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I don't side with banks, and I actually think that the growing wealth gap is a serious problem that requires fixing - just not the brute force redistribution kind that it seems many people want. And I think that while the angry mob accurately identifies the symptoms of the problems, their ability to intelligently diagnose and remedy the situation into a state of better balance is woefully poor. I don't want to swing from one extreme to the other, because I think neither is good for society. But these kinds of subtleties generally fall on deaf ears in times like this.
I don't side with banks, and I actually think that the growing wealth gap is a serious problem that requires fixing - just not the brute force redistribution kind that it seems many people want. And I think that while the angry mob accurately identifies the symptoms of the problems, their ability to intelligently diagnose and remedy the situation into a state of better balance is woefully poor. I don't want to swing from one extreme to the other, because I think neither is good for society. But these kinds of subtleties generally fall on deaf ears in times like this.
What do you mean fall on deaf ears? BOFA reversed their $5 dollar fee's and all the other banks thinking of doing it did the same out of fear of backlash and losing customers. Also over a million people have taken their money out of banks and gone with Credit Unions.
Really? The "people" include a growing number of participants by the day ... and those not participating are becoming more and more aware of the depths of the problems being protested. And further: just what are the "people" going to do to stop free speech and assembly? The more it is challenged, the stronger it grows.
Nobody has stopped free speech or assembly, so I'm not sure what yo're getting at.
Changing mindsets change policies over time. Hell, even the congressional GOP this week has put forth a few token offers to consider tax revenues as part of solving the deficit problem. Unthinkable even a few weeks ago. Bank of America rescinded its silly $5 a month debit card fee. Just two little hints of real concessions and changes to come. Behind closed government, banking, investment, and corporate doors all around the world already plans are being recast to account for the changing public attitudes.
BofA rescinded the 5 dollar fee because consumers closed their accounts and moved to credit unions. Not because someone in Oakland is camping in a plaza.
Camping in parks is an extreme show of force developing. It is inconvenient and troublesome and expensive to contain -- and it is growing. It is a public nightmare. You think no one behind those doors is watching?
Extreme show of force? I guess, but it's backfiring, since, as the link I posted to suggested, support for it is waning
It is but one tactic. It probably won't be a primary tactic for more than a year, at most ... maybe through the winter ... then again, maybe longer.
You're right, it is but one tactic, and not a very good one.
You're talking theory ... reality is what you also stated yourself: most people vote D or R ... they do so because they are conditioned and that is what is sold them by the very money being challenged in the emerging class war. And there are no credible independent candidates. It takes support in a bazillion unseen ways to be not only elected, but successful in the offices. Right now that support is corporate money controlled by the 1% and their mercenaries.
There is virtually zero leverage against this neo-feudal corporate environment of control now -- except: loss of civil control. Advocate violent overthrow? Revolution? Me? Nah. That happened in the middle east, though. People can get that fired up. We're working on it here. But no, the shift will slowly turn. And those in power will remain in power -- but with a bit less arrogant greed. Just enough less to allow the rest of us to pursue our lives without being completely strangled.
People in the middle east lived under oppressive dictatorships. Here in the U.S we have a democracy. The two situations aren't comparable. If people are so fed up with the system, why aren't they voting for other parties? If people can't even be bothered to vote for a different party, what makes you think they'll do anything more?
What sources are you listening to? If you haven't heard the issues you can't grasp the goals. If you care about the threats to your democracy and freedom and opportunity, you need to get past the video clips and sound-bites of the major media who are simply in the same business as Wall St.
I've heard what it's about - what I want to hear is the platform of OWS - what specific changes do they want taken to address this issue? And how does camping in a park and causing a public nuisance achieve those specific changes?
The efficacy of our democracy is what is justifiably being called into question.
We have consistently had to choose between bad and worse in our attempts to rectify obvious injustices by using the vote, due in no small part to the moneyed elite pulling the strings of elected officials. In order to take back our democracy, "for the people, by the people", this issue of Wall Street and the 1% lobbying and buying our government needs to be addressed en masse.
Maybe that should be the #1 goal of OWS: Get Big Money Out of Politics.
Gotta love the Chronicle. Remember why #occupyoakland was all over the front page like there was no other news?
