Police and firemen stand by and watch man drown in the bay after treading water for an hour (San Diego: transplants, dangerous)

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

I'll address this. It's quite simple. I'm a decent human with a spine that runs up my back. If I see another human about to die I'm going to save that person if I have even a small chance of doing so. After I do that I'll worry about anything else. I'm hardly alone.

Is that simple enough?

And if you get injured, lose your job and leave your family without a breadwinner because you violated procedures and were injured.
Everyone talks big, how many people have you saved???

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by Boompa

And if you get injured, lose your job and leave your family without a breadwinner because you violated procedures and were injured.
Everyone talks big, how many people have you saved???

I'm not sure what I said could be considered "talking big". For most of the population, what I said was quite normal. Maybe my lengthy time in the Army just gives me a different perspective than what you have. I have no idea what sort of values you were brought up with. There are quite a few people with spine out there. I dare say people who share your views are well in the minority. I'm fairly certain we'd still be part of England, or speaking German, or Russian, etc., if the only thing most people thought about was losing a job or getting hurt.

But really, if you were watching someone die, is that what you would have on your mind? You'd be thinking of losing your job? Would you really? I suspect you're just being argumentative and couldn't do this yourself.

[Phil306]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

I'm not sure what I said could be considered "talking big". For most of the population, what I said was quite normal. Maybe my lengthy time in the Army just gives me a different perspective than what you have. I have no idea what sort of values you were brought up with. There are quite a few people with spine out there. I dare say people who share your views are well in the minority. I'm fairly certain we'd still be part of England, or speaking German, or Russian, etc., if the only thing most people thought about was losing a job or getting hurt.

But really, if you were watching someone die, is that what you would have on your mind? You'd be thinking of losing your job? Would you really? I suspect you're just being argumentative and couldn't do this yourself.

"Values" are very nice for you. You sit at home, in your chair, with a few martini's, nice and warm. You can read, digest, listen to opinion's, etc and then make comments.

Those men/women cannot. Values aren't the issue to them. You see, there are two sides to every story. You can say all you want: YOU AREN'T THERE. Nor is anyone else. Your "Army" service, while appreciated, isn't an issue here. In fact, its moot and worthless. You don't get sued as a soldier, in YOUR society. A firefighter and a police officer, get sued EVERYDAY, in YOUR society.

What if that firefighter went and tried to save that person. And he/she was trapped. Causing TWO persons to be rescued. Now, not only do you have the first, now you have TWO persons who need rescuing. Making the rescue that much more of an issue.

I could sit here, for DAYS and spell out issues where you, and others, are complete and total moron's to the facts. You won't listen, nor care. You "think" your worthless, two bit, opinions are the "facts."

YOU and others are "pogues and REMF's." Its easy to say what to do. But you don't do it. If it were so easy and these "public servants" made so much money and grow fat on pensions, get YOUR fat ass out there and do the job. You won't and neither will anyone else.

You will whine and moan. About, "what should have been done." Without knowing all the facts. People such as you make me sick.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Phil306

"Values" are very nice for you. You sit at home, in your chair, with a few martini's, nice and warm. You can read, digest, listen to opinion's, etc and then make comments.

..You will whine and moan. About, "what should have been done." Without knowing all the facts. People such as you make me sick

..I could sit here, for DAYS and spell out issues where you, and others, are complete and total moron's to the facts. You won't listen, nor care. You "think" your worthless, two bit, opinions are the "facts."

What's funny is you do the EXACT same thing on here with your angry, usually politically charged rants. Seriously, take a look in the mirror before you call out others for the exact same crap you do.

What if that firefighter went and tried to save that person. And he/she was trapped. Causing TWO persons to be rescued. Now, not only do you have the first, now you have TWO persons who need rescuing. Making the rescue that much more of an issue.

And what if they had rescued that person? They be hailed as a hero and there are plenty of instances of firefighters and police officers going above and beyond the call of duty. I don't know why some of you people treat this incident likes it's normal and routine, if it was then it would have never made the national headlines it did.

What if your wife, child, or loved one was out there and firefighters and police officers just watched them drown? Would you honestly feel the same way? I'd be willing to bet you, Boompa, and others defending this pathetic act wouldn't be as forgiving if it affected you personally.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by Phil306

"Values" are very nice for you. You sit at home, in your chair, with a few martini's, nice and warm. You can read, digest, listen to opinion's, etc and then make comments.

Those men/women cannot. Values aren't the issue to them. You see, there are two sides to every story. You can say all you want: YOU AREN'T THERE. Nor is anyone else. Your "Army" service, while appreciated, isn't an issue here. In fact, its moot and worthless. You don't get sued as a soldier, in YOUR society. A firefighter and a police officer, get sued EVERYDAY, in YOUR society.

What if that firefighter went and tried to save that person. And he/she was trapped. Causing TWO persons to be rescued. Now, not only do you have the first, now you have TWO persons who need rescuing. Making the rescue that much more of an issue.

I could sit here, for DAYS and spell out issues where you, and others, are complete and total moron's to the facts. You won't listen, nor care. You "think" your worthless, two bit, opinions are the "facts."

YOU and others are "pogues and REMF's." Its easy to say what to do. But you don't do it. If it were so easy and these "public servants" made so much money and grow fat on pensions, get YOUR fat ass out there and do the job. You won't and neither will anyone else.

You will whine and moan. About, "what should have been done." Without knowing all the facts. People such as you make me sick.

You just gave what is perhaps one of the most lengthy justifications for being a coward that I have ever read. Nicely done. As the poster above stated, it made national news for a reason. Alameda is changing its policy for a reason. It's not because it all makes sense.

[garfieldlover]

Who gives a damn if the firefighter or police got fired after rescuing the guy? They would have been hired the next day by another police department in another town with triple the pay and a promotion so don't give us that crap about police worrying about getting sued or losing their job.

[CarawayDJ]

I must concede that I have been too harsh in singling out the police officers. Before the guy actually died there were police officers, firefighters, AND coast guard personnel observing. Oh, and also around 75 spectators! It ended up being a 20-year old woman who pulled the guy out. That's probably more an indictment on our society than it is anything else. I'm not sure how the Coast Guard is escaping scrutiny. I realize they couldn't bring a boat in because the guy was in shallow water just standing there, but still.... And were all of the spectators afraid of being sued or fired?

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Before the guy actually died there were police officers, firefighters, AND coast guard personnel observing. Oh, and also around 75 spectators! It ended up being a 20-year old woman who pulled the guy out.

Great display of bay area values! Any chance that the woman was someone from out of state with some humanity still left?

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by andyadhi01

Great display of bay area values! Any chance that the woman was someone from out of state with some humanity still left?

I'd hate to make an indictment on a whole area like that, but that is an interesting question. Would something like that happen in Montana for instance?

And for those who excuse the folks for fear of being injured, here is an excerpt from the local ABC station up there...

"Alameda firefighters could not even go into the water to get the body, so they waited until a woman in her 20s volunteered to bring the body back to the beach."

Think about that one for a moment.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by garfieldlover

Who gives a damn if the firefighter or police got fired after rescuing the guy? They would have been hired the next day by another police department in another town with triple the pay and a promotion so don't give us that crap about police worrying about getting sued or losing their job.

Exactly, there would have been public outrage if a firefighter or officer was fired for rescuing someone in the water and that person would have easily been reinstated or found a job elsewhere.