Hills
The ones with the largest amount of older housing stock (Victorians et al):
Bella Vista
Upper Temescal
Piedmont Ave
Fairview Park
Reservoir Hills
The ones with the most amenities (library, post office, etc.):
Rockridge
Piedmont Ave
Dimond
Laurel
Most ethnically diverse:
Dimond
Laurel
Bella Vista
Reservoir Hills
Upper Temescal
Most economically diverse:
Dimond
Upper Temescal
Piedmont Ave
and etc. etc. It just depends what you want out of a neighborhood... Pretty much any kind of neighborhood you can think of will be in Oakland.
The above didn't include any Oakland Hills neighborhoods either... contrary to popular belief you don't have to live up in the hills to have a nice lifestyle outside of downtown. Also contrary to popular belief, East Oakland is not a giant ghetto... many of the neighborhoods I suggested in the above list are in the east. Oakland is a city of neighborhoods... one can be radically different from the one that borders it.
When you become more acclimated to being here then you'll expand your comfort zone and find out that Oakland has a lot going for it, one of its greatest qualities being its cosmopolitanism. From Downtown to College Ave to Fruitvale & MacArthur to Piedmont Ave to Telegraph Ave by West Oakland you literally see everybody imaginable walking down these streets. Black, hispanic, asian, white, gay, straight, rich, wealthy, poor, etc. can all be spotted walking by each other on the streets and hanging out in the same neighborhoods, and many of the neighborhoods this occurs in aren't wealthy by a long shot. I can honestly seen I've never really seen that outside of Oakland... most bigger cities with a strong black or latino presence tend to be on the segregated side, especially when it gets dark. This is not true in Oakland. Take one of the restaurants Ultrarunner brought up (Fentons)... EVERYBODY is in there all day every day lol.
Another great quality of Oakland - especially now - is the restaurant scene. You can find anything under the sun here - Ethiopian, Mexican, Vietnamese, Chinese, Soul Food, Italian, French, Nigerian, El Salvadorean, etc. - and the vast majority of it is great. The great food isn't relegated to downtown or one or two specific neighborhoods either... some of the best food neighborhoods include:
The natural beauty in Oakland is nearly unparalleled anywhere else in the bay either with the exception of Marin County. Arguably the best views to be had in the Bay Area are from the Oakland Hills. Oakland has the East Bay's biggest Redwood Forest. Lake Merritt is the largest urban salt water lake in the nation and was the first national refuge in America. The lesser-known Lake Temescal is equally beautiful and the two creeks - Sausal Creek and Peralta Creek - that run through East Oakland offer a juxtaposition of urban and untouched nature. The weather is arguably the best in the nation. The architecture is easily the most varied and diverse in the Bay Area. It is easily the most racially diverse city in California with the only competition being Sacramento. Its Hip Hop music scene is arguably the largest on the West Coast and its arts scene is making headlines in national papers such as the Wall Street Journal.
Last but not least, Oakland has a dedicated sports community, particularly when it comes to football and basketball. The A's may not be an Oakland team next year... however, while they're still here (and there's a good chance that they'll stay here, especially if we build a new stadium) then this is the only city in the bay where you can catch all three major sports. And in Oakland, you're never too far away from SF if you want to spend time there... BART is a very fast and convenient way of getting there.
None of the above, however, is to diminish the impact of crime... if you choose to settle in one of Oakland's rougher neighborhoods then you are in for some of the most crime-ridden streets in America. However, if you follow the advice on this board and decide not to do that then many of the equivalently affluent and middle class neighborhoods in San Francisco are nowhere near as safe or clean as Oakland's.
I don't know much about Oakland, my expertise is San Francisco. However, you asked if crime in Oakland was improving...check out Oakland on City-Data. They have a chart from 1999 to 2009 with crime figures.
Murders were at a low in 1999 with 60 per 100,000. They reached a high in 2006 with 145 per 100,000. In 2009 there were 104 per 100,000. The crime rate has been declining each year since its high in 2006. I thought I read an article recently that said Oakland cut it's police force in half to fight debt, but I can't find that article now, so maybe I was just seeing things lol.
Uh... where did you get those murder rates again? Oakland is currently at 26/100,000. Oakland's highest murder count was 192 when it had a slightly higher population. That's only 48/100,000... idk where you're getting your numbers. EPA - the murder capital of America in 1992 - had an all-time high of 168/100,000... Oakland was never in the same league as DC/NOLA/Baltimore back in the 90's in terms of the murder ratae and still isn't. In terms of overall crime, Oakland is right up there with the "best" of them. However, crime in Oakland is easily avoided provided you're not in the rougher neighborhoods at night and the war-zone neighborhoods (Sobrante Park, Lockwood Gardens, Gaskill, Lower Bottoms, etc.) at all.
I occasionally visit friends in Brookfield/Sobrante at night... also, never a problem... I drive and you won't find my walking.
One word of caution. If you own a car, off street parking if always preferred... you won't have to deal with street sweeping schedules or careless night time drivers... a garage is even better...
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