#occupybanks disappeared in a flash. Occupy SF protesters storm Bank of America (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/11/16/state/n145815S30.DTL - broken link)
Image from twitter: https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ya...341888/photo/1
This story isn't even linked on the home page anymore. By the time I read it, it disappeared. But Occupy Cal and "students" marching still remain front page news.
Gotta love the Chronicle. Remember why #occupyoakland was all over the front page like there was no other news?
#occupybanks disappeared in a flash. Occupy SF protesters storm Bank of America (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/11/16/state/n145815S30.DTL - broken link)
Image from twitter: https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ya...341888/photo/1
This story isn't even linked on the home page anymore. By the time I read it, it disappeared. But Occupy Cal and "students" marching still remain front page news.
Jobless hippy retards and ungrateful liberal clowns from Berkeley .. about sums up the OWS in California... Thank god I choose to live in southbay far removed from these rejects. Can't imagine having to go to work and make my way through this foolishness...
Some of the highest taxes in the country to pay for some of the most lavish handouts including the cheapest college tuition rates and people are still but hurt .. Read an article on sfgate about some clown saying he left Berkeley to go to a community college in SF because he couldn't pay the $12,xxx tuition .. That's what a job/college loans are for you moron.. and, if he was really that poor, financial aid would have covered it.
Meanwhile, I note from my school :
Proposed Cost of 2011-12 Academic Year
Expense Resident Commuter
Tuition $43,160 $43,160
Fees $850 $850
Room and Board $11,110 N/A
Books/Miscellaneous $2,400 (estimate) $2,400 (estimate)
Transportation variable $640 (estimate)
Total $57,520 $47,050
I took one class over the summer that cost me $5,000 .. If you are truly poor, financial aid floods cash at your door .. I dunno, I just feel this movement is composed of a bunch of but hurt clowns looking for a handout and they are achieving nothing in way of change as govt. is at the core of all of this sh*t and they aren't protesting them a bit...
Govt. waste of tax dollars is what causes tuition to soar in cali colleges
Govt. bailed out wallstreet for trillions
Govt. govt. govt. .. yet, their solution is to annoy and terrorize people going to work everyday to try to get by ..
jackwagons .. Cali especially SF has more of them than anywhere.
B.T.W - federal debt just crossed $15 trillion today..
$15,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOOBAMA! - It's Official: Total US Debt Passes $15 Trillion
total US debt has increased by 41.5%, or $4.4 trillion, from $10,626,877,048,913 on January 20, to $15,033,607,255,920, under Obama as president.
Going the way of Greece by the day..
I wonder at what point (if these fools get their way) will people just start going Galt and live off of what they have already made in a scaled down living factor.. I know that's my plan for 2012 .. california exit .. for 1-2 years (full academic/venture focus) .. slowly drain my 401k to have minimal tax impact (one of the tax shelters I used while in calif.)
The above commentary brought to us all by a 25-year-old kid just 2 years out of college who has never contributed one thing to the society that he was blessed to be born into and who has never said one single complimentary or patriotic or prideful thing about his country ... and who can't ever refer to any of his fellow citizens as anything but "stupid, ignorant, idiots, jackwagons, morons," etc and who does nothing but worship money and advises finding ways to screw the state he lives in out of taxes ... Yeah, a much better class of citizen than the protestors ... who include, btw, many former military and people twice his age who have contributed to family and community for more years than he has been alive.
We're all waiting for your next encyclopedic tome of deep wisdom, kid.
The above commentary brought to us all by a 25-year-old kid just 2 years out of college who has never contributed one thing to the society that he was blessed to be born into and who has never said one single complimentary or patriotic or prideful thing about his country ... and who can't ever refer to any of his fellow citizens as anything but "stupid, ignorant, idiots, jackwagons, morons," etc and who does nothing but worship money and advises finding ways to screw the state he lives in out of taxes ... Yeah, a much better class of citizen than the protestors ... who include, btw, many former military and people twice his age who have contributed to family and community for more years than he has been alive.
We're all waiting for your next encyclopedic tome of deep wisdom, kid.
The above brought to you by none other than nullgeo who likes to ride my D*** no matter where I go.
