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You wouldn't even know that there were any protests or riots in Rockridge, and I expect it's the same in your own neighborhood, Ultrarunner. Your co-workers are being dumb. I could see not wanting to be downtown, but wanting to stay completely out of Oakland is stupid.
This is kind of my point... the reality doesn't match people's perception... but perception is what rules the day...
I had the same reaction most of my life when people learn I live in Oakland... sometimes it almost went away during the real estate boom and now with the media coverage it is as bad as ever...
I lived through the Panthers, Hells Angels, King assassination, Patty Hearst, the assassination of Marcus Foster, the Warriors Championship Riots, Oscar Grant and now Occupy... I will survive...
The sad part is some of those have expressed true fear and they are not putting on a show...
Doesn't matter if they live in Castro Valley, Danville, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, Orinda, Lafayette, just about all of Marin or San Mateo... the perception, I'm afraid is here to stay.
I remember neighbors leaving Oakland for San Leandro and later moving to Castro Valley and now they live in Pleasanton...
Several very nice retirement communities in Oakland have relocated in recent years... it had nothing to do with amenities or care provided... nothing to do with the satisfaction of the the residents...
The one and only real reason is the children of the residents simply didn't want anything to do with Oakland...
Look how many of the large companies like Safeway that started here have left... it had nothing to do with space or amenities... it had everything to do with people wanted to distance themselves.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 11-07-2011 at 10:09 PM..
OWS is precisely about "supporting mom-n-pop" ... exactly. It isn't "anti-everything" in the slightest ... it is, precisely, anti sociopathic business practices ... precisely because unregulated corporate giants and investment culture destroy the promise this nation has always held for independent endeavor and what that means for a free citizenry.
Corporations are NOT people -- they are a protective facade permitting individuals to operate with limited exposure and limited personal responsibility. If they have a place in our society, it must be a very highly regulated one with intense oversight. The lack of this reality is one of the two foundations of the failure we are going through as an economy and society.
And it isn't "my" movement ... it is the peoples' movement.
Protests would be effective if you're expressing your discontent directly to the parties that have the ability to implement the changes that you seek. It works even better when you have some leverage against those parties. But what is Quan or anyone else in Oakland going to do for you? They don't even have the ability to grant you what you seek. What do you want them to do, outlaw corporations and right the wrongs of capitalism? You should at least be protesting in Washington DC. Your most likely outcome with these tactics will be to further damage the reputation of Oakland and to further disperse whatever economic activity there would have been at the local level - thus ironically increasing inequality in your community, not decreasing it. You can call it "collateral damage", but the person you will be directly damaging will be yourself.
This is kind of my point... the reality doesn't match people's perception... but perception is what rules the day...
The perception of outsiders should not stop us from trying to promote the reality of things, and in this case, the reality is that OCCUPY Oakland has totally unaffected the vast majority of us.
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I had the same reaction most of my life when people learn I live in Oakland... sometimes it almost went away during the real estate boom and now with the media coverage it is as bad as ever...
What else is new? If people based all decisions on media coverage, Oakland wouldnt have the restaurants it has, it wouldnt have the resurgent downtown it has, it wouldnt be attracting the very high quantity of high income households it has.
People looking for Pleasanton or Danville are probably not going to want Oakland-but people looking for a West Coast equivalent to Park Slope, Brooklyn or a NorCal equivalent to Los Feliz just might.
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The sad part is some of those have expressed true fear and they are not putting on a show...
Doesn't matter if they live in Castro Valley, Danville, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, Orinda, Lafayette, just about all of Marin or San Mateo... the perception, I'm afraid is here to stay.
I remember neighbors leaving Oakland for San Leandro and later moving to Castro Valley and now they live in Pleasanton..
I refuse to spend much time trying to make people who wont give us a change feel better about our city.
Especially since there are plenty of people of equal or even greater means and sophistication that are beating down the door to be in Oakland.
If the economy falls to a minimum and will be real to return all the production in the united states from countries with low labour costs? Debt obligations of the U.S. cause no enthusiasm, sooner or later the usual level of life would be is fail then to the streets out those who now sits in the restaurant, and those who are on the street today will be in prison. This shearing sheep. Isn't there?
Whenever something is called "the people's," it is usually something bad, and usually quite the opposite of being the people's.
Pretty vague generalization there ... example's? Oh you're talking about Peoples' Republic of China? etc ... phbbbbt.
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Originally Posted by ambient
Protests would be effective if you're expressing your discontent directly to the parties that have the ability to implement the changes that you seek. It works even better when you have some leverage against those parties. But what is Quan or anyone else in Oakland going to do for you? They don't even have the ability to grant you what you seek. What do you want them to do, outlaw corporations and right the wrongs of capitalism? You should at least be protesting in Washington DC. Your most likely outcome with these tactics will be to further damage the reputation of Oakland and to further disperse whatever economic activity there would have been at the local level - thus ironically increasing inequality in your community, not decreasing it. You can call it "collateral damage", but the person you will be directly damaging will be yourself.
I am somewhat amused at the personalizing of this OWS to me, a contributor to C D forums. Gee, makes me feel young again
I'll set the record straight: I am a retired guy who lives in a van some of the time prowling / camping the forests and mountains and shores of the NW and California -- occasionally into the cities for short visits to old friends ... and part time on boats in the same states and Hawaii. As such, I am an observer at this point in life mostly. That said, I grew up intensely immersed in the civil rights and modern labor movements. I shared meals as a boy with Martin Luther King and many other leaders of social change of the day in my home. My family, and I personally, were threatened with fire bombing of our home, being shot and lynched. A few family friends actually were shot. I grew up in this and joined the military and went to Vietnam -- while my sisters and parents opposed and protested that war. I returned anti-war but was conflicted by my sense of loyalty to my "brother's in arms". I know intimately the pain and upheavals that social change causes. It is always regrettable to see damage to good people that occurs associated with evolutionary growth. I don't think it is "okay". I simply recognize that change comes with a lot of cost and disruption.
