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Old 05-04-2011, 07:08 PM
 
30,876 posts, read 36,858,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
The people are to blame if it passes, and as such will not be "more level headed"
That is how dictatorships arise. People vote away the rights of people they don't like or don't relate to and over the course of a few hundred years you end up with a dictatorship. I'm starting to see why a pure democracy is a bad idea.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:39 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,144,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
That is how dictatorships arise. People vote away the rights of people they don't like or don't relate to and over the course of a few hundred years you end up with a dictatorship. I'm starting to see why a pure democracy is a bad idea.
No political system by man is with out flaws. Even Hitler and the Nazi's got a plurality of a popular vote. A good subject indeed, voter ingnorance of industrial societies.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:50 PM
 
3,550 posts, read 2,550,805 times
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just some thing I wrote on another forum on this subject that everyone in in SF should know and therefore vote against this anti Semitic bill

here are 3 incidents that make me ask
if this was not religiously essential would so many risk their lives to circumcise their sons?

The Bluzhever Rebbe was a survivor of the Holocaust who had suffered in the camps throughout the war. During one particular brutal assignment of chopping wood, he overheard the Nazi's instructing all infants, children and mothers to line up. The Rebbe understood very well that this meant that they were next to be killed. Amidst the cries and moans of the mothers, the Rebbe heard a mother cry out, "A knife, a knife. I need a knife." The Rebbe thinking that it was a distraught woman who wanted to take her life, quickly ran over and tried calming her down. An S.S. officer who witnessed the scene, came over and hit the Rebbe over the head with his gun, knocking him down to the ground. Smiling, the officer proudly presented the woman with a knife. The Rebbe still in a daze, looked away, so as not to see what the lady was about to do. Surprisingly, he began to hear the lady talking in a very calm and controlled voice. He turned around and saw the lady place her infant on the ground, unbutton his clothing, and proclaim, "Hashem, you granted me this beautiful baby. Today, he is eight days old. I know that he will be returned to You very shortly. Let me at least return him to You as a Jew with a Bris." She then recited the blessing and circumcised her son, before the stunned Nazi.
__________________________________________________ ______________
The famous Mohel, Rav Zvi (Harry) Bronstein is a modern day example of incredible dedication to Brit Milah. Rav Bronstein traveled to the Soviet Union on his American passport and clandestinely performed large numbers of Brit Milah until the KGB caught him and placed him in a Soviet prison. The Soviets released him after he suffered a serious heart attack and American leaders pressured Premier Brezhnev for Rav Bronstein's release.
__________________________________________________ ______________

The Moskovitz family was blessed with a bouncing baby boy in 1975. It was a crime of state to have a bris openly in the USSR at that time. The penalty was severe - perhaps expulsion to a prison camp in Siberia - perhaps death. Anything was possible in those unstable days.
Many Jewish boys never received a bris. Some received a bris only as adults, after emigrating to Israel or the United States. A few dedicated souls were determined to bravely perform the bris on their babies in the USSR. The Moskovitz family was among the few and the brave.
Moshe Moskovitz knew that this would involve a complex clandestine operation - one that could not be completed in eight days, but would take months. First he had to scout a suitable secret location. Then he had to assemble a team. Of course the key man of this team was the mohel. A mohel is a religious Jewish man, extensively trained in the operation of Jewish ritual circumcision.
The rest of the team consisted of eight men who would round out a minyan of men so that a quorum is present at the event. This was not as easy as it may sound. All of the men had to be willing to participate knowing the grave risk if caught by the police.
Further these men had to be trusted not to inform to the KGB. There were Jews who would report other Jews in order to gain favor with the authorities. In fact, the KGB would plant spies in Jewish synagogues. Moshe had to be sure that the people he was enlisting were not spies or informers. Whom could he trust? Perhaps more importantly whom couldn't he trust?
Finally, after ten arduous months, all the pieces were in place. The men assembled as planned and the bris was performed and the appropriate prayers were recited. Only these ten men were present. No other guests - not even the baby's mother was there. The risk of arousing suspicion was too great.
The men quietly left that site, making sure there was no evidence remaining of what had transpired. Everyone inconspicuously went their own way.
Moshe returned home to his wife who was understandably anxious. He handed her the newly circumcised baby whom she took to the next room to place him in his crib. Soon Moshe heard a thud. His heart froze. What could that be?
He ran in to the room to find his wife passed out on the floor. Upon being revived, she explained the following: "I was afraid that due to the difficulties of performing a bris here in USSR, we would keep pushing it off, become lax and let it drag out for years, or even never give our son a Jewish bris. Therefore I took an oath not to kiss my baby until after he had his bris. This way I would be super motivated to stay strong in my resolve to have the bris as soon as humanly possible."
Quivering with emotion, she tearfully added, "When I kissed my son for the first time, the feeling was so overwhelming, that I fainted."


do you still think this is a good bill?
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