As for me, yeah, I am a 25 year old African American who comes from a family where myself and my brother were one of the first to go to college.. Neither of my parents had a college degree. My dad worked 3-4 jobs. My mom 2 .. Grandma instilled values in my .. My dad taught me the lessons of a hard knock life. Did labor.. worked in Florida's 100* heat cutting yards (something liberal uppity Californians would never get caught doing .. that's work reserved for those illegal immigrants they love soo much aka slaves).. Worked my ass off working 2-3 jobs during college (Worked in IT, was a TA, and worked as a research lab assistant) .. Worked every summer during college .. sorry no vacation.. Applied for every scholarship i could while other students were whacking off.. Switched from Architecture to computer engineering because i was focused on being able to pay the bills.. Graduated.. didn't own a bed for 2-3 years after I did because I didn't have the money to pay $2k on a bed.. live shacked up w/ another couple of college students to reduce rent.. don't have cable ... Drive a honda civic .. because I had to focus on paying off my college debt because I know what interest is .. had $1,000 in the bank after my first year out because i was focused on paying down debt .. slept on a foam mattress pad.. focused on saving money after that and investing as my smart father instructed me to do : SON don't go out pissing your money away when you're young.. focus on investing and making your money work for you.. that's how the people who live good on the beach do it (what was referred to as the people on the other side of the train tracks) .. So, I've focused on education, being productive, saving money .. being a responsible young adult .. and have saved up enough to take risk on a venture while not waiting around for some racist VC firm in the valley to recognize my vision.. Recognize its stupid to try to afford living in CA .. and for that I am some upitty spoiled brat who is focused on money in null's eyes.. Nah', I'm the lifeblood of America .. The kind of person these myopic clowns protesting up and down the streets are against.. The come up story made largely possible by the capitalistic system these clowns want to destroy and disrupt by hanging their jobless smelly a$$es around on the streets all day.
I'll re-post this again instead
because some people just love their lives as d***heasd. You don't see this crap in southbay because some people actually have to work to put food on the table and pay bills.
Where were all these rejects when california was being ran in the ground every year w/ billions of dollars of deficits ? oh yeah, they were out spelling the f*ckn roses voting for every stupid expenditure they could while snubbing their noses up at the rest of america saying.. In liberal happy land, we can tax and spend our way to fantasy .. Where were these clowns when everyone was partying it up at the obvious absurdity of the housing bubble? Where were the protest then when all that silly money was funding mall expansions.. retail store bonanzas that made your avg. young idiot feel like they could like a life like the bums on clerks and have a middle class lifestyle?
It's all gone.. the magic fantasy is gone.. It was an illusion of prosperity that should have never occurred.. It was made possible by everyone.. j6p who bought more than he could afford, j6p smarta$$ mortgage peddler (the street dealer), wallstreet (the distributor), govt (the enabler) .. there is a whole big ass list of people to blame.. but everyone wants to point at the guy in the suit? The avg. kid I went to school w/ who lives in my apt... who has to go to work everyday at these people harassing him who like me only is trying to make a buck and afford a home .. who lives w/o cable.. who lives w/o a tv .. who lives no better than any avg. american.. because he is focused on saving to be able to afford something the hard way..
Yeah, I use the language I use because I think these people are morons ..
I sometimes wish these people would get what they are demanding and I wake up to markets being $0 and hundreds of trillions of dollars are wiped out the world over...
Pensions wiped out.. 401ks wiped out.. Social security wiped out.. tax revenue wiped out .. home prices dropped by 50-60% .. all the idiot retail consumerist nonsense destroyed and 100s of thousands left unemployed by the ridiculous spending habits of the people who could least afford it .. and we are all equals living out of tents smelling each other's farts..
I bet even then someone is going to want to 'occupy' because someone has a better tent than them .. F*ck outta here man.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 11-16-2011 at 06:21 PM..
The above brought to you by none other than nullgeo who likes to ride my D*** no matter where I go.