I don't know if OWS will rise to the level of the civil rights movement or other similar. But it might. The issues have the capacity. And they are that important. If our country is to remain a truly free society we must go through some upheaval re-establishing our principles and resetting our course. The oligarchy has over reached. The pain and losses along the way are part of the change. Our country is at risk. We fought for equal rights in the past. That is how the country was formed. It is how the country grew and became great. It is rotting from within now and on a path to neo-feudalism. Protect your local businesses as best you can -- but protect them most importantly in the long haul by insuring American individualism. That is what is totally at risk.
Simply marching on Washington and in front of Wall St alone will not be sufficient. The notion that the root of the problem is in Washington, D.C. is misguided. Washington works for the problem -- is employed by the problem. The problem's roots are dispersed and hidden and wide ranging -- much like blackberry bush roots. Ever try to kill / contain / control blackberries? Sure, we all like the fruit, but the plant will choke the life out of everything around and overwhelm with impenetrable tangle and vicious thorns. You are all being strangled by your love of trinkets offered to appease you. Overcoming the culture of greed will be a consuming, and at least figuratively bloody task.
No need for blood. Should the number of domination over the forces of the army and police. Controlled chaos is not on the streets but in the congress.In this regard, I understand that the revolution a few years.. thanks. I am going.
All I got from that long soliloquy was another non-Oaklander who is perfectly fine with Oakland being trashed due to their own self-serving interest, and consider residents and business-owners of the town nothing more than "collateral damage" who should be happy someone is out there fighting for them.
All I got from that long soliloquy was another non-Oaklander who is perfectly fine with Oakland being trashed due to their own self-serving interest, and consider residents and business-owners of the town nothing more than "collateral damage" who should be happy someone is out there fighting for them.
I'm not usually a Chip Johnson fan, but this article is spot on, particularly regarding the usual dissension among the city council ranks. I thought this comment on the article was very interesting, too:
MaxAllstadt
11:55 PM on November 7, 2011
Last night, at the Occupy Oakland General Assembly, one woman got up to make a plea for pacifist, vandalism free protest. She was jeered. She was surrounded by angry people and intimidated and harangued about "diversity of tactics", which is anarchist double-speak for "it's OK to break other people's stuff".
Monday night at the Occupy Oakland General Assembly, a guy proposed depositing a $20000 gift from Occupy Wall Street into a WELLS FARGO ACCOUNT. There were no vocal objections. No debate. No furor. Over 100 people voted yes, fewer than 10 voted no.
The people at the camp don't even believe in their own goals anymore, or they're too busy being angry to remember their goals. When will this end? I've had enough.
All I got from that long soliloquy was another non-Oaklander who is perfectly fine with Oakland being trashed due to their own self-serving interest, and consider residents and business-owners of the town nothing more than "collateral damage" who should be happy someone is out there fighting for them.
No one, particularly not me, has said it is fine to trash Oakland ... further, I have repeatedly said it is not okay ... I deplore it ... and what, exactly, would be my "self-serving interest"? If you actually read my "long soliloquy" with any attempt at comprehension, you'd understand I don't have any dog in this fight other than a patriotic hope for America. You also equate collateral damage with diminution by using the phrase "nothing more" ... collateral damage is very serious. And so is the damage to America from an ever expanding oligarchic domination -- far worse than any collateral damage in Oakland or anywhere else combined.
In today's military strikes overseas great precision is executed to make surgically precise actions. It was not so when I served in combat air strikes. The squadrons I crewed with simply obliterated everything in sight of the downed pilots or trapped troops we were assisting by clearing landing zones for choppers. That resulted in disastrously serious collateral damage at times. I still dream of it and regret it deeply. Show me, and all America, how to advance the critical message of OWS surgically. I'll be among the first to promote it. I am sure you can improve on the situation. Get busy. But, do not stop to even catch your breath for one minute.
Most of those folks out there are at least out there -- if short on creative expertise to do a better job. It is a job that needs doing. Don't allow your anger at the collateral obscure the critical mission.
I am not against the occupy people as a whole, but i do not like their tactics or even understand their logic. They a protesting against the top 1% or anybody they perceive as the top 1%. Case in point the guy with the Benz who ran over the protester im sure they are going to say he was a 1% because of the car he was driving. All the protestorss then should head on over to Lockwood Gardens, or Acorns, or Campbell Village and check out all the fine Lexus's, Benz's and BMW's they have sitting around there. You want to chalenge greed go protest to the cartels in mexico who kill thousands, go protest the gang bangers on the corn who pay no taxes and can buy your freeking house cash with no problem.
I digress however. What i fail to understand is the value of destroying a city that is already down on its luck. Go burn down San Jose, they have a majority of the high profit earning business in the area. Or how about San Francisco a symbol of America and, by their logic our greed. Hell the city was settled on greed, people coming west in search of riches. To destroy Oakland however is counter productive. Oakland she be the city they hold up and say this is why we need to fix inequality. A city as beautiful and unique as Oakland is downtrodden due to a false reputation and the interests of other more glamorous and wealthy locations.
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