As for me, yeah, I am a 25 year old African American who comes from a family where myself and my brother were one of the first to go to college.. Neither of my parents had a college degree. My dad worked 3-4 jobs. My mom 2 .. Grandma instilled values in my .. My dad taught me the lessons of a hard knock life. Did labor.. worked in Florida's 100* heat cutting yards (something liberal uppity Californians would never get caught doing .. that's work reserved for those illegal immigrants they love soo much aka slaves).. Worked my ass off working 2-3 jobs during college (Worked in IT, was a TA, and worked as a research lab assistant) .. Worked every summer during college .. sorry no vacation.. Applied for every scholarship i could while other students were whacking off.. Switched from Architecture to computer engineering because i was focused on being able to pay the bills.. Graduated.. didn't own a bed for 2-3 years after I did because I didn't have the money to pay $2k on a bed.. live shacked up w/ another couple of college students to reduce rent.. don't have cable ... Drive a honda civic .. because I had to focus on paying off my college debt because I know what interest is .. had $1,000 in the bank after my first year out because i was focused on paying down debt .. slept on a foam mattress pad.. focused on saving money after that and investing as my smart father instructed me to do : SON don't go out pissing your money away when you're young.. focus on investing and making your money work for you.. that's how the people who live good on the beach do it (what was referred to as the people on the other side of the train tracks) .. So, I've focused on education, being productive, saving money .. being a responsible young adult .. and have saved up enough to take risk on a venture while not waiting around for some racist VC firm in the valley to recognize my vision.. Recognize its stupid to try to afford living in CA .. and for that I am some upitty spoiled brat who is focused on money in null's eyes.. Nah', I'm the lifeblood of America .. The kind of person these myopic clowns protesting up and down the streets are against.. The come up story made largely possible by the capitalistic system these clowns want to destroy and disrupt by hanging their jobless smelly a$$es around on the streets all day.
I'll re-post this again instead
because some people just love their lives as d***heasd. You don't see this crap in southbay because some people actually have to work to put food on the table and pay bills.
Where were all these rejects when california was being ran in the ground every year w/ billions of dollars of deficits ? oh yeah, they were out spelling the f*ckn roses voting for every stupid expenditure they could while snubbing their noses up at the rest of america saying.. In liberal happy land, we can tax and spend our way to fantasy .. Where were these clowns when everyone was partying it up at the obvious absurdity of the housing bubble? Where were the protest then when all that silly money was funding mall expansions.. retail store bonanzas that made your avg. young idiot feel like they could like a life like the bums on clerks and have a middle class lifestyle?
It's all gone.. the magic fantasy is gone.. It was an illusion of prosperity that should have never occurred.. It was made possible by everyone.. j6p who bought more than he could afford, j6p smarta$$ mortgage peddler (the street dealer), wallstreet (the distributor), govt (the enabler) .. there is a whole big ass list of people to blame.. but everyone wants to point at the guy in the suit? The avg. kid I went to school w/ who lives in my apt... who has to go to work everyday at these people harassing him who like me only is trying to make a buck and afford a home .. who lives w/o cable.. who lives w/o a tv .. who lives no better than any avg. american.. because he is focused on saving to be able to afford something the hard way..
Yeah, I use the language I use because I think these people are morons ..
I sometimes wish these people would get what they are demanding and I wake up to markets being $0 and hundreds of trillions of dollars are wiped out the world over...
Pensions wiped out.. 401ks wiped out.. Social security wiped out.. tax revenue wiped out .. home prices dropped by 50-60% .. all the idiot retail consumerist nonsense destroyed and 100s of thousands left unemployed by the ridiculous spending habits of the people who could least afford it .. and we are all equals living out of tents smelling each other's farts..
I bet even then someone is going to want to 'occupy' because someone has a better tent than them .. F*ck outta here man.
... And you think nobody has to do that in the East Bay? And more to the point, what do you think Occupy San Jose is about?
Proposed Cost of 2011-12 Academic Year
Expense Resident Commuter
Tuition $43,160 $43,160
Fees $850 $850
Room and Board $11,110 N/A
Books/Miscellaneous $2,400 (estimate) $2,400 (estimate)
Transportation variable $640 (estimate)
Total $57,520 $47,050
You went to private school. Private schools give out far more financial aid than public ones. I went to Berkeley. My brother went to Northwestern. I have more student loan debt than he does by about $4000